Don't get the hate either we pretty much had to save all the major factions and leaders since they had egg on their faces without even realizing it.
You don't legally own the person in indentured servitude. What you legally own is the right to demand work (possibly hard labor) from the person for a set amount of time, as opposed to with slavery where the person is legally yours unless and until you decide otherwise. That's not a major distinction, especially considering some of the loopholes that could be used to get extra time and the fact that at least one person was enslaved for trying to run out on his indenture despite there being some reason to believe it expired. But it is a distinction. That's not a matter of my opinion, but of what I understand the accepted definitions of legal concepts to be.
Check out what the UN Human Rights group thinks about indentured servitude and how they classify it.
Guest_Raga_*
Also, doesn't even the US constitution make an exception for "involuntary servitude" in cases of punishment for crime? If forced labor is sufficient to call something slavery than any time the government makes prisoners work, it's essentially state owned slaves.
Yea, the thirteenth amendment says "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."
Also, doesn't even the US constitution make an exception for "involuntary servitude" in cases of punishment for crime? If forced labor is sufficient to call something slavery than any time the government makes prisoners work, it's essentially state owned slaves.
Guest_Roly Voly_*
That's why chain gangs are a thing. Don't do the crime if you can't swing the hammer. Pretty easy to avoid if you just, you know, don't be a criminal.
Guest_Raga_*
Of course, that can still be abused: http://en.wikipedia....i/Convict_lease
Regardless, my point was that if "forced labor = slavery" than the US government does actually condone a form of it, or else that definition won't serve.
Also, doesn't even the US constitution make an exception for "involuntary servitude" in cases of punishment for crime? If forced labor is sufficient to call something slavery than any time the government makes prisoners work, it's essentially state owned slaves.
Yea, the thirteenth amendment says "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."
How about "forced involuntary labor"?
Not all the mages were entirely happy with Fiona's decision on their behalf
For mage freedom of course 
I don't like Fiona because she refuses to compromise unless you force her too. She's literally the only remaining person of any authority in the mage/templar debate who refuses to accept anything but getting 100% her own way unless she is forcibly conscripted. Her actions threaten to start another war, this time mages on mages. For someone who claims to be sick of death and war and pointless conflict, she seems pretty willing to impose misery on the rest of the world unless she gets her way. The only meaningful difference between this attitude and Anders is that she hasn't actually planted a bomb somewhere, but she totally seems like the kind who would condone the bomb planters by saying "it had to happen."
*Edit*
I think she also has a bit of Vivienne syndrome going on in that she has had an atypical experience as a mage - a free life outside the circle. The difference between her and Vivienne is that she is willing to see much of the world burn in order to get her shits and giggles again. Because she experienced a point in life she enjoyed more than her current life, she thinks she is entitled to the highpoint of her life indefinitely.
Fiona having a difference experience than most of the Circle mages is a good point, and I think that it's valid because it certainly shaped her view of the world. However, I don't think that she wants to see the world burn, and almost take offense to the notion that she voted for the rebellion just because she wants to enjoy her life again the way she did before...
Guest_Roly Voly_*
In honor of my current playthrough human templar warrior...
Down with Fiona, you damned rebel mage
On the day of your death, we chanted and sang
We're the Templars of Thedas, and we chug lyrium all our lives
And when Andraste Beckons, everyone of us dies
But this land is our and we'll see it wiped clean
Of the mages that have spoiled our hopes and our dreams
Can I ask what everyone considers a Mary Sue? Because I just don't see Fiona as one. I like competent characters, in fact most protagonists in BW games are super competent and almost perfect. Why is Fiona considered one exactly?
That being said I don't like Fiona in DAI because she went from a super competent character to a blundering idiot. I feel like BW shoehorned her in just as fanservice to lore fanatics and completely changed her character as a result. Honestly, I'm more upset at BW than at her, to me she's just an imposter.
When it comes to mary sues they tend to be any character a person really dislikes or hates.
Guest_Raga_*
Fiona having a difference experience than most of the Circle mages is a good point, and I think that it's valid because it certainly shaped her view of the world. However, I don't think that she wants to see the world burn, and almost take offense to the notion that she voted for the rebellion just because she wants to enjoy her life again the way she did before...
I don't think she *wants* it to burn. I just think she's willing to see it burn in order to get her way. I think her cause is more important to her than the suffering of other people (even her own people). This is why she left Tranquil and Loyalist mages out to dry. This is why she consigned her people to indentured servitude to Tevinter. This is why she refuses to accept Cassandra's reforms and threatens a new war among her own people. Knowing all that she knows would happen, she *still* says she would start the rebellion again because "it had to happen."
Does she care about people? Sure. Does she care about them more than her cause? No.
^ This and most Templar players seem to really dislike her since she wanted the vote for independence from the Chantry.When it comes to mary sues they tend to be any character a person really dislikes or hates.
When it comes to mary sues they tend to be any character a person really dislikes or hates.
So it's really just circular logic when someone says "I don't like that character because they are a Mary Sue".
"Don't like Mary Sue because she is a Mary Sue"
That's about how much stock I place that arguement; which is none.
Fiona just makes things worse. Just look at her son Alistair. 
Guest_Raga_*
A Mary Sue is a character with no flaws for whom things always turn out in the best way, usually because the writer likes the character so much they cannot bear to see them portrayed in a negative way. Bonafide Sues are extremely rare (and mostly exist in fan fiction because thankfully most editors understand how boring they are as characters), and Fiona certainly isn't one.
I am pro-Templar (sort of) and I feel bad for Fiona. I felt terrible when I had to fight her. When I learned more about her backstory I really developed a bit of a soft spot for her, she has been through a lot. And all her ties with Origins (Alistair, Duncan, etc). Yes, she made a bonehead decision with her deal but she was desperate.
Can I ask what everyone considers a Mary Sue? Because I just don't see Fiona as one. I like competent characters, in fact most protagonists in BW games are super competent and almost perfect. Why is Fiona considered one exactly?
That being said I don't like Fiona in DAI because she went from a super competent character to a blundering idiot. I feel like BW shoehorned her in just as fanservice to lore fanatics and completely changed her character as a result. Honestly, I'm more upset at BW than at her, to me she's just an imposter.
She isn't a Mary Sue but she definitely is something of a special snowflake. The established lore occasionally bends the rules for her. She first becomes pregnant as a grey warden (with king Maric's child no less.) Grey wardens supposedly cannot conceive a child due to the taint, but somehow she does. She then miraculously cures herself of the taint, so she won't eventually succumb to it as other wardens do. Bare in mind that the HoF is still attempting to achieve this in Inquisition, some thirty odd years or so later. She then goes back to the circle as she isn't of any use to the wardens, since she can no longer sense darkspawn due to her being cured of the taint. Back in the circle she quickly becomes the highest ranking mage, despite not having had anything to do with the circles for such a long time.
So whilst she isn't a Mary Sue, she's still favoured more than most characters are.
Does she care about people? Sure. Does she care about them more than her cause? No.
Literally every action she's taken thus far is for her people.
Guest_Caoimhe_*
She doesn't bother me. She's a pretty blank character imo. When she first appeared to invite me to Redcliffe, I didn't trust her one bit, but the quest if you side with the mages is worth it. If you don't like her but want to go through with it, just don't make her your ally. I did, but that's because I can't be cold in my games.
Literally every action she's taken thus far is for her people.
She isn't a Mary Sue but she definitely is something of a special snowflake. The established lore occasionally bends the rules for her. She first becomes pregnant as a grey warden (with king Maric's child no less.) Grey wardens supposedly cannot conceive a child due to the taint, but somehow she does. She then miraculously cures herself of the taint, so she won't eventually succumb to it as other wardens do. Bare in mind that the HoF is still attempting to achieve thisin Inquisition, some thirty odd years or so later. She then goes back to the circle as she isn't of any use to the wardens, since she can no longer sense darkspawn due to her being cured of the taint. Back in the circle she quickly becomes the highest ranking mage, despite not having had anything to do with the circles for such a long time.
So whilst she isn't a Mary Sue, she's still favoured more than most characters are.
Bold #1: where is this ever stated?
Bold #2: No she didn't. She was somehow cured, but she didn't cure herself. She even says that she doesn't know how it happened.
Bold #3: She didn't 'quickly' becomes the highest-ranking mage. As of 9:37 Dragon she was First Enchanter before being elected Grand Enchanter. That's a 27 year gap in between The Calling and Inquisition. Not at all inconceivable.
She isn't a Mary Sue but she definitely is something of a special snowflake. The established lore occasionally bends the rules for her. She first becomes pregnant as a grey warden (with king Maric's child no less.) Grey wardens supposedly cannot conceive a child due to the taint, but somehow she does. She then miraculously cures herself of the taint, so she won't eventually succumb to it as other wardens do. Bare in mind that the HoF is still attempting to achieve thisin Inquisition, some thirty odd years or so later. She then goes back to the circle as she isn't of any use to the wardens, since she can no longer sense darkspawn due to her being cured of the taint. Back in the circle she quickly becomes the highest ranking mage, despite not having had anything to do with the circles for such a long time.
So whilst she isn't a Mary Sue, she's still favoured more than most characters are.
First off, Grey Wardens can have children. Teh taint only makes it harder for a grey warden to have a child with a regular person and impossible for two grey wardens to have child. Maric wasn't a Warden so it isn't lore-breaking for Fiona to get pregnant. Don't forget how the HoF can get Morrigan pregnant despite being a Warden.
Second, she was cured because of an amulet that was destroyed during the process of turning her into a ghoul. She didn't get cured out of nowhere. Blame the Architect.
Third, you can have that point about becoming grand enchanter but I think it was more so that Fiona could appear again, regardless of how it was possible.
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