Mine aren't mixed. I hate them. Similarly, I think that "important enemy NPC surviving battle in gameplay in order to have a cutscene" is incredibly obnoxious and stupid.
Yeah, but I like the interaction. And without it the antagonist becomes a faceless mook.
Since I'm for mage freedoms.. Fiona is a "good guy". Those who like to be jailers (ie: templars), then Fiona is a rebel to be put down like a rabid dog.
And that is the Tall and Short of it.
I disagree with you, Fiona was there leading the rebel mages to attack you, there is no need for any kind of dialogue, you are running against the time, why you would try to talk to her?
She got what she deserved, to be forgotten and left buried under the snow.
Who said anything about dialog? There need not be any conversation to point out her showing up and/or buying the farm, and a brief scene would have at least prevented a "I killed who?" moment later.
Mine aren't mixed. I hate them. Similarly, I think that "important enemy NPC surviving battle in gameplay in order to have a cutscene" is incredibly obnoxious and stupid.
It'd have been better perhaps to have something like in Champions of the Just, where the Templars during the fighting have ambient dialogue where they are trying to reason with their turned comrades?
It could have been so easy to have a line of dialogue where the Inquisitor asks her why she's doing this? Or giving her some battle dialogue, which could have perhaps answered our questions of whether she was being controlled or not? And if she was indeed being controlled, some kind of Benezia-esque momentary awakening after we've got her at low health, would have been ideal to convey that?
Who said anything about dialog? There need not be any conversation to point out her showing up and/or buying the farm, and a brief scene would have at least prevented a "I killed who?" moment later.
Yup, just needed... something. A cut scene when she shows up with someone in the party (preferably a mage who would recognize her) going "Fiona?? What happened to you?" and she just grunts or something and attacks.
Interaction can be had without destroying suspension of disbelief, and my suspension of disbelief goes out the window when Shepard decides to stop murderkilling Saren just so she can listen to his fiendish, devilish plan, or when the Hero of Ferelden suspends a death duel so Loghain can get some character development as a loving father and so Riordan can create the false Loghain-Alistair dilemma.
The duel with Loghain wasn't that bad. Loghain actually explicitly says "Okay, I lose, you can stop now." You're supposed to stop trying to kill him at that point. (Though I'll also note that that doesn't stop Alistair if you put him in the ring.)
Well, personally, I always had a lot of fun hearing mages try to explain why they absolutely had no other choice and I'm like "Well, let me check if I still have any damns to give...Nope, sorry. I spent them all on my mother's cold corpse."
Now that I've read this, I must say that I think the first group's concerns about her are overridden because it's explained that she only went back to the Circle because the she could not become a Warden again. Grey Wardens are not infertile, they just have a hard time having children in the first place, so Fiona having the baby is completely reasonable if not a difficult thing to have accomplished. The way I saw it is she's no different than any PC who happens to have a lot of good and incredible things happen to her. However I do agree that the Goldanna quest conflict is somewhat unsettling, especially because I had never considered the impact Fiona being Alistair's mother had on that.[/quote]
She stated that she found adoptive parents for Alistair, (and given that he doesn't know and is never implied in any of the canon that he knows or suspects that she's his mother) so as far he knows Goldana is his half-sister. The reason for the convoluted cover-up was because it's stated in The Stolen Throne that the common people would NEVER accept Maric having an elf as his queen, and Fiona knows this as well. She also states that she didn't want Alistair to be involve in the court or to be king because of how being miserable being was to Maric and she didn't want that for her son.
I still dont see why they should have wasted resource on Fiona, I will insist the treatment she got was what she deserved.
Because killing a character as important and developed as Fiona in such a way feels cheap (just like killing Morinth as a named banshee in ME3 felt cheap). I think the templars got exactly what they deserved, but their motivations are still explained. But Fiona? They went to great lengths to establish that she really hates darkspawn, and now she helps one without an explanation? That's just stupid.
Because killing a character as important and developed as Fiona in such a way feels cheap (just like killing Morinth as a named banshee in ME3 felt cheap). I think the templars got exactly what they deserved, but their motivations are still explained. But Fiona? They went to great lengths to establish that she really hates darkspawn, and now she helps one without an explanation? That's just stupid.
But Fiona being stupid is normal, there is no need to explain it.
With it being clear that the Rebellion is losing the war, with the Templars about to bust down the door and a lot of people in Thedas thinking you're possibly reponsible for killing the Divine, taking the option to let your people have safe harbour in Tevinter as free citizens, in exchange for ten years of indentured service, isn't a particularly bad deal on the face of it?
(Especially when you recall that Hawke went through a year of indentured service in DA2 to pay off the debt they owed to the people who got them into Kirkwall?)
Besides, we're told that Alexius miraculously showed up two days after the Conclave was destroyed, implying that he went back in time to before the Inquisition was even formed, thus ensuring that his would be the only offer on the table?
Judging purely from what we can see in the games and read in the books, Fiona declared independence without any infrastructure in place to support a rebellion, with no allies or spies or bargaining chips.
She is pretty stupid.
Well when the alternative was going to back to the Templars, mass Tranquility and possibly executions are you really surprised? Besides how exactly does one recruit spies, create bargaining chips or forge alliances when your a prisoner? And I'm not totally sure that she didn't have allies anyway, she did get Fereldan to work with her.Judging purely from what we can see in the games and read in the books, Fiona declared independence without any infrastructure in place to support a rebellion, with no allies or spies or bargaining chips.
She is pretty stupid.
Well when the alternative was going to back to the Templars, mass Tranquility and possibly executions are you really surprised? Besides how exactly does one recruit spies, create bargaining chips or forge alliances when your a prisoner? And I'm not totally sure that she didn't have allies anyway, she did get Fereldan to work with her.
Edit: Also Fiona didn't declare independence, she just put forward the motion for it, the other groups did vote.
She should have been more careful about putting forward the motion for it at all without all of those resources. As for finding spies outside the Circle, I don't know how she would go about it, but Orsino (who is himself not the brightest to judge by his actions at the end of the game) managed it fairly well in the worst Circle there is, so while White Spire is repressive it should still have been possible there. Allies are also fairly easy, since the nobles seem to recruit mages from the Circles pretty freely judging by Meghren's mage, the mages at Ostagar, and the fact that Eamon had already tried magic before Isolde resorted to trying to find the Urn of Sacred Ashes.
Judging purely from what we can see in the games and read in the books, Fiona declared independence without any infrastructure in place to support a rebellion, with no allies or spies or bargaining chips.
She is pretty stupid.
As others said above, Fiona just put forward the motion, so the fault is not hers, but every mage who happened to agree to it. It's also funny how no-one ever seems to lay any blame on Rhys, despite him being one of the main reason that the vote happened to swing in her favour?
I also have to wonder how exactly does anyone plan to build any kind the infrastructure to support a mass breakout from a system of Alcatraz Hogwarts' without alerting the guards a long time before you're ready to embark over the fence?
Besides, we're told that Alexius miraculously showed up two days after the Conclave was destroyed, implying that he went back in time to before the Inquisition was even formed, thus ensuring that his would be the only offer on the table?
Apart from the one they'd already received from Ferelden, you mean?
Apart from the one they'd already received from Ferelden, you mean?
Apart from the one they'd already received from Ferelden, you mean?
The one that doesn't matter because we can see that there are rogue Templars in the Hinterlands stirring up trouble, coupled with the actual Templars in Therinfal who haven't gone axe-crazy (before the Red Lyrium, I mean), but are still about ten minutes from kicking down the door anyway?
If the Templars are willing to tell the Chantry to stuff it while they go hunt the mages, do you really think they'll care that Ferelden might object to them storming Redcliffe and burning the entire town to the ground?
Well when the alternative was going to back to the Templars, mass Tranquility and possibly executions are you really surprised? Besides how exactly does one recruit spies, create bargaining chips or forge alliances when your a prisoner? And I'm not totally sure that she didn't have allies anyway, she did get Fereldan to work with her.
Edit: Also Fiona didn't declare independence, she just put forward the motion for it, the other groups did vote.
I'm surprised she thought calling for a vote on independence in Val Royeaux, while surrounded by thousands upon thousands of Templars and soldiers and Chevaliers with only 12 or so First Enchanters backing you plus a couple hundreds in the White Spire would be a good idea.
Ok, let's say they vote for independence? What was she going to do next? Go on a hunger strike?
The one that doesn't matter because we can see that there are rogue Templars in the Hinterlands stirring up trouble, coupled with the actual Templars in Therinfal who haven't gone axe-crazy (before the Red Lyrium, I mean), but are still about ten minutes from kicking down the door anyway?
If the Templars are willing to tell the Chantry to stuff it while they go hunt the mages, do you really think they'll care that Ferelden might object to them storming Redcliffe and burning the entire town to the ground?
One might assume that's why Ferelden advised them to gather near what everyone describes as a supercastle. And if that's not enough I don't see why the Tevinter reinforcements would be. As for Alexius's proposed plan of getting out of there, fleeing the country might seem like a good idea on the surface, but if you think about it for two seconds you start wondering why the Templars you're pretty sure have the military wherewithal to take down a castle that's supposed to have been able to hold against Ogres and Emissaries can't destroy a few wagon trains.
Which obviously wasn't working if the Templar attacks were carrying on regardless.
The mages actively suffering from that were the ones she disavowed, weren't they? While I think of her washing her hands of those rebel mages as a bit irresponsible, the fact remains that those she was willing to own up to were from all I can tell uninvolved in that and could have just gone into the castle when the Templars were done with that bit of business. (Unless you think "sanctuary" comes with a caveat that you're not allowed to hide in the local castle when the people you're seeking sanctuary from come calling.)
I'm surprised she thought calling for a vote on independence in Val Royeaux, while surrounded by thousands upon thousands of Templars and soldiers and Chevaliers with only 12 or so First Enchanters backing you plus a couple hundreds in the White Spire would be a good idea.
Ok, let's say they vote for independence? What was she going to do next? Go on a hunger strike?
One might assume that's why Ferelden advised them to gather near what everyone describes as a supercastle.
A supercastle that they are not currently inside of, nor have control over?
Back when the Rebellion was offered safe harbour in Redcliffe, Arl Teagan was the one in the castle, until the Venatori somehow managed to seize control of it. Even so, that just means the Venatori now hold the castle, not the Rebellion who still seem to be stuck in the town?
One might assume that's why Ferelden advised them to gather near what everyone describes as a supercastle. And if that's not enough I don't see why the Tevinter reinforcements would be. As for Alexius's proposed plan of getting out of there, fleeing the country might seem like a good idea on the surface, but if you think about it for two seconds you start wondering why the Templars you're pretty sure have the military wherewithal to take down a castle that's supposed to have been able to hold against Ogres and Emissaries can't destroy a few wagon trains.
The mages actively suffering from that were the ones she disavowed, weren't they? While I think of her washing her hands of those rebel mages as a bit irresponsible, the fact remains that those she was willing to own up to were from all I can tell uninvolved in that and could have just gone into the castle when the Templars were done with that bit of business. (Unless you think "sanctuary" comes with a caveat that you're not allowed to hide in the local castle when the people you're seeking sanctuary from come calling.)
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