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[Boost32]

I hate her because i dont agree with her about anything, i dont think mages should be free, i find them stupid to go to a war they cant win, they betrayed Ferelden when they invited Tevinter into Redcliff and if you do In Hished Whisper she says "I would do everything again", she is stupid and is better off as a dead corpse, because she cant affect anyone else with her stupidty if she is dead.

[vetlet]

I think she should be available for Judgement in Skyhold. And I wouldn't be kind to her. She is as incompetent as she is insufferable.

 

 I wish I could execute Vivienne just for being a stuck-up ******.Don't join/leave isn't enough.

 

edit: wait t*wat is an unacceptable word?

[Boost32]

I wish I could execute Vivienne just for being a stuck-up ******.Don't join/leave isn't enough.

You want to execute a woman who want to help the Inquisition, at a time were you are labelled as a heretical group and have very few allies? A woman who will never betray you or leave, even if you do everething she dislike? A woman who has Done nothing wrong or jeopardized your cause?

[Balek-Vriege]

I give Fiona the benefit of the doubt on allying with Tevinter, because her actions were forced and tampered with via time magic.  The "original timeline" she immediately went to the Inquisition for an alliance by traveling to Val Royeaux, meeting with the Inquisitor personally.

 

By the time the Inquisitor travels back to Ferelden, Venatori agents lead by Alexius had used time magic to alter that original meeting, arriving first all the way from Tevinter even before Fiona met the Inquisitor (which is why she no longer remembers and feels strange etc. based on your dialogue choice).  They then secretly infiltrated the Mage rebel ranks and convinced everyone including Fiona that Templars were amassing and in the position to finally wipe them out.  That's when Alexius offered assistance and under those circumstances Fiona accepted having no other choice:  Slavery to Tevinter or annihilation by the Templars (a Venatori lie as the Templars are having their own issues at that point with Corypheus agents).

 

Again her first instincts were correct when she went to the Inquisition, but she was conned into the stupid decision by some epic tampering by the Venatori.  The only thing she could have done is try to confirm that Templars were indeed at their gates en masse.  If you look at the fighting in the Hinterlands though it's obvious there's a Templar presence at their doorstep, so it would be hard for anyone to deny the Venatori lies.

[vetlet]

You want to execute a woman who want to help the Inquisition, at a time were you are labelled as a heretical group and have very few allies? A woman who will never betray you or leave, even if you do everething she dislike? A woman who has Done nothing wrong or jeopardized your cause?

 

Never said it was rational. Just rubs me the wrong way something chronic. Like Carver, but I could leave him to die in the deep roads.

Besides, she's just in it for the power.

[Boost32]

Never said it was rational. Just rubs me the wrong way something chronic. Like Carver, but I could leave him to die in the deep roads.
Besides, she's just in it for the power.

She is in it just for the power? What power the Inquisition had when she sent the invitation for you? The power of a heretical group?

[thesuperdarkone2]

She is in it just for the power? What power the Inquisition had when she sent the invitation for you? The power of a heretical group?

She thinks the Inquisition will be on the winning side and will give her more power, possibly even Divine. Why else would she essentially convince influential members that vote for the Divine to support her if she thinks Cass should be Divine?

 

Don't forget her distaste for commoners. Vivienne is the only companion that doesn't approve of taking Vale's refugees in as she claims gold is better than a bunch of unskilled commoners, and she suggests leaving everyone in Haven to die to save yourself. Not to mention her looking down of people like the Grey Wardens.

[vetlet]

And it's an opinion. We can agree to disagree.

[Teophne]

Having not played all of DAI I skipped most of the talk here.

For me Fiona so far seems like a real person. Sure she's made mistakes and stuff but she had justified it to herself.
Her actions, while drastic, still seem honest and done out of desperation compared to for example Alexius who for me felt like he would have done what he did again even knowing what it'd cause. I'm a parent myself so I know what he's feeling but still..

All in all Fiona with her flaws still seems a likeable person. This with the background of accepting free mages as fully fledged inquisition members.

Haven't read the books though so I don't know her full story, just bots and pieces of her actions on podcasts addressing the books.

[Boost32]

She thinks the Inquisition will be on the winning side and will give her more power, possibly even Divine. Why else would she essentially convince influential members that vote for the Divine to support her if she thinks Cass should be Divine?
 
Don't forget her distaste for commoners. Vivienne is the only companion that doesn't approve of taking Vale's refugees in as she claims gold is better than a bunch of unskilled commoners, and she suggests leaving everyone in Haven to die to save yourself. Not to mention her looking down of people like the Grey Wardens.

She is in for the power, but saying just for the power is untrue, why she doesnt leave you if you do everything that goes against what she believes? The Inquisition only started to influence the Chantry decision after Halamshiral, she joins very earlier, if you do her War Table, you will se it actually hurt sheryll reputation with nobles, saying how she could side with us.
And if you save everyone in Haven she approves.

[Don Lionheart]

I give Fiona the benefit of the doubt on allying with Tevinter, because her actions were forced and tampered with via time magic.  The "original timeline" she immediately went to the Inquisition for an alliance by traveling to Val Royeaux, meeting with the Inquisitor personally.

 

By the time the Inquisitor travels back to Ferelden, Venatori agents lead by Alexius had used time magic to alter that original meeting, arriving first all the way from Tevinter even before Fiona met the Inquisitor (which is why she no longer remembers and feels strange etc. based on your dialogue choice).  They then secretly infiltrated the Mage rebel ranks and convinced everyone including Fiona that Templars were amassing and in the position to finally wipe them out.  That's when Alexius offered assistance and under those circumstances Fiona accepted having no other choice:  Slavery to Tevinter or annihilation by the Templars (a Venatori lie as the Templars are having their own issues at that point with Corypheus agents).

 

Again her first instincts were correct when she went to the Inquisition, but she was conned into the stupid decision by some epic tampering by the Venatori.  The only thing she could have done is try to confirm that Templars were indeed at their gates en masse.  If you look at the fighting in the Hinterlands though it's obvious there's a Templar presence at their doorstep, so it would be hard for anyone to deny the Venatori lies.

 

This here pretty much sums up my point of view, well said!

 

Having not played all of DAI I skipped most of the talk here.

For me Fiona so far seems like a real person. Sure she's made mistakes and stuff but she had justified it to herself.
Her actions, while drastic, still seem honest and done out of desperation compared to for example Alexius who for me felt like he would have done what he did again even knowing what it'd cause. I'm a parent myself so I know what he's feeling but still..

All in all Fiona with her flaws still seems a likeable person. This with the background of accepting free mages as fully fledged inquisition members.

Haven't read the books though so I don't know her full story, just bots and pieces of her actions on podcasts addressing the books.

 

I like this analysis of her, the whole "real person" concept is a nice change of pace from the common "special snowflake" opinion that people have expressed.  Not that I disagree with it, because I think in a lot of ways she is considered special by the writers and she's certainly among the ranks of the HoF for "Oh my God, you've done all that?!"  Hawke, on the other hand, is almost less special than Fiona in my opinion, just because it seems like anyone could have done what he did without much effort.  All it took was being skilled at combat, which a lot of characters are, while the HoF needed negotiating skills, and decision making skills, and a variety of other traits that I feel Fiona must have more of than she lets on in the game.  That said, she does also come off a fallible, sometimes extremely so, which does make her seem more realistic than some other characters can.  Interesting point, but read the books and finish the game!  Haha.

[Wulfram]

If you side with Mages, Fiona gets away annoyingly scot free for her screw up, remaining the leader of the mages and still not really doing anything useful. If you don't side with the mages, you probably don't like her much to begin with - though you might appreciate that she's a much less difficult boss for that difficult trebuchet fight.

[o Ventus]

I get the impression that people find her a special snowflake Mary-Sue. I haven't read the books so I can't agree or disagree but in the game she is entirely forgettable and I find zero reason to like or dislike her. Even her boss battle has no lead up or fanfare, just an enemy with a bigger health bar labeled Fiona. Very easy to miss.

 

If there's no reason to like her or dislike her, then she isn't a special snowflake Mary Sue.

 

That said, neither of those labels are correct. Literally the only thing that makes her stand out from any other character is the removal of the Blight within her body, which she herself didn't even accomplish. If we're going with the "siding with Tevinter" angle to hate her in DAI, then try to think critically and put yourself in Fiona's shoes. She had a (legitimate) fear that Templars were going to exterminate the rest of the mages that followed her, so she sided with the one group of people who she believed were on her side. She had no way of knowing that they were effectively doomsday cultists and served an ancient Magister (that isn't exactly something you advertise). To Fiona, they were 'sympathetic' Tevinters, or as sympathetic as Tevinters can be, given what we know of them. I would argue that she didn't make the right choice, but that would require the scenario to be viewed in hindsight (and thus irrelevant, since it would then be confirmation bias), but that's no reason to hate her. It wasn't as if she forced the other mages to go with her to the Venatori, they went with her willingly. Those who opposed it left.

[Don Lionheart]

For the first camp it is the combination of factors, "I'm a badass grey warden! Now I'm the first and only known person to become free of the taint, and no is bothering to study me to figure out how the heck that happened. Now I'm the mother of a main character! Now I'm failing upwards and becoming grand enchanter." This is the sort of crappy writing that you see in fan fiction....BAD fan fiction. There is the argument that PCs also have special snow flake syndrome, but a. that doesn't mean it is good writing, b. it is generally possible to downplay that somewhat as a PC in Bioware games, and c. it still reminds people of bad fan fiction which is the sort of stuff that infuriates people to no end.

 

I would sypathize with her somewhat, except for the fact that she outright says that she would do it again. This is not a sympathetic character. This is a moron who is incapable of understanding how badly she f'ed up and due to her position of authority is going to continue f'ing things up for the mages.

 

 

Ser Badass Barris is so much better than Fiona. He does more to help mages by himself in a single war table mission than Fiona does over the entire game. He is dedicated to the Templar's true mission of protecting both mages and normal people. You might not be able to talk to him in Skyhold, but that is because he is out in the world being awesome and helping people.

 

I guess the problems the first group has doesn't really bother me.  Her being swept around like that may seem like bad writing when you see it written out like that, it certainly sounds contrived, but if you look at the individual plot lines, they're well crafted, even if the narrative is somewhat ridiculous when summed up in a sentence.  See, I think her saying she would do it again means if she were in the same position, she would make the same choice, which, as I expressed above, I understand her making.  I can't fault her for doing what is best for her people in a time of desperation (which is the same reason, more or less, that I spared Loghain in DA:O and again in DA:I), and even if I did find fault, it goes doubly so for a situation involving time travel where she had made the right decision without that meddling.  As far as the Templars go, shhh, no spoilers, I have no idea what that side of the mission is like, haha.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 I do not hate, Fiona, really. It takes a lot of effort for any character to reach that point for me, and only few have achieved it. I do not have to hate her to recognize what a worthless idiot she is. In fact I have a shameful crush on her character. She is very cute, but, still worthless and idiotic.

 

If anything, I rather enjoy how bad she makes her own stance look.

[DeathScepter]

Fiona is a Mary Sue that became an Anti Sue. So another words, A special Snowflake that became a worthless idiot. There should be a healthy balance of being capable while not making them a Mary Sue.

[phaonica]

I don't hate her. She screwed up, but part of me can understand why she did it.

[rapscallioness]

I don't hate the character per se. I just greatly disapprove of how the character was handled.

 

She's Alistair's mom? What happened to the scullery maid that--depending on who you ask--Maric either forced himself on, or she was starstruck..or a little bit of both? That died giving birth to Alistair, and whose young daughter was cruelly turned out to the streets with almost nothing cuz she might spill the beans.

 

Goldana. The insufferable shrew whose tongue I tried desperately to cut out in DAO, but the game wouldn't let me. Oh! Oh, no, that was alllll just some elaborate ruse! Wow, that Goldana sure is a good actor....

 

No. Just, no. The hand waving on that was lame as all get out. And for what? It was not necessary for her to even be Alistair's mom.  The whole thing was just stupid.  I don't like saying that word, but I'm sorry, it was stupid as heck.

 

So then here she comes in my game. Standing around being stupid. They drowned the character of Fiona. They used her to hold up and put together too many plot pieces. Fiona as a character is lumbering under the weight of it all. They threw all that stuff on her shoulders, and then again for what?

 

In the end they can't even give her a proper send off. I didn't even know I was killing her until the last minute when I saw a brief flicker of the letters, "FIO..." Ack, she's dead. Me: "Oh, shyte. Wait. What? Did I just kill Fiona?" The once grand leader of the mage rebellion...and all that other stuff. That succumbed to Corypheus in the end..deserved a better end moment then being lost in a sea of random mooks.

 

A short scene letting the player know she's there and fighting you. And knows she's prolly gonna die. Or maybe even get a chance to talk her over to helping you after all. But at least a scene letting me know she's there. They threw her under the bus. After all that.

 

As far as how she acted in DAI, I thought she was foolish to say the least. But I can rationalize it, and work it out. So, it's not so much the character I dislike, as much as the way they handled this character that I did not like.

 

Hell, I would have rather have seen Goldana. I would have loved to have seen Goldana. Shrew that she was she could take on Cory herself.

 

Cory: "Bow before your new god and be spaaaared."

 

Goldana: "Psssh, I don't know you, Boy!"

[DaySeeker]

If there's no reason to like her or dislike her, then she isn't a special snowflake Mary Sue.

 

That said, neither of those labels are correct. Literally the only thing that makes her stand out from any other character is the removal of the Blight within her body, which she herself didn't even accomplish. If we're going with the "siding with Tevinter" angle to hate her in DAI, then try to think critically and put yourself in Fiona's shoes. She had a (legitimate) fear that Templars were going to exterminate the rest of the mages that followed her, so she sided with the one group of people who she believed were on her side. She had no way of knowing that they were effectively doomsday cultists and served an ancient Magister (that isn't exactly something you advertise). To Fiona, they were 'sympathetic' Tevinters, or as sympathetic as Tevinters can be, given what we know of them. I would argue that she didn't make the right choice, but that would require the scenario to be viewed in hindsight (and thus irrelevant, since it would then be confirmation bias), but that's no reason to hate her. It wasn't as if she forced the other mages to go with her to the Venatori, they went with her willingly. Those who opposed it left.

 

Everyone knows of Tevinter, the idea that she and her mages would be anything but fodder or slaves to them is ludicrous. Also, Redcliffe has mages in it who voted against the alliance and were forced to go along with it.  She could have reached out to a variety of sources including the Inquisition and the crown, but instead, she hurried into a Tevinter alliance which apparently she didn't look into at all.

 

For me the "I never went to Oralis" thing stuck in my craw, feels like a stupid lie and is never explained, if it is time magic, something that has never before existed inDA, the rules of time travel need to be laid down or hinted at.  I kinda think the problem with Fiona is the bad writing and set-up for that quest that does no one any favors.

[Fast Jimmy]

Don't hate the player.

 

 

 

Hate the game.

[Herr Uhl]

 

For me the "I never went to Oralis" thing stuck in my craw, feels like a stupid lie and is never explained, if it is time magic, something that has never before existed inDA, the rules of time travel need to be laid down or hinted at.  I kinda think the problem with Fiona is the bad writing and set-up for that quest that does no one any favors.

 

I thought that was just an envy demon, like the one that impersonates Lambert.

[Navasha]

I have to say I don't get the hate either.   I assume you have to have read the books to hate her.   Only seeing her in DA:I is far too little content to generate such extreme emotion about her.

 

From my understanding, the mages of the circles wanted to vote on independence.   The vote won with but a slim margin and Fiona, as grand enchanter, followed the will of that vote.    I don't see what is so horrible about that.

 

She obviously fell into the scheme of Alexius and was tricked into an alliance under false pretenses.   Again... nothing really worthy of actual hatred there.  

 

My guess is there are a lot of anti-mage people that are looking for further rationalization for their hatred.    Or... they read the books.    Nothing in DA:I generates that emotion for me.  

[Mirth]

I give Fiona the benefit of the doubt on allying with Tevinter, because her actions were forced and tampered with via time magic.  The "original timeline" she immediately went to the Inquisition for an alliance by traveling to Val Royeaux, meeting with the Inquisitor personally.
 
By the time the Inquisitor travels back to Ferelden, Venatori agents lead by Alexius had used time magic to alter that original meeting, arriving first all the way from Tevinter even before Fiona met the Inquisitor (which is why she no longer remembers and feels strange etc. based on your dialogue choice).  They then secretly infiltrated the Mage rebel ranks and convinced everyone including Fiona that Templars were amassing and in the position to finally wipe them out.  That's when Alexius offered assistance and under those circumstances Fiona accepted having no other choice:  Slavery to Tevinter or annihilation by the Templars (a Venatori lie as the Templars are having their own issues at that point with Corypheus agents).
 
Again her first instincts were correct when she went to the Inquisition, but she was conned into the stupid decision by some epic tampering by the Venatori.  The only thing she could have done is try to confirm that Templars were indeed at their gates en masse.  If you look at the fighting in the Hinterlands though it's obvious there's a Templar presence at their doorstep, so it would be hard for anyone to deny the Venatori lies.

She may have signed with Tevinter out of desperation, but here YOU are... inquisition, seeking the mages aid. Seems to me like a good time to go "ya know what Tevinter? Nvm. We're going to ally with the Inquisition instead. We aren't interested in slavery."
She never put joining tevinter to vote, as that would have been rejected by the majority of the mages. I only met 1 mage who supported the decision.
They were under no obligation to honor the alliance with tevinter, as long as they are on ferleden soil.

She never balks. Even when having options, she's still ready to go the slavery route.

Even 'after' you defeat Alexius, she STILL balks at your offer. Allister is kicking her out, and she's like "I've got no other choice, but to help you on your terms..."

[Balek-Vriege]

I don't hate the character per se. I just greatly disapprove of how the character was handled.

 

She's Alistair's mom? What happened to the scullery maid that--depending on who you ask--Maric either forced himself on, or she was starstruck..or a little bit of both? That died giving birth to Alistair, and whose young daughter was cruelly turned out to the streets with almost nothing cuz she might spill the beans.

 

Goldana. The insufferable shrew whose tongue I tried desperately to cut out in DAO, but the game wouldn't let me. Oh! Oh, no, that was alllll just some elaborate ruse! Wow, that Goldana sure is a good actor....

 

No. Just, no. The hand waving on that was lame as all get out. And for what? It was not necessary for her to even be Alistair's mom.  The whole thing was just stupid.  I don't like saying that word, but I'm sorry, it was stupid as heck.

 

So then here she comes in my game. Standing around being stupid. They drowned the character of Fiona. They used her to hold up and put together too many plot pieces. Fiona as a character is lumbering under the weight of it all. They threw all that stuff on her shoulders, and then again for what?

 

In the end they can't even give her a proper send off. I didn't even know I was killing her until the last minute when I saw a brief flicker of the letters, "FIO..." Ack, she's dead. Me: "Oh, shyte. Wait. What? Did I just kill Fiona?" The once grand leader of the mage rebellion...and all that other stuff. That succumbed to Corypheus in the end..deserved a better end moment then being lost in a sea of random mooks.

 

A short scene letting the player know she's there and fighting you. And knows she's prolly gonna die. Or maybe even get a chance to talk her over to helping you after all. But at least a scene letting me know she's there. They threw her under the bus. After all that.

 

As far as how she acted in DAI, I thought she was foolish to say the least. But I can rationalize it, and work it out. So, it's not so much the character I dislike, as much as the way they handled this character that I did not like.

 

Hell, I would have rather have seen Goldana. I would have loved to have seen Goldana. Shrew that she was she could take on Cory herself.

 

Cory: "Bow before your new god and be spaaaared."

 

Goldana: "Psssh, I don't know you, Boy!"

 

I'm pretty sure Goldana was his half-sister as Maric was known to sleep around a bit.  The maid stories are mostly true except for the fact that Alistair wasn't born from one of them.  The Alistair maid mother story was made up to protect him and also Maric.  Having a bastard son born to an Orlesian Warden Elven Mage, older than your legitimate heir would not go over well at court.

 

Also even in DAO it was suspected that someone like Fiona was Alistair's mother if I remember correctly before the novels.  It was one of those theory things along the  lines of "is the Black City Arlathan?" or "are old gods elven gods?" but a bit less epic and now explained.

[Violetbliss]

I don't hate her at all. She comes off to me as a character that was thrust into leadership, and is competent at best at her job, using her passion only to bring the vote to bear and then realizing that it is just the beginning of the climb. With the Chantry not exactly on their side, a large portion of Thedas' citizens and the templars hunting her and her other mages, it's not a huge wonder she didn't think she had much room to be picky about allies. I also sincerely doubt that Alexius was all-honest with her - she probably wanted to trust a fellow mage, not a political animal with a hidden agenda.

 

I haven't read the novel though, and I can totally understand dislike born from mary sue or writer's pet status. It's always unfortunate when that happens in a narrative.