The most passionate period of my Mass Effect fandom was during the IT blitz, with the fan videos online cranking out Indoctrination Theory left right and centre, it really felt like I was part of a movement... but having said that, I'm no ending denier: I think the real ending is great (with Leviathan/EC of course)...but I still like to wonder about IT when doing a playthrough.
The shadowy images, things brought up by researchers during the IT craze... it all adds to the wonder of Mass Effect when playing from start to finish: I urge those who say it's "delusion" or "crazy" to let a little Indoctrination into you lives.........
I felt the IT was a horrible idea. If it was true that would be taking away all control from the player as it would mean the choices you were making were not your own and nothing mattered, and since ME3 was the last part of this story it would have been a slap in the face if true.
I didn't have a problem with the ending we got (some plot holes but they fixed with the EC) I felt accomplished that the universe would have a chance to continue due to the actions of my character and her stories would be told for generations to come (especially among the Krogan, Quarian, and Geth).
IT really was quite clever. It gives the players a really cool way to interpret the end sequences of the game. And - had the indoctrination plot not been dropped - it would have made for an interesting twist.
The downside to IT though is that it doesn't really fit with the codex nor does it do what indoctrination is capable of doing. IT relies on a lot of speculation and headcanon to get off the ground. Many clung to IT because they were so confused and distraught by the ending (the vanilla ending) that they wanted bio to leverage IT to give them a new ending. Many other genuinely thought it was bio's original intention all along, because everything in the ending is so off and so wrong that there is no way it could be real.
IT did seem very plausible before the EC, bio even gave it a few nods in the EC and Leviathan.
The only thing I didn't like though is how bioware seemed to be leading fans on to believing IT was real and that there was more to come. (as in many variants of IT the central conflict is not resolved and a new ending is required)
Still, it shows the creativity of the human mind and how well we can find patterns in data.
It was/is definitely fun to think about, and basically all the conversations you have with reapers or indoctrinated people make it seem highly plausible. When I first played ME1 (which luckily for me was just before ME3 came out - no waiting!), I talked to Sovereign and was like "omg this is going to end with the cycle continuing." It very well could have been the design at the beginning, and then it changed (or not). From Marauder Shields onward, it is still fuzzy/dreamlike, and could still work. But, alas, it seems unlikely.
Inevitability vs. choice and consequence was the name of the game for the entire ME trilogy. (People say it is all about choice and consequence, but there is a HUGE theme of the inevitability of things happening - good or bad.) It could easily have gone either way and been fine as an ending. As it was, it turned out like some weird combination of both that made no sense.
I thought the best thing about it was not so much that BW would have changed the endings (well, that too though) but that in March 2012 it was still a somewhat feasible idea that BW actually really planned it that way all along and that the ending was a giant hoax.
While I am sure that would have made A LOT of people very mad, I think it would have been the greatest 4th wall breaking strike of genius in the history of storytelling. Not only would BioWare have indoctrinated Shepard, they would have successfully indoctrinated 99% of the players. It would have been the ultimate level of interactive media and it was a shame that it was not the case.
Nowadays, I am surprised to still find some who cling to IT. I mean, all it does now is provide no ending instead of a bad one (at least bad in the minds of those who still believe in the theory), so I see no appeal in it anymore. But back then, it was a brilliant theory.
Tipping my hat to those who first came up with it.
Has anyone tried making an IT mod? I'd be surprised if no one hasn't. I mean, the resources are there to create that ending IT people wanted.
You have the ending as is in extended cut form, and then, for those who pick destroy plus, once you get to the scene where Shepard breaths, you cut to a POV of Shepard getting up, and he's back at the beam. You play the Dream music from the Dreams scenes as Shepard "re-walks" to the beam, and shoots back up. Fade to black.
Then cut to Shepard walking to the Council Stage used in the intro of the game, which now have a holo control panel like the one in ME1. You start playing "Leaving Earth", since Shepard really did leave earth, and is now in the Citadel. As Shepard makes his slow walk, you cut to Reapers images as Shepard struggles to stay in control. Then cut to the image of the boy on Earth, as Shepard hits some buttons. And then passes out.
Cut to black. You hear Hackett say the Crucible is armed.
We see Shepard passed out on the ground in the darkness, surrounded by Reapers. They tower over him, looking menacing. Still trying to indoctrinate him. Then we see a wave hit them all. And they slowly fall down. And then we're back to a dreamless darkness.
We then cut to Shepard passed out on the ground at the Citadel. And slowly pull back. Is he dead? Is he alive?
Cut to credits. Instead of playing the theme song from the other endings, it starts with "We fought as a United Galaxy" theme, to create a sense of unknown, and sadness.
We then get the Star gazer scene. Ending with "One more story".
Mass Effect 1 The End (Reprised) starts playing.
We see Earth in daylight. Surround by clearly dead Reapers and husks.
We see Soldiers walk around, doing their jobs. Still alive and unaltered.
We then see your LI and/or Joker looks down at them all from a building similar to an apartment. The LI then turns around, and sees EDI helping Shepard walk outside, who clearly alive. The LI then uses Liara's "hold your arm" animation, and the two look down at the bright and real future they helped create.
About IT itself, it was a good concept, except for one aspect, and that it require one choice to be the "Real" choice, and any other ending you picked as "Oh, you were just stupid. You were indoctrinated. You picked the wrong ending", which isn't something you should do to players who really wanted to control the Reapers, or really liked Synthesis. Or really wanted to kill both the Reapers and all AIs. It's pretty much giving the middle finger to them. What's the point of a choice, it you're just going to be told you're wrong for picking it, and that there's clearly a better choice you should've picked. And then you include the aspect that by having an ending "after" an ending. It's good for a first time playthrough maybe, but then the second time, you'd realize 20 minutes is wasted with bioware just giving you a dream/lie sequence before getting to the part where things really happen, and the game really ends.
As for the fandom, I think the problem with Indoctrination theory is that it was a means to an end. I don't think people wanted it just for the cool concept. Because for those that do, that concept still exists. You can still assume everything is in Shepard's head, until his choice is made. And then everything outside the Citadel is what's happening for real. But IT fans aren't happy with that. They wanted a "new" ending. They just used it as an excuse bioware could use to give them an ending they really wanted, which involved Shepard destroying the Reapers without consequence, and without dying.
It was always paradoxial how people hated the endings but they cling on to IT as if, if that had happened originally, they'd not have a problem with a complete lack of closure or player choice.
It was always paradoxial how people hated the endings but they cling on to IT as if, if that had happened originally, they'd not have a problem with a complete lack of closure or player choice.
Think about it, would you rather have a finale that rips apart the lore, shits on and invalidates every choice you made, and completely destroys the universe you grew to love.
Or would you take a finale that gives you hope of more to come and leaves the conflict unended?
@TMA LIVE: It's a nice idea for a mod. It would also be theoretically possible to construct with the tools and knowladge we've got but it would be very, very tedious work, especially because you want to show Shepard and LI specific material. There is a reason why all ME3 story mods only use material that is already in the game. If you wanted to make new stuff, you would have to construct it almost byte by byte in a HEX editor.
Also, that ending would introduce a couple of new questions. For example, why would the real beam lead to the council chamber of all places and why wouldn't the reapers just put it chock full of husks/brutes/banshees?
Personally, I always thought that if you wanted to pick up on IT, you'd need some form of gameplay to go with it. It could have been great if BioWare would have done it but we don't have the means/knowladge to create feasible gameplay at the moment and just adding further cutscenes is just not enough of a payoff for the trouble of creating such a mod, IMO.
@TMA LIVE: It's a nice idea for a mod. It would also be theoretically possible to construct with the tools and knowladge we've got but it would be very, very tedious work, especially because you want to show Shepard and LI specific material. There is a reason why all ME3 story mods only use material that is already in the game. If you wanted to make new stuff, you would have to construct it almost byte by byte in a HEX editor.
Also, that ending would introduce a couple of new questions. For example, why would the real beam lead to the council chamber of all places and why wouldn't the reapers just put it chock full of husks/brutes/banshees?
Personally, I always thought that if you wanted to pick up on IT, you'd need some form of gameplay to go with it. It could have been great if BioWare would have done it but we don't have the means/knowladge to create feasible gameplay at the moment and just adding further cutscenes is just not enough of a payoff for the trouble of creating such a mod, IMO.
Well, I more of see the fade to blacks as a way to jumping time. Shepard doesn't beam to the Council Chamber, he walks his way there from whatever the beam took him. As for why he doesn't fight anyone, the modders could put some bodies in there, to show a battle that happened, where Cerberus troops were guarding the controls for TIM, but were killed. The Illusive Man's body could be among them (trying to control the Reapers, but ended up getting killed). But either way, they kept the path cleared before they died, and whatever remaining Husks survived, left their post to kill the survivors, who's gun fire you might be able to still hear.
Think about it, would you rather have a finale that rips apart the lore, shits on and invalidates every choice you made, and completely destroys the universe you grew to love.
A few issues:
1) Introducing a new character does not rip apart the lore. It adds to it. I assume you're talking about the Catalyst. The Reapers are mechanical...so something made them for a purpose. I figured that out from the start. It was just a question of who and why.
2) Invalidating choice...let's see: I chose to save the Krogan. That didn't get invalidated. I chose to save the Quarians. That didn't get invalidated. So there goes "every choice".
3) In the Epilogue, the Citadel and the relays are rebulid and I see some of the main characters living on.The universe I loved wasn't destroyed.
1 - Never assume. I wasn't talking about adding a new character. Now, while this is usually not the best practice to do with a story it can be done. The catalyst essentially retcons the reapers and creates many inconsistencies with the established lore.
I know you won't really watch those critiques because of...reasons. But I will just asses that it is time constraints. The best one I have seen is the MrBtounge one:
It is actually quite nice. Well put together and well articulated.
The ending was so poorly executed that it seemed to have four core problems:
Genre Shift (space Magic with synthesis is now possible, destroy working for reasons, control working for reasons - note, these reasons are never explained or shown to us)
Character Focus (retcons or rather character shifts in our ME characters ranging from Shepard all the way to the the most beloved Garrus)
Central Conflict - Now, while I will say that it can be ok to do this, it is usually not the best idea. The game suddenly changes the focus from the war on the reapers to the problems with organic creating and being destroyed by synthetic life. Now, if this was just kept in the background and not put into the foreground it would be ok. But, sadly it wasn't
The fourth problem is where all the questions from the fanbase comes from. The fourth problem is where we find all of the inconsistencies and plotholes. it is Narrative Coherence.
Now, the ending and its problems can be solved using a good amount of headcanon. IT was created by players to try to explain all of the inconsistencies from the ending. Eventually, players saw IT as a way out of a bad ending.
2 - You saved the Krogan! Great! What difference did they make in the Gameplay of Priority Earth? You saved the Rachni! Great! What difference did it make in the game play of priority earth? ETC. The Rachni one is especially damning as there was a quote that sated they would have a HUGE impact on the final battle of earth. When all they amount to is a measly 50-100 ems. That doesn't even give you a difference in cut scenes. I am sure you can utter the now infamous line "but the entire game is the ending". However, the ending of the ending still renders everything moot. You patched things up with Krogan and Turians? Great! They are now stranded together on earth and Tuchanka/Palavan. You worked things out with the Quarians and Geth? Great! They are now stranded together in Sol or dead in low - mid ems. This is not me speculating, this is what we derive from the codex. Without the mass relays galactic travel comes down to FTL. And FTL takes a loooooooong time to get places especially system to system. And then the cutscenes and slide shows show us everything is working out...because unexplained reasons. and if that works for you-great.I already know your mind will NEVER be changed no matter what I say or do.
3 - The problem is that many of the epilogues don't make sense or shouldn't be there. The ME codex and lore clearly state that when a relay is destroyed, the system is destroyed. This is proven and reinforced via the arrival DLC. So, what in game explanation is there for the low and mid ems slideshows? Then there is synthesis, which just works...because reasons. Then there is the issue of Starjar on the citadel (shown in the first link) rendering ME1, 2, and 3 moot. The ending - without headcanon or wild speculation - shreds the well established universe to pieces.
I mean, they (the low-mid EMS slides) have no point in being there. Not to mention that the memorial scene having the entire crew on the normandy! I nearly fell out of my seat when I saw that. The normandy only came down to earth once to pick up the squadmates and then rejoined sword fleet. Then cut to the ending and we see our entire crew at the memorial scene? Granted it is a good scene, but like the epilogues in low and mid ems it makes no sense given the time frame and the established story.
You can say that everything should not have to be explained, that it should be up to the reader or the gamer to just fill in the blanks on their own. Not really. If shepard suddenly turns into a lizard for no reason and that is never explained and it is also not possible in the universe that has been established then it is contrived and nonsensical. The same for low-mid ems epilogues, synthesis ending, starjar's presence, the normandy evac, and so much more. If you are going to let the reader try to figure it out, give them something - anything - to grapple onto to run with. It could be a datapad, some technobabble, a brief cutscene, anything.
And I really have a funny feeling you are going to say something like that (regarding headcanon or "the entire game is the ending") - especially given your blog entry:
"Storytelling is an art form. One of the best ways to ruin a story is to beat someone over the head with details. Your story now morphs into an autopsy because you’re dissecting everything with gory precision. Yes, you give detail, but you lose the story. You lose the emotion. You bury your audience in details. I remember reading the Vampire Chronicles and I remember my eyes glazing over the pages when Rice would go into excruciating detail about the room in the scene. The voice in my head kept saying “Why do I care” or “This is too much, you gave me enough to get the idea”
The Mass Effect Universe is made up of small to large details. When those details are threatened or retconned they become endangered or jeopardized. And then there are details that depend on details. One thing is based on another. When you pull out one - the other will fall. Details really do matter. Maybe not to people like you, in which case maybe you should look into more casual games and stay away from older RPGs. I love reading codex entries, reading journal entries, learning history. It is what makes the universe work and shows how it works. If I love something I will want to see and learn more about it. If suddenly something from that universe comes up that breaks the established lore in that universe and has no explanation - it is very bad.
I always liken this to the concept of why Gandalf didn't just use the eagles to fly the ring into Mordor. Sure, there have been plenty of theories that he was going to and was diverted, but in the end we as the audience or the reader are told there are more flying nazgul than there are eagles. So, from that knowlege we can just say that the already risky maneuver is made even more impossible due to the defense Sauron had.
Ten to one you will answer the 1,2, and 3 and fill in the blanks with your headcanon. But I implore you, try to fill in the blanks with cite-able, provable lore first, THEN resort to headcanon. If you just write me and my (and others) complaints as mere nitpicking (as if that devalues the argument-it does not) I must cite a statement made by God:
But refusing to acknowledge an argument or evidence or rationale or perspective that offers a different view without taking in and absorbing what is being said is rather unwise and dogmatic towards your perspective/bias.
@ Ithurael - while I agree with much of what you wrote in your subsequent post, this particular comment is still waaaaaaaaay over the top:
Think about it, would you rather have a finale that rips apart the lore, shits on and invalidates every choice you made, and completely destroys the universe you grew to love.
'Rips apart the lore'
It certainly creates some inconsitencies with established lore, sure, but it doesn't go as far as ripping the lore apart. For any damage it does, it also adds to the lore by filling in the blanks about the creation and motives of the reapers. I don't think it does that particularly well, mind you, but 'rips apart' is a bit much IMO. Most of the established lore is still just fine.
'Shits on and invalidates every choice you made'
If by 'shits on' you mean that the choices don't have much impact on the ending then yes, I agree with you. But very few things are actually invalidated, provided that you put in the play time to get a high EMS ending. The only things I can think of (off the top of my head) are if you chose the Geth over the Quarians or encouraged Joker's relationship with EDI, and then picked destroy, since the Geth and EDI are killed and it makes what you did a waste of time. Curing the genophage, saving the Rachni, etc aren't invalidated by the ending, they just aren't very satisfactory dealt with (just EMS and an epilogue slide).
'Completely destroys the universe you grew to love'
Again, not if you got a high EMS ending. Even picking destroy, the EC clearly shows the galaxy recovering from the Crucible blast. The relays are damaged but not detroyed and FTL ships are still flying. No doubt there are plenty of beings who will die or be stranded as a result, but for the most part things will go on.
To be clear, I'm not defending the endings. I agree that they are flawed (and in some aspects nonsensical, as you have rightly pointed out) but that doesn't suddenly validate every off-the-cuff insult that is thrown at them. And for the record I am a fan of older, choice-driven RPGs like Fallout and PS: Torment.
I'm not sure that Master Che's post warranted the 'troll' comment either, just quietly.
I will admit, I may have been harsh. But that is what happens when I have to deal with that crap ending.
'Rips apart the lore'
It certainly creates some inconsitencies with established lore, sure, but it doesn't go as far as ripping the lore apart.
Rips Apart the Lore:
- The catalyst renders ME1-3 moot. They should never have happened- at all. The games ME1-3 should never have came out. That is how bad it is
- Synthesis just appearing and working because...reasons. Even though in this universe there is nothing that can ever do that.
- The Leviathan DLC (granted it was created to further justify the crap ending we got) fills in the blanks just fine. And I am not talking about the thematic issues or synth vs org. That is fine. There really is nothing wrong with the bad guys having a circular logic loop or a poorly crafted logical solution = they are the bad guys. My problems are with how this is presented and how the presentation (eg starjar) retcons established lore and plotholes the series into non existence (without headcanon)
'Shits on and invalidates every choice you made'
'Shits on and invalidates every choice you made'
If by 'shits on' you mean that the choices don't have much impact on the ending then yes, I agree with you
That is what I meant.
'Completely destroys the universe you grew to love'
Again, not if you got a high EMS ending. Even picking destroy, the EC clearly shows the galaxy recovering from the Crucible blast. The relays are damaged but not detroyed and FTL ships are still flying. No doubt there are plenty of beings who will die or be stranded as a result, but for the most part things will go on.
- The problem is that without the relays, it all comes down to FTL. Granted in Control we get a better ending where the reapers can repair what was damaged faster to avoid the inevitable starvation.
However, the real problem is that we get a universe that has established what can/can't happen. This universe has a society in it (galactic society). This society is able to travel to the furthest parts of that universe via the Mass Relays. Without those relays, that society cannot travel as far and no where near as fast. Then, for reasons, those relays are taken away. That is what the established lore tells us.
Then, enter the EC and we see that everything is working out...this makes no sense. In high or low EMS there would still be mass starvation. I think the closest home cluster to SOL would be the Krogan DMZ. Wrex and Grunt might make it....but it is a matter of when and how long? They don't have enough food to last forever.
Then, the universe is destroyed again via starjars existence on the citadel and as the citadel. This is detailed in the beginning of my wall-of-text post.
While I can acknowledge that nothing is truly perfect, as cited by the LOTR reference, as long as there is something shown or told to give the reader something to grapple onto and run with it should be ok to do. However, regarding starjar or the relays go boom. There is nothing. We are just shown that things happen...because reasons.
I guess it all comes down to Rule of Cool.
The only remark the endings don't deserve is "this made me depressed", "broke my will to live", "ended my love of RPGs", etc.
And, to the troll comment. I have seem many wannabe trolls use the same logic and even phrasing so I just went with it.
I will admit it. I would have loved the idea of Shepard Fighting indoctrination off (ala like the TIM segment) before making a choice. The whole Idea of making a trick ending and releasing the real ending as DLC never appealed to me. However, had IT been implemented into the core game and we got the indoctrination reveal AND the resolution to the central conflict. I will admit...I would have been pretty amazed.
This actually leads me to wonder how I would have implemented the, what I will call now, 'Indoctrination Segment'
Personally, I would have killed TIM at Chronos.
Then, before shep can make a choice he is psychologically attacked by Harbinger. You would see oily shadows, visions of people dying, and shepard would be crawling slowly to make a choice. I would probably just keep to two options. with either one still resolving the central conflict (ala control or destroy) but still. It would be an interesting bit of gameplay to see shepard experiencing rapid indoctrination and then seeing everyone you killed or let die across the trilogy as the Prothean VI shouts at you to get up and finish the fight.
That is at least my vanilla concept. I need to think about it more. Mainly, I draw inspiration for how Dead Space 2 ended. That was actually quite beautiful and terrifying.
I have played far too many games with unsatisfying endings to give the ME series any grief. I like the endings to all 3 g ames, and although I didn't care for the vanilla me3 ending, the extended cut helped. Fallout 3 was helped with Broken Steel. A lot of games I love could have been helped with a longer ending cutscene, but that really isn't what games are about. Mass Effect 3 ended Shepard's journey, but not the Mass Effect universe.
Perhaps the Mass Effect ending could have been better, though, if after everything the camera panned to a rabbit's head on a stick and a burning city in the background. Now THAT would have been awesome!
After all this time I can only conclude 2 things about ME3's ending.
1) It's about Shepard getting indoctrinated.
or
2) Shepard died / is dying after being hit by Harbinger's beam. Everything we see after that is Shepard finding peace with himself (deals with the Illusive Man, deals with the Reaper problem, thinks about his loved ones one last time, every chosen ending contains positivity). Might also be the reason why every ending is almost the same (visually). Breath scene could actually be the final breath before Shep dies & passes on.
The game and the codex are very clear how the indoctrination process works. Many try to liken enthrallment to indoctrination in an attempt to reason out starjar or the ending sequence as real. However, enthrallment is not indoctrination and visa versa. They are too different. The only thing indoctrination shares with enthrallment is that the signal to gain control (enthrallment) is the basis for the signal indoctrination uses. If you are to assume that "If Leviathan can do it and Harbinger is made from Leviathan, so why can't he" Then you run into two problems:
- In some playthroughs Harbinger is not there, it is a soverign class reaper and the ending scenes still play through
- This is not a logical statement nor even a logical workflow. Here is an example of a logical inference:
Starjar controls all reapers
Harbinger is a reaper
Harbinger is controlled by starjar.
We start with an absolute fact, then we state another observable fact and then we draw the conclusion from there
Many commit a fallacy called affirming the consequent when it comes to harbinger having leviathans dream creation ability.
EG
If harbinger can create dreamscapes, then he is made from leviathan
harbinger is made from leviathan
Therefore, harbinger can create dreamscapes.
With the enthrallment == indoctrination piece...eh. that seems to be too much speculation and a HUGE assumption. And for some reason or another people justify all this speculation by a certain bad writers comment "Lots of Speculation from Everyone"
IT is fun headcanon, but it doesn't hold ground against the lore.
To Number 2. I have never seen anything in the ME universe state that something like the ending sequence would happen when someone is about to die. I mean it could I guess...but that is really really overly elaborate for a death rattle. Though, it is interesting I suppose.
The only problem with either of those is that the central conflict is left completely unresolved and is kind of a crappy way to end a trilogy and the story. And while I know the last holdout is ME4 or ME:Next...all I can say is that if you are hoping for a resolution to the reaper war in ME4 or ME:Next...brace for disappointment.
EDIT: I should make an addendum to this. While IT certainly holds no bar when looking at the lore and the codex...neither does the ending literally. So, as MrBTounge stated: (and I paraphrase) "if a segment of a story is based on or contains a contrivance it holds no narrative legitimacy. You are free to make one up in its place. And your version will be just as official as the real version if not moreso"
To number 1: Alright, maybe indoctrination isn't the right word for what is happening. I don't even agree with everything that has been said in IT-threads (some stuff is too far-fetched or feels like grasping at straws).
But I still do think the last 20 minutes of the game are not real. It could be a fake reality created in Shep's mind by the Reapers or something akin to the situation I described in possibility #2. I am not sure to what end the Reapers are forcing Shep to make one of the final choices though.
I'm not expecting closure or a continuation in the next ME. We'll just have to accept an ending that is confusing and open to interpretation. Some movies also end in such a way (Birdman for example). To some people that's cool, others would've liked to see something more straightforward and clear.
Still can't wait to see what BioWare has in store for the next installment. I'm actually glad it's not about Shepard & co anymore. 3 games was enough. Fresh characters etc will keep things interesting.
The most we could get with option two is that it is a fake reality created by shepard in his dying moments. As cited by the codex and seen in the lore, the reapers themselves are incapable of creating full blown dreamscapes equal to that of the ending moments (even leviathan are incapable of it).
Still, not the best way to end the trilogy with the main character dying no matter what and the reapers winning but hey. That is one way to look at it I suppose.
Shep dies and the cycle continues. Definitely not the best way to end the trilogy, but we have been warned about it. As long as this doesn't mean more Reaper stuff in future Mass Effects. I'm done with it.
No. I get it, the theory makes sense, but it's not any better than the original (it's still essentially F you), and we don't need the same ending as Dead Space.
Retour en haut
As long as this doesn't mean more Reaper stuff in future Mass Effects. I'm done with it.
