You could think that, then again people can be rather confused after being released of a life long imprisonment.
Except you know, for the fact they aren't subject to life long imprisonment. If you're remotely capable and responsible living outside the Circle is just a First Enchanter's permission away.
Well you can try it. Let me know how it goes after being locked up for like 40 years.
They where not realesed thats my point. They rebelled (against many mages whises) just because fiona. And look where that got them. Right in tevinters claws. It just shows that most mages can't handle responsabilty for their actions but I'm think that its better that we ease them into freedom or something.
Except you know, for the fact they aren't subject to life long imprisonment. If you're remotely capable and responsible living outside the Circle is just a First Enchanter's permission away.
There are actually only hand full of people who have the right to do so in Thedas. Considering how many people have gone through the circle system I would call that bs.
... and who proceeded to go to the other side of the country and sit there doing nothing. Which even one lousy scouting mission would have assured Fiona of, such a massive army cannot hide in the Hinterlands.
A scouting mission she didn't do. Because she's incompetent.
She signed them into slavery. Every last one of them, children included. That's why she starts being upset when Alexius says he will train the children to war. Because the original agreement called for them to still be slaves, only Fiona was stupid enough to believe Alexius wouldn't use his position of strength to change the terms of the contract.
There are actually only hand full of people who have the right to do so in Thedas. Considering how many people have gone through the circle system I would call that bs.
Thats his/her point. They are institutionalized.
You mean little children who show signs of magical abilities? Rather cold there don´t you think?
Truth is, the circle system was faulty at the start. Mages should have been given a right to have a life outside circle. You start locking people up for just being born for certain type you will have rebellion in your hands.
Speaking of little of children, wouldn't Fiona and the mage rebellion's abandonment of Southern Thedas essentially put every future mage child at the mercy of either the templars or the kingdoms of Ferelden and Orlais, with no pro-mage military power or political power to defend them and train them. I suppose Fiona decided to cut her losses and leave them to their fate. Way to stand up for the rights of her own people.
I'm thinking that maybe a hogwards but with templars is the best approach.
I would like to get it as close to this as possible, but with the caveat that attendance is mandatory, and probably leaving the Harrowing up. Some air of desperation and some shouts of oppression are impossible to avoid, but they can be minimized if the Templars are forced to restrain themselves and to punish any Alriks or Merediths. (As I believe Vivienne and Cassandra both do.)
There were more than enough templar in the area...or where do you think did that massive templar army which overruns Haven come from?
It's actually explained that these came from Therinfall Redoubt. Did you even play the game?
... and who proceeded to go to the other side of the country and sit there doing nothing. Which even one lousy scouting mission would have assured Fiona of, such a massive army cannot hide in the Hinterlands.
A scouting mission she didn't do. Because she's incompetent.
She signed them into slavery. Every last one of them, children included. That's why she starts being upset when Alexius says he will train the children to war. Because the original agreement called for them to still be slaves, only Fiona was stupid enough to believe Alexius wouldn't use his position of strength to change the terms of the contract.
There was no action only due to plot reason, but the intention was there.
There was no slavery, only service. However, the plot also worked there, none of the mages were obliged to do anything since Fiona had no actual power to enforce the issue. Everyone could have decided otherwise if they so would have wanted. And Alexius bossing around in Redcliffe was the most stupid idea, which ruler would have allowed foreign dignitary to take over parts of their land without butchering the whole bunch.
I would like to get it as close to this as possible, but with the caveat that attendance is mandatory, and probably leaving the Harrowing up. Some air of desperation and some shouts of oppression are impossible to avoid, but they can be minimized if the Templars are forced to restrain themselves and to punish any Alriks or Merediths. (As I believe Vivienne and Cassandra both do.)
I agree. The middle road is hard to take but I think its the best.
I am just going to put this here, and make people read the bolded parts provided by the codex in Da:O.
In reality, the Chantry's militant arm looks first for skilled warriors with unshakable faith in the Maker, with a flawless moral center as a secondary concern. Templars must carry out their duty with an emotional distance, and the Order of Templars prefers soldiers with religious fervor and absolute loyalty over paragons of virtue who might question orders when it comes time to make difficult choices.
And thats what I think is wrong. I agree with Cullen. The protection of mages and human beings should be valued higher than faith.
There was no action only due to plot reason, but the intention was there.
There was no slavery, only service. However, the plot also worked there, none of the mages were obliged to do anything since Fiona had no actual power to enforce the issue. Everyone could have decided otherwise if they so would have wanted. And Alexius bossing around in Redcliffe was the most stupid idea, which ruler would have allowed foreign dignitary to take over parts of their land without butchering the whole bunch.
Uh, so basically, your arguments only work if you bend the plot to suit them? Ok then. I was under the impression we were talking about the plot as written, not as it should have occured to make the mages appear blameless.
Speaking of little of children, wouldn't Fiona and the mage rebellion's abandonment of Southern Thedas essentially put every future mage child at the mercy of either the templars or the kingdoms of Ferelden and Orlais, with no pro-mage military power or political power to defend them and train them. I suppose Fiona decided to cut her losses and leave them to their fate. Way to stand up for the rights of her own people.
True, in short the whole idea of signing a all exclusive pact with Tevinter would be supported by the majority of mages IF there was actual imminent threat of total genocide of free mages. In that case the threat was badly shown.
Although according to the Chantry it doesn't and only one whom does this change is Leilana as Divine.And thats what I think is wrong. I agree with Cullen. The protection of mages and human beings should be valued higher than faith.
Uh, so basically, your arguments only work if you bend the plot to suit them? Ok then. I was under the impression we were talking about the plot as written, not as it should have occured to make the mages appear blameless.
Desperate people do desperate things. I would sign such a pact in a second should it save my head from being chopped off. Blaming mages for trying to save their lives is rather short sighted.
Simple, pro-templars need more justification for why they chose their side and try to make Fiona's idiotic move even more idiotic to say Templars are better. Still haven't convinced me given how Lucius could wind up destroying the Templar Order.
My justification is that my overall view point is support for reform of the existing setup (mage oversight) and that in terms of the inquisition needs, an elite military force comprised of soldiers trained to fight magic and demons is more valuable (and easy to lead) than a rag-tag group of rebels (including children) loosely led by a someone who many people in her own ranks distrust her judgement.
That said... I feel terrible for the mages and Fiona (especially after learning about her backstory and how she was abused). It was a very difficult choice for me and I still feel bad about it (and killing Fiona when defending Haven definitely didn't help).
It's actually explained that these came from Therinfall Redoubt. Did you even play the game?
Although according to the Chantry it doesn't and only one whom does this change is Leilana as Divine.
Cassandra changes too if you conscript the mages.
Except you know, for the fact they aren't subject to life long imprisonment. If you're remotely capable and responsible living outside the Circle is just a First Enchanter's permission away.
Except only in one or two Circle's are mages allowed to "live" outside the Circle tower. The Ferelden Circle allowed mages to visit friends and family outside the tower, but they could never live outside its walls. Only the Montsimmard and Dairsmuid Circles (to my knowledge) actually let mages live outside with everyone else, and the Dairsmuid Circle was annulled because of it.
Except only in one or two Circle's are mages allowed to "live" outside the Circle tower. The Ferelden Circle allowed mages to visit friends and family outside the tower, but they could never live outside its walls. Only the Montsimmard and Dairsmuid Circles (to my knowledge) actually let mages live outside with everyone else, and the Dairsmuid Circle was annulled because of it.
I think the annulment of the Daursmuid circle was wrong.
If Fionna tells them to **** off there are no venatori there - just mages. And it's Arl Teagan's sovereign territory. So long as he gives them protection any attack on him is a declaration of war.
The Venatori are there regardless, this is made clear if you play through and recruit the mages. The Venatori show up via their time magic, oust Teagan, and take control of Redcliffe. The end of the quest to recruit the mages (when Alistair/Anora show up) even mentions that Alistair/Anora came to help liberate the town from the Venatori.
Let me get this straight about Fiona. People believe she is Alistairs mother because it was mentioned in some book? And yet there has been no mention of it in game at all, not even in the codex?
So the templar army was two days away from Redcliffe...and what's your point exactly? Neither the inquisition nor the ferelden army noticed how this massive templar force marched against Haven. But Fiona is incompetent because she didn't do some scouting mission?
No Fiona's incompetent because she didn't do ANYTHING! The Vints showed up out of thin air (literally) and said "Hey a massive templar force is just outside your walls and they're coming to kill you, don't ask how we know, just trust us. All our help costs is ten years of slavery and your children fighting our war with the qunari, it's a steal." And Fiona went "Ummm, that's not good. Ok, you have yourselves a deal."
All she had to do was NOT take the Venatori at their word. Ask for proof, how they knew, as long as she did SOMEthing!
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