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[In Exile]

Er, are those people who are insisting that life in the Circles is akin to being an indentured servant getting confused with what happened to the mages after Fiona sold them out to Tevinter ?

 

Alexius specifically states that they were recruited at great cost and will become citizens of Tevinter after that cost has been repaid - leading to Fiona finally questioning what she did when Alexius does not care about women and children being indentured.

 

Because life in the circles is nothing like that.

 

Alexius was not being serious when he said the line about becoming citizens - you can hear it in his tone; he's basically mocking you about it. Not that this wasn't the terms of their original deal; I'm sure that was part of the terms. The parallel comes from the fact that under the Circle their comfort depended on the magnanimity of the Chantry and now it depends on the magnanimity of Tevinter. 

[Lord Raijin]

Er, are those people who are insisting that life in the Circles is akin to being an indentured servant getting confused with what happened to the mages after Fiona sold them out to Tevinter ?

 

Alexius specifically states that they were recruited at great cost and will become citizens of Tevinter after that cost has been repaid - leading to Fiona finally questioning what she did when Alexius does not care about women and children being indentured.

 

Because life in the circles is nothing like that.

 

Alexius wasn't telling the truth when he mention about the rebel mages becoming regular citizens of Tevinter. He was merely trying to find mages to recruit for the Venatori military by taking an advantage of the Templar-mage war. Alexius happen to stumble on a gold mine after finding out where the rebel mages was at. Fiona being the weak leader that she was latched on to someone like Alexius... A powerful Tevinter Magister. If you side with the Templars Fiona and her rebel mages becomes brainwashed and aid the Venatori to attack Haven.

[TracyJackson]

Eh, I don't know. I've played as a Mage in all 3 games, and made my canon Warden and Champion as such. I can see the faults on both sides, as well as the pros of both sides, too. I know magic must be controlled, but also felt the Templar's method as too limiting.

[Shahadem]

Alexius wasn't telling the truth when he mention about the rebel mages becoming regular citizens of Tevinter. He was merely trying to find mages to recruit for the Venatori military by taking an advantage of the Templar-mage war. Alexius happen to stumble on a gold mine after finding out where the rebel mages was at. Fiona being the weak leader that she was latched on to someone like Alexius... A powerful Tevinter Magister. If you side with the Templars Fiona and her rebel mages becomes brainwashed and aid the Venatori to attack Haven.

 

Because not one single other mage looked at this deal, said F you to Fiona and left to enjoy their freedom.

 

Also Dorius explains how the mages will never be considered regular citizens of Tevinter. They will all either be killed in battle, sacrificed, or kept as servants.

[Shahadem]

I wouldn't exactly call being the lucky one if you get picked out in a lineup to become a Grey Warden. Their is an approx 70% to 80% chances of you dying during the joining process. The mages are not fully aware of the Joining as it's kept a secret, and so when the mage accepts the offer isn't aware that they just signed their own death warrant because one they accept their is no going back.
 

 

For some people, that 20% chance at living is a godsend as they were on the verge of being executed otherwise.

 

In the city elf Origin story in DA:O, if you murdered the noble who was going to rape your cousin (and you if you were a female), you are charged with murder and just about to be taken to jail to await execution when Duncan comes and conscripts you at the last second. He also saves the Dalish elf from dying via Blight, as well as the dwarf noble and the mage.

[Shahadem]

I was almost finding it riddiolus at the amount of blood Mages in DA2, I mean really it got highly annoying to me.

 

Well if your choice is either die or use blood magic, you are going to use blood magic. The problem was portraying that choice as evil rather than necessary.

[Shahadem]

You know people have a thing to label everything terrorism these days. It was political motivated hit instead of spreading terror.

Even so it is justified what anders did. The mages are currently are suffering on the behalf of the common population and the common population doesnt seem to be so appreciative of the sacrifice the mages are making for them. Spoiled little shits the whole lot of them.

 

That's still terrorism.

 

But Anders attack was completely unjustifiable. He killed the only person who could have possibly convinced the rest of the Templars that Meredith was a mad dog that needed to be put down.

 

No one deserves to be killed just because they are complacent. Especially when they themselves do not have the power to bring about change.

[Vit246]

That's still terrorism.

 

But Anders attack was completely unjustifiable. He killed the only person who could have possibly convinced the rest of the Templars that Meredith was a mad dog that needed to be put down.

 

No one deserves to be killed just because they are complacent. Especially when they themselves do not have the power to bring about change.

 

Elthina as a Grand Cleric held power and authority over Kirkwall Templars. She even promoted Meredith as Knight-Commander. Of course she had the power to do something and bring about change. Reprimand Meredith, demote her, fire her, reassign her somewhere. But she did nothing. Her years of complacency and incompetence did nothing but preserve Kirkwall's status quo where the templars continue to do their stuff and the mages do their stuff but both sides are locked in an endless stalemate. And her being the present Grand Cleric meant neither the mages nor the templars were gonna fight it out openly and directly once and for all. She represented a false peace, a false hope of compromise. Anders got sick and tired of waiting for "ifs" and "maybes" and "possibilities" so he decided it was better to just kill her and let the mages and templars duke it out. If the mages win, they win. If the templars win, it'll be hardly any different than what the mages were already going through.

[ShadowLordXII]

It was damage control, really. The writers did such a fantastic job of convincing DA2 players that templars were nothing but a huge bag of ducks, they might have gone a bit far in the other direction this time. There are still enough random templars (not even red templars, just random schmucks) mistaking shovels for staves and killing whoever's holding it to show the stupidity of both sides. Fiona did something colossally stupid, yes, but is her shortsightedness worse than Lord Seeker Lucius's? I'd say they're on par.

 

It was kinda nice to see the mage/templar conflict more as a choice between stripes  or spots rather than between black and white. In DA2, I couldn't side with the templars without being filled with self-loathing. In DAI, I will probably always prefer the mages, but I have a much easier time liking my characters who go with the templars. 

 

The mage-templar conflict was never one that could be solved by choosing a side. It's too complicated, with too much history to consider on both sides, for it to be a simple decision. One might argue that an outsider might not have any right to make a decision about it at all... but one might also argue that anyone who has a stake in the matter is already biased. Both views are right... and both views are wrong.

 

I like that they managed to strike a balance in the Mage-Templar Conflict's presentations. In Inquisition, both sides have equal parts sympathy, validity, weaknesses and flaws with several characters being willing to admit that both mages and templars are to blame in one degree or another.

 

This is a huge improvement over DA2 where the conflict was presented as too bleak and dark to bother caring. It was hard to be invested because both sides were presented as oppressive, crazy, murderous or dangerous and yet the story still forced you to pick a side as though it mattered when taking a third option would be a very valid though difficult option for Hawke in addition to just bailing.

 

The problem I have with Inquisition is that the Mage-Templar conflict is never directly addressed. The Player basically side-steps the dynamics of the two sides to exclusively pick one faction while leaving the other to drown in red lyrium. There was never a direct moment where the Player could directly pick a side, destroy/conquer one or both sides, or create a working truce to face the common enemy known as the Breach (giant hole in the sky) and Corypheus (1 of 7 reasons why everyone hates magic)

 

Otherwise, the presentation is fine and there's enough room to deal with the side that you pick in a reasonable manner. Choosing mages doesn't automatically mean that you're their best friend nor is it the same with templars.

[X Equestris]

Elthina as a Grand Cleric held power and authority over Kirkwall Templars. She even promoted Meredith as Knight-Commander. Of course she had the power to do something and bring about change. Reprimand Meredith, demote her, fire her, reassign her somewhere. But she did nothing. Her years of complacency and incompetence did nothing but preserve Kirkwall's status quo where the templars continue to do their stuff and the mages do their stuff but both sides are locked in an endless stalemate. And her being the present Grand Cleric meant neither the mages nor the templars were gonna fight it out openly and directly once and for all. She represented a false peace, a false hope of compromise. Anders got sick and tired of waiting for "ifs" and "maybes" and "possibilities" so he decided it was better to just kill her and let the mages and templars duke it out. If the mages win, they win. If the templars win, it'll be hardly any different than what the mages were already going through.

And that absolutely fails to justify the attack.

[MerchantGOL]

I feel Sympathy, but then they go and do stupid ****, so yeah, the circles are staying.

[songsmith2003]

It would have been challenging and pretty interesting if instead the Inquisitor could only close the breach by getting both sides to work together. Also might have been cool if some Cory sympathizers were in the bunch and turned on everyone during the ritual in Your Heart Shall Burn resulting in epic battle right then.

[Personette]

All the back and forth about who's responsible for the breakdown of the system is silly to me. Is it a good system? Do people caught up in the system flourish?

 

Are the Templars really the best knights they could be? No. Clearly, many people who join the Templars hoping to be white hats turn into nasty criminals. Are mages making the most of their abilities--are they "serving man" as Andraste commanded? No, they are frightened, angry, unhappy and have no scope for their abilities at all. 

 

It's not clear who benefits from the system. The main reason to prop it up is "well, something else might be worse." That's a terrible reason to maintain the status quo. 

[Cadeym]

My first DA:O characters was a mage, and i've viewed the circles as prisons ever since. Now, bioware have attempted change the story.. but in DA:O we could read that mages were rarely ever allowed to leave the island where the tower was located.

 

What would you personally be willing to do if someone wanted to make you tranquil for almost no reason at all. "I'm terribly sorry, but we (enchanters and templars) don't think that the odds of you completing the harrowing are high enough... so we have decided to make you tranquil.. sorry."

 

Yeah i'm pretty sure my response would be to try and murder my way the hell out of there.

[MerchantGOL]

My first DA:O characters was a mage, and i've viewed the circles as prisons ever since. Now, bioware have attempted change the story.. but in DA:O we could read that mages were rarely ever allowed to leave the island where the tower was located.

 

What would you personally be willing to do if someone wanted to make you tranquil for almost no reason at all. "I'm terribly sorry, but we (enchanters and templars) don't think that the odds of you completing the harrowing are high enough... so we have decided to make you tranquil.. sorry."

 

Yeah i'm pretty sure my response would be to try and murder my way the hell out of there.

You would be entitled to try and escape, but seeing the horrors mages put everyone else though, they would be just ad entitled to put you down

[Cadeym]

DA:O - Blood magic required extensive training / knowledge for a mage to use it. Mages only become abominations under duress.. which is what the harrowing was designed to test.

 

The reason for the existance of circles are the abominations. Which is something that only happens to mages who fear for their lives. A calm mage really isn't any more dangerous than an unarmed commoner.

 

 

P.S. Magic exists to serve man, and never to rule over him. My own interpertation is that this refers to abominations rather than the actual use of magic.