No it is not. You need to look it up. Only war hungry murderous templars interpreted it to be so that they can kill mages.
You're being willfully blind if you think an unilateral dismantling of the Circles (the very thing Templars are sworn to keep afloat) wouldn't trigger violence on the Templar's end. That's like sprinting towards the President with a gun in hand and being surprised when the Secret Service shoots you, since you only wanted to show him your shiny new gun.
Unless you are a mage slave, like Calpernia was.
Or a slave for orlesian noble. What is the difference?
No it is not. You need to look it up. Only war hungry murderous templars interpreted it to be so that they can kill mages.
Wynne flat out warned her a declaration of independence would lead to the Templars declaring war.
Fiona acknowledged it but claimed they were not responsible for the actions of the Templars.
She accepted the war as the price. I imagine she regretted it as she realized the mages were getting absolutely murdered.
You're being willfully blind if you think an unilateral dismantling of the Circles (the very thing Templars are sworn to keep afloat) wouldn't trigger violence on the Templar's end. That's like sprinting towards the President with a gun in hand and being surprised when the Secret Service shoots you, since you only wanted to show him your shiny new gun.
No it is not. Templars decided to resort to violence instead of negotiation. There is your difference. Mages are not running out to show their fireballs to the villagers.
Wynne flat out warned her a declaration of independence would lead to the Templars declaring war.
Fiona acknowledged it but claimed they were not responsible for the actions of the Templars.
She accepted the war as the price. I imagine she regretted it as she realized the mages were getting absolutely murdered.
Sure, they knew what kind of people templars were.
Or a slave for orlesian noble. What is the difference?
You are the one who said "mages are free in Tevinter".
Therefore, we don't have to point out a difference between them and orlesian servants. Simply proving that mages can be enslaved is enough to disprove your point.
The difference its ilegal to own slaves in Orlais, Fiona owner would be sentenced to death because of his crime.Or a slave for orlesian noble. What is the difference?
Sure, they knew what kind of people templars were.
Clearly, the superior military for one.
No it is not. Templars decided to resort to violence instead of negotiation. There is your difference. Mages are running out to show their fireballs to the villagers.
The Templars were jailors. What do you expect them to do to their prisoners are breaking out of prison, sit down and have teas and crumpets with them?
I see I'm just wasting my time. There's no point to this back and forth.
I think what really burns me about Fiona is that she tries to kill the Inquisitor on behalf of a friggin' darkspawn. Allying with the Venatori when you're desperate is one thing; working for Corypheus is another.
Not entirely. An indentured servant may only be forced to serve for a certain length of time, and if they have children while serving those children are not going to be required to serve past that point. Or at all, if they aren't old enough to serve before the indenture is over. Slavery is the permanent and hereditary, and permanently hereditary, form of service. Though again: this only matters if you trust Alexius to remember that this was indenture rather than slavery.
What you just described is the North American experience with slavery and indentured servitude, not the global or objective definitions. 'Slavery' as a concept is broader than either, but doesn't require permanence or hereditary nature.
I'd rather try my luck through mandatory military service than wait in my tiny cell for some horny templar to come clean my pipes in the middle of the night, and then turn me into tranquil if I say anything.
You make it sound like the same can't happen to you in Tevinter.
There were more than enough templar in the area...or where do you think did that massive templar army which overruns Haven come from?
...the Red Templars at the fort in the east, duh. Where all the Templars are stated on multiple occasions to be gathered, for what we know was the conspiracy to drug them with red lyrium.
Just like the Venatori who overrun Haven are the Circle mages if you don't rescue them.
Desperate people do desperate things. I would sign such a pact in a second should it save my head from being chopped off. Blaming mages for trying to save their lives is rather short sighted.
...if the accusations is that the mages are being short sighted, then calling them short-sighted would not be shortsighted. It would, in fact, be the objectively correct description.
'Blaming the mages for trying to save their lives' is perfectly valid if (a) their lives were not, in fact, in mortal peril, and (
if the efforts they tried to make were counter-productive or even self-defeating.
You can have good intentions, and still do very stupid things.
So Fiona and her mages, who had no prior military training and lived in seclusion for most of their adult lives reading books and studying, could scout in a similar fashion to Leliana's people?
If they can't, then they are militarily inept and this is another indicator that they shouldn't have been so reckless as to pick a military confrontation they weren't prepared or equipped to fight.
Of course, the mages themselves don't have to be the scouts- they could, especially if they had useful/relevant magic, but they could just hire or recruit scouts on their behalf. Just as they could have arranged spy networks, built alliances in advance, prepare fortifications or escape routes, and so on. There was even an entire fraternity based around accumulating wealth, which would have been well placed to buy and leverage the loyalty and services of mundanes. Scouts and spies are one of the easier things to get started, within a point, and could have been started well before the independence kickoff.
If you're going to purposely start an open revolt, and you are incapable of conducting basic military operations and capabilities because of inexperience, then 'inept' is a wonderful description of your revolutionary competence.
If the Tevinters really were looking for mages to boost their armed forces (which isn't a dumb thing for them to do), then treating their recruits poorly would be a good way of ensuring they didn't get any more such recruits
Lets be real here. Tevinter is not intrested in the southern mages. Alexious was intrested in the inquisitor and nothing else.
Lets be real here. Tevinter is not intrested in the southern mages. Alexious was intrested in the inquisitor and nothing else.
We know that. There's no particular reason Fiona would.
People in the real world can't be expected to assume that they're dealing with moustache twirling villains. The offer presented to Fiona wasn't as ridiculously bad as people in this thread want to represent it. Though accepting it was still a dumb move.
It wasn't objectively a bad offer for a down and out group that was cornered and had little alternative
However, when the person offering the deal is from a known group of cutthroats and murderers, and his information is not independently verified, then we are getting somewhere else
We know that. There's no particular reason Fiona would.
People in the real world can't be expected to assume that they're dealing with moustache twirling villains. The offer presented to Fiona wasn't as ridiculously bad as people in this thread want to represent it. Though accepting it was still a dumb move.
Based on all commonly-held knowledge, the Tevinter Imperium is about as close to a "mustache twirling villain" as exists in Thedas apart from the Qunari. Why else is Dorian so desperately desires change in Tevinter?
You know what irked me about Fiona? I have my Inquisitor side with the mages. So Fiona is slumming around the library all the time. Morrigan is at Skyhold and tells me how the Hero of Ferelden is looking for a cure for the Calling. Ummm, hello? You've got somebody that cured their own Calling right there in Skyhold! Come on Morrigan, pick Fiona's brain for crying out loud.
You make it sound like the same can't happen to you in Tevinter.
In fact, we know it happens in Tevinter, because it did happen to Fenris. And it also happened to Gatt (who, to boot, was a child at the time).
We know that. There's no particular reason Fiona would.
People in the real world can't be expected to assume that they're dealing with moustache twirling villains. The offer presented to Fiona wasn't as ridiculously bad as people in this thread want to represent it. Though accepting it was still a dumb move.
But Tevinter opens with slavery as their first offer. Alexius lies about having child soldiers, but there was no secret that they'd be slaves.
The biggest piece of stupidity by Fiona - starting a war she had no chances of winning, one which would completely decimate all public sympathy, so that the only place she could look for allies... was Tevinter. She pulled the trigger without majority support in the circle and knowing full well the public, Templars, half the mages, and most people under the Sun would be against her (her tacit approval of what Anders pulled in Kirkwall doesn't help matters.) This is the action of a strategic dunce.
Technically it was Lambert who started the war by interrupting a meeting sanctioned by the Divine without the Divine's authority (despite the Divine agreeing to his demands prior to the meeting). All she did in said meeting was call for a vote on independence (which was within her right) - a vote which almost certainly would have been defeated anyway due to the Libertarians' failure to enlist Wynne's support. When Lambert was directly opposing the Divine, Justinia threw her support behind the mages of the White Spire in order to prevent the Seeker/Templar coup. Fiona then called for a second vote for independence, and considering the alternative would have been death or tranquillity for most of the mages, their support for independence was justified IMO (even though I do not support full independence for the circles).
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