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[berelinde]

Cole's banter with Cass shows that the Spire which Viviennne says is so great has them imply the Templars raped mages and threatened to make them Tranquil and make them sex slaves like Alrik or say they are blood mages. As much as Vivienne likes to claim Kirkwall was an exception, the abuses there were not limited to Kirkwall. 

You aren't wrong.

 

Plus, Vivienne enjoyed a life of privilege few in her Circle enjoyed. Given her strength of character and personal goals, she was *always* going to land on her feet. It's natural for people who enjoy privilege to assume that they are among the majority, but that is rarely the case. I don't blame Vivienne for that, by the way. It's just something people do. If you ask Vivienne how she and Bastien met, she tells you that she entered the relationship for the status and privileges it offered. "He was a dashing rogue. His status and position were more than enough to make up for any defects."

 

When Vivienne tells people that life in the Circle is wonderful, it's the Circle mage version of "Let them eat cake." She is no more representative of the Circle mage experience than Marie Antoinette was representative of 18th century French peasants.*

 

Vivienne clings to her glory days. If made Divine, her first objective is the return of the status quo. But, as the philosopher said, you can't put the feces back in the horse. Both sides of the mage-templar conflict were changed by it, and each resents the other more than ever. It doesn't matter who started it, and in the long term, none of the three candidates for Divine will be able to completely fix the problem. I foresee a continuation of mage-templar problems in future titles, unfortunately.

 

 

 

* Yes, I realize that Marie Antoinette never actually said that. It was attributed to her by a resentful populace and by lazy historians. But that's kind of the point. Both women possessed vast poise and social charm and both enjoyed unrivaled power and privilege, which both employed for self-serving ends. Vivienne has not yet had her comeuppance - and it may never happen! - but Marie Antoinette's lack of rapport with the common man cost her whatever popularity her flamboyance initially earned, and ultimately, her life.

[thats1evildude]

After supporting the mages for the last two games, I switched over to the templars this time around. I lost sympathy for them after going to Redcliffe.

 

And yeah, the rebel templars out in the Hinterlands are pretty bad, but so are the rebel apostates. "We deserve to rule the world, blah blah blah"

[KonguZya]

I lost sympathy for whoever wrote the mages in Inquisition. Though that was already happening in DA2 where every mage resorts to evil demonic blood magic at the first sign of trouble.

[Mir Aven]

I was unable to feel any sympathy for mages since I finished my first DA 2 playthrough (and I was always pro-mages till then). The only thing that DAI did was to show me that I was right.

[TevinterSupremacist]

Freeing mages isn't a question about whether they'll prove worthy of that freedom or not, OP. It's that they shouldn't be restrained/persecuted, BEFORE they do something wrong, just like anyone else.

[Mir Aven]

I wish there was this option...

 

Oh how I wished for that option in Act 3 of DA 2.

[Captmorgan72]

Solas completely understands the nature of spirits and apparently the Mages, Templars and Chantry do not. Cassandra seems to genuinely listen to Solas regarding this and learns from it. She should definitely rebuild the Seekers/Templar order along with Viv who seems to understand how dangerous magic can be without oversight. Viv should learn from Solas as well regarding the nature of spirits to rebuild a better Circle. Viv becoming Divine with Cass rebuilding the Seeker/Templar order seems like the best outcome assuming that Viv learns to understand the nature of spirits.    

[WhoopinYourA55Mate]

Oh how I wished for that option in Act 3 of DA 2.

I know the feel bro lol

[Herr Uhl]

After supporting the mages for the last two games, I switched over to the templars this time around. I lost sympathy for them after going to Redcliffe.

 

And yeah, the rebel templars out in the Hinterlands are pretty bad, but so are the rebel apostates. "We deserve to rule the world, blah blah blah"

 

Kind of had a similar reaction. Thought I'd go and recruit the mages, but they were too skeevy and seemed kind of useless. So much so that the people decking nuns for fun seemed like a better bet.

 

And intergrating the templars into the inquisition was surprisingly satisfying.

[Lord Raijin]

Yes, and naturally, those things are not free to exist everywhere and anywhere (but are subject to restrictions, as are the people who possess them).

 

So it is with the mages. They are basically walking nukes.

 

Don't you think anyone who lust for power are bascially walking nukes? Mages and mundanes alike. A corrupted Knight-Commander that lust for power can cause the same damage of a mage.

[WhoopinYourA55Mate]

Don't you think anyone who lust for power are bascially walking nukes? Mages and mundanes alike. A corrupted Knight-Commander that lust for power can cause the same damage of a mage.

True reason why both Meridith and Orsino went insane is because of all sexual tension between them 

[Lord Raijin]

Cole's banter with Cass shows that the Spire which Viviennne says is so great has them imply the Templars raped mages and threatened to make them Tranquil and make them sex slaves like Alrik or say they are blood mages. As much as Vivienne likes to claim Kirkwall was an exception, the abuses there were not limited to Kirkwall. 

 

The problem with that notion is that mages like Vivienne were spared of such brutal treatment because of their strong willpower. Those who were weak were a primary target of the abuse.

[Nykara]

The problem with that notion is that mages like Vivienne were spared of such brutal treatment because of their strong willpower. Those who were weak were a primary target of the abuse.

Vivian just got lucky because she was in a pretty good Circle. Had she of been in a different circle I am sure some Templars would have had no issues in wiping those smug smiles off her face and breaking her will.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Quite the opposite. It didn't change my opinion on mages at all. Desperate people do desperate things. I wouldn't be surprised if the Templars also did something similar if they were in the same situation. However, this game completely destroyed any goodwill I had for Templars. The leadership was corrupt as heck and the fact that the grunts were essentially corrupting themselves because orders said so is facepalm worthy. Did nobody know what red lyrium did to Meredith?! The leadership knew but apparently not the rest of the lower Templars. Plus, the fact that Lysette says that faith doesn't get you anywhere and the templars complaints at Haven and the Silver Shield ending pretty much sealed the deal on how no matter how nice people like Barris or Evangeline are, the Order by itself is too corrupt and will continue the same abuses against mages it has always done. Thus why Leliana frees the mages and the Templars are corrupted and destroyed by their own hate. I consider it a karmic end for the Templars.

[WhoopinYourA55Mate]

Vivian just got lucky because she was in a pretty good Circle. Had she of been in a different circle I am sure some Templars would have had no issues in wiping those smug smiles off her face and breaking her will.

Actually I suggest taking Cole in same party as her...he will *coughs* tell some interesting stuff about Vivenne's life that prove that actually her life both in Ciricle and with Bastien wasn't "flowers and sunshines" as she presents it to be.

 

"No one shall control me ever again..."....that stuff alone what Close says when reading her mind is more then proof how "in charge" she really was!

[Nykara]

Actually I suggest taking Cole in same party as her...he will *coughs* tell some interesting stuff about Vivenne's life that prove that actually her life both in Ciricle and with Bastien wasn't "flowers and sunshines" as she presents it to be.

 

"No one shall control me ever again..."....that stuff alone what Close says when reading her mind is more then proof how "in charge" she really was!

Interesting, I shall have to do that.

[Northern Sun]

I would say that DA:I made me much less sympathetic to mage leadership and much more sympathetic to the Templar grunt. Except for the Kirkwall ones.

[Ryriena]

The thing is mosty of you guys are completely missing the point that the mage templar issuse is not a black and white issuse, I am inclined to be more pro mage and have gotten yelled at by pro templars on this site. However, I do wish they had treated the Mages better by not writing how the ones we meet all turn to blood magic at the drop of a hat or cornered by people.

It felt like they were really trying to push the envelope with the mages setting villagers on fire in the hunter's story about the conflict and then they had part of the story were a templar was going to rape one of the villagers who was dying from third degree burns. The hunter killed the Templar and held the woman's hand.

They were trying so hard to paint this as a grey issuse I think they went overboard, hell even the Templars, if you chose them say the inqusition is not doing enough to hunt Mages to Cassandra. Which I am glad Cassandra tells this Templar that is not our job as part of the inqusition. Yeah, it's totally not black and white.

[Poison_Berrie]

The leadership was corrupt as heck and the fact that the grunts were essentially corrupting themselves because orders said so is facepalm worthy. Did nobody know what red lyrium did to Meredith?! The leadership knew but apparently not the rest of the lower Templars. 

I think the idea is/was that their ingestion of red lyrium is a secret one, where they gradually introduce them to it.

[WhoopinYourA55Mate]

I think the idea is/was that their ingestion of red lyrium is a secret one, where they gradually introduce them to it.

And here I go again...I hear about "ingestion" word again and thousands of perverted images pops out in my head of how it looks like...and Corypheus and broodmother porn comes out and...I better don't say anymore 

[_Aine_]

At this point I pretty much hate everyone equally.   Templars, mages....shrug.  No-one can do anything right, everyone has let themselves become greedy and corrupt, noone has a single moral bone in their bodies and the people who don't completely destroy everything just sit around whining about those who do without getting off their arses to attempt to fix anything.  The poor normal folk are just victimized or destroyed with no-one really caring, at all.   Both sides could die out and we could revert to single cell life forms and things would be better at this point.  #nodramaherenosiree

 

 

Oh gods, the game has turned me into Solas.   HALP. 

[thesuperdarkone2]

I think the idea is/was that their ingestion of red lyrium is a secret one, where they gradually introduce them to it.

The red lyrium codex clearly shows that people are aware that Meredith was corrupted by it. You'd think something that let a templar leap several stories high, shoot lighting, and animate statues would be common knowledge. Plus, Barris outright admits that they were given red lyrium normally with the assumption it was just regular lyrium. Are they stupid enough to not know what that stuff is?!

[line_genrou]

I think the root of all this problem is the Chantry

people are brainwashed into believing that the mages are gonna kill all if they are free (Chantry propaganda) and blame them for the blights

[thesuperdarkone2]

I think the root of all this problem is the Chantry

people are brainwashed into believing that the mages are gonna kill all if they are free (Chantry propaganda) and blame them for the blights

This. I think the problems with the Circles are bound to continue so long as the Chantry is in charge of the Circles. No matter how many reforms or freedoms the mages are given, so long as the Chantry controls the Circles, the same conflicts that caused this mess are bound to repeat themselves. At least Leliana tries to make mages and non-humans accepted by the Chantry and tries to change their views.

[jedidotflow]

It's not only mages that influence the Fade and the spirits. It's cause and effect really. The actions (war, indifference, greed)
and the following emotions of all the people of Thedas contributes to it.

According to Solas, a spirit becomes a demon when denied its original purpose.
They can be corrupted by being forced to do something so opposed to its purer nature (this is what the mages are responsible for)
or if they reflect the darker parts of the mortal psyche while they mine a Fade visitor's mind for their thoughts and memories (this any dreaming person in Thedas can do).

 

In short, only dwarves are blameless.