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[Lumix19]

In which case, the Templars simply take it upon themselves to defeat them regardless of the Divine's wish.

Perhaps there shouldn't have been a vote. Considering that the freedom of mages is something that affects more than mages, such a vote should require the input of Templars, priests and secular authority.

Which is what happened but I doubt what was anticipated. The Templars have always been seen as the militant arm of the Chantry so betraying the very organization that proclaims to be the voice of the faith is quite a step. Justinia always walked a fine line with Lambert but I think she either expected him to back down or play his hand, and he did the latter. She does play the Game after all so collateral is expected.

[Boost32]

Which is what happened but I doubt what was anticipated. The Templars have always been seen as the militant arm of the Chantry so betraying the very organization that proclaims to be the voice of the faith is quite a step. Justinia always walked a fine line with Lambert but I think she either expected him to back down or play his hand, and he did the latter. She does play the Game after all so collateral is expected.

The Divine betrayed the templars, she send assassins to kill them, they are more than right to leave the treacherous Divine

[MisterJB]

I would have just sent some Venatori posing as Circle mages.

[thesuperdarkone2]

The Divine betrayed the templars, she send assassins rio kill them, they are more than right to leave the treacherous Divine

Considering literally nothing good is ever said of Lambert and practically everyone praises Justinia, I guess we know which was was right.

[Boost32]

Considering literally nothing good is ever said of Lambert and practically everyone praises Justinia, I guess we know which was was right.

Because everyone knows what she did. And she was a controversial Divine, even Cassandra said she would not be elected if the Chantry knew about her ideas.

[MisterJB]

Considering literally nothing good is ever said of Lambert and practically everyone praises Justinia, I guess we know which was was right.

Lol, popular opinion equals truth.

The world must be plane and the sun rotates around the Earth, lol.

[MisterJB]

I wonder if Justinia recanted her views as mages killed her. I imagine Thrask did.

[The Baconer]

I wonder if Justinia recanted her views as mages killed her. I imagine Thrask did it.

 

Why would she?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Considering literally nothing good is ever said of Lambert and practically everyone praises Justinia, I guess we know which was was right.

I don't praise her. Her decision to spread the Tranquility cure was a poor decision*. Lambert was entirely correct about how it would be used. And I'm not sure how bright it was to go behind Lambert's back.

 

*At least in the context of what she knew. Lambert was aware that at least some cured Tranquil are immune to possession. The Chantry and Circle should have been experimenting with that for centuries trying to understand it. Any morally good mage who can be futher rendered immune to possession (the worst threat a mage can pose, and one even a skilled and benevolent mage can accidentally fall into) is one that no longer needs to stay in the Circle.

[Boost32]

I wonder if Justinia recanted her views as mages killed her. I imagine Thrask did.

Fiona, Justinia and now Thrask, there is a lot of incompetence in this thread.

[MisterJB]

Why would she?

You know what I am trying to say. Pro-mage killed by mages and due to her own actions taken in defense of mages.

If you have a point, please present it.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Fiona, Justinia and now Thrask, there is a lot of incompetence in this thread.

Let's not skate over Lambert.

[The Baconer]

You know what I am trying to say.

 

We both know it's inane.

 

Pro-mage killed by mages and due to her own actions taken in defense of mages.

 

And? A pro-Templar Hawke will be evicted from Kirkwall by Templars, but no one is actually going to spin that into "Templars are too dangerous to be trusted" and expect to be taken seriously.

[Lumix19]

The Divine betrayed the templars, she send assassins to kill them, they are more than right to leave the treacherous Divine

When did she send assassins to kill them? If you mean she sent Leliana to help the mages then you might recall that this was after Lambert had defied the direct order of the Divine to allow them the meeting.

[Boost32]

When did she send assassins to kill them? If you mean she sent Leliana to help the mages then you might recall that this was after Lambert had defied the direct order of the Divine to allow them the meeting.

So punish Lambert and not those man who where under her leadership.

[MisterJB]

We both know it's inane.

It is not.

 

 

And? A pro-Templar Hawke will be evicted from Kirkwall by Templars, but no one is actually going to SPIN that into "Templars are too dangerous to be trusted" and expect to be taken seriously.

It is a valid argument. I would phrase it as "If Hawke trusted the Templars to remain at current strength despite the fact it was how they were disproportionally strong when compared to other factions within Kirkwall that lead to Meredith assuming control, then he is a dolt."

[Bad King]

So punish Lambert and not those man who where under her leadership.

 

She only attacked the Templars of the White Spire (not the entire order) who were under Lambert's influence and actively following his orders. In an ideal world, misled soldiers shouldn't have to die, but the Divine had no choice in this case but to take them all on. There was no way she could have punished Lambert alone as he had all of Val Royeaux's Templars defending him.

[Boost32]

She only attacked the Templars of the White Spire (not the entire order) who were under Lambert's influence and actively following his orders. In an ideal world, misled soldiers shouldn't have to die, but the Divine had no choice in this case but to take them all on. There was no way she could have punished Lambert alone as he had all of Val Royeaux's Templars defending him.

In a ideal world the Divine would be competent.
She had a choice, she choose poorly and her actions brought a lot of death (even her own) and her betrayal led the Seekers and the templars away.

[thesuperdarkone2]

In a ideal world the Divine would be competent.
She had a choice, she choose poorly and her actions brought a lot of death (even her own) and her betrayal led the Seekers and the templars away.

And how exactly would she punish Lambert if none of the Templars in the White Spire would agree to turn him over?

[thesuperdarkone2]

When did she send assassins to kill them? If you mean she sent Leliana to help the mages then you might recall that this was after Lambert had defied the direct order of the Divine to allow them the meeting.

Apparently if you don't just accept repression, you are wrong and deserve to die is the motto of the average templar supporter.

[Bad King]

In a ideal world the Divine would be competent.
She had a choice, she choose poorly and her actions brought a lot of death (even her own) and her betrayal led the Seekers and the templars away.

 

Whether or not she made the right choice is another discussion entirely. We were discussing whether she betrayed the Templars and nothing that you have posted so far leads me to consider this to be the case. She acted against Templars who were accomplice to a rogue Seeker - she didn't attack the order itself only those within it who had disobeyed her. Lambert later removed any Templar leaders who disagreed with him (replacing them with yes men) and made the Templar Order go rogue. Lambert and the Val Royeaux Templars betrayed the Divine, not vice versa.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Whether or not she made the right choice is another discussion entirely. We were discussing whether she betrayed the Templars and nothing that you have posted so far leads me to consider this to be the case. She acted against Templars who were accomplice to a rogue Seeker - she didn't attack the order itself only those within it who had disobeyed her. Lambert later removed any Templar leaders who disagreed with him (replacing them with yes men) and made the Templar Order go rogue. Lambert and the Val Royeaux Templars betrayed the Divine, not vice versa.

Funny how mage supporters actually use research and logic instead of assumptions like certain people

[Boost32]

Whether or not she made the right choice is another discussion entirely. We were discussing whether she betrayed the Templars and nothing that you have posted so far leads me to consider this to be the case. She acted against Templars who were accomplice to a rogue Seeker - she didn't attack the order itself only those within it who had disobeyed her. Lambert later removed any Templar leaders who disagreed with him (replacing them with yes men) and made the Templar Order go rogue. Lambert and the Val Royeaux Templars betrayed the Divine, not vice versa.

She betrayed them. The meeting was not about mages leaving the Circkes , it was about reforms, Lambert overreacted, but he didn't betrayed the Divine.
We already discussed this, I'm not going to repeat everything again.

[Lumix19]

She betrayed them. The meeting was not about mages leaving the Circkes , it was about reforms, Lambert overreacted, but he didn't betrayed the Divine.
We already discussed this, I'm not going to repeat everything again.

I believe that technically the meeting was actually about the implications of the reverse of the Rite of Tranquility (though I'm not sure) but the mages are free to talk about anything they want during the meeting. If Lambert really had a problem he should have gone and told the Divine rather than trying to kill everyone.

[Bad King]

She betrayed them. The meeting was not about mages leaving the Circkes , it was about reforms, Lambert overreacted, but he didn't betrayed the Divine.
We already discussed this, I'm not going to repeat everything again.

 

The Divine didn't demand that any particular topic be discussed. The mages were free to discuss any topic they wished. Any interruption by the Templars to a conclave sanctioned by the Divine would have required the Divine's approval, unless in retaliation for the use of violence by the mages against them.

 

It's astounding that there are still people defending Lambert on this - the book makes it very clear that he was overstepping his bounds by using force against the mages during a peaceful debate sanctioned by the Divine.