1363 réponses à ce sujet

[Lumix19]

Except that the conversation seems to me to imply that there were already mages inside the castle. And it was my understanding that the deal that allowed the mages into Redcliffe at all was with Anora/Alistair/both, not Alexius. Not to mention that the easiest way to reconcile how easily the Tevinters took Redcliffe with how hard it is supposed to be to get in unless you've been allowed to is if the Tevinters took advantage of the pre-existing deal with the mage rebellion by pretending to be part of it like they did in order to trick Fiona into taking their bargain. (This would not be quite as effective if the rebel mages were not allowed into the castle.)
 
Edit: As for your basic conclusion that Fiona didn't deliberately screw Teagan over, I think you're right. Her understanding of the plan, as I understand it, is that they were all going to flee to Tevinter in short order. That not only doesn't require taking over Redcliffe castle but is something from which doing so is a dangerous distraction. Which leads me to think that that was another of the plans Alexius had that she wasn't in on. I've several times communicated a belief that she's stupid and shortsighted, but I don't think she's malicious.
 



Considering that we have seen no evidence so far that Teagan is a heartless *******, I would be more inclined to think those who don't think he'd let the mages into his castle should have to provide evidence. (Not to mention that I think the first sentence of my response to Xilizhra provides weak evidence that he did allow them in.)

It's possible Teagan was part of the Tevinter-rebel negotiations though. If they were in his castle and under his protection I can't imagine that the deal between Fiona and Alexius went on without his knowledge.

[Steelcan]

I'm saying that they didn't ally with Alexius until he'd taken over the castle.

right, why do I ever expect straightforwards answers from you

[TheJediSaint]

right, why do I ever expect straightforwards answers from you

Eternal optimism?

[Xilizhra]

right, why do I ever expect straightforwards answers from you

I'll try and speak slowly for you, dear. I know it's difficult to follow.

 

/Vivienne

[Steelcan]

Eternal optimism?

I am so renowned for my ever sunny disposition

[Lady Artifice]

I believe I may have just witnessed the most epic moment of snark in the history of the BSN. 

 

Reading this thread has been worth it, after all. 

[TheJediSaint]

I am so renowned for my ever sunny disposition

That helmet of yours is pretty shiny.

[Steelcan]

That helmet of yours is pretty shiny.

aye but its from England, and there's not been a sunny outlook there since the last ice age

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

It's possible Teagan was part of the Tevinter-rebel negotiations though. If they were in his castle and under his protection I can't imagine that the deal between Fiona and Alexius went on without his knowledge.

It's plausible I suppose, but on the other hand Teagan can't be watching literally every corner of his castle at literally every moment, so it's not necessary that he be in on it.

 

If you talk to Fiona in Skyhold, she tells you that the mage rebellion was infiltrated by Venatori spies before Alexius showed up. If those spies entered the castle first, they could laid the way open for Alexius to move in, and then make the deal with Fiona... and, as I said before, it doesn't matter whether Teagan would have let them inside or not, because the question of allying with Tevinter or not didn't come up until Alexius had already moved in.

If Alexius did not make the deal with Fiona until he'd already taken over Redcliffe Castle, then I agree that it doesn't matter whether Teagan would have let the mages into the castle for protection, or at least it does not matter for the purposes of Fiona's Best Alternative to a Negotiated Agreement. And of course if Alexius had done that before he'd negotiated with Fiona it would have been a good reason for Fiona to feel she had to take his deal or else. But I'd always thought he'd done it in the opposite order.

[Lumix19]

It's plausible I suppose, but on the other hand Teagan can't be watching literally every corner of his castle at literally every moment, so it's not necessary that he be in on it.

If Alexius did not make the deal with Fiona until he'd already taken over Redcliffe Castle, then I agree that it doesn't matter whether Teagan would have let the mages into the castle for protection, or at least it does not matter for the purposes of Fiona's Best Alternative to a Negotiated Agreement. And of course if Alexius had done that before he'd negotiated with Fiona it would have been a good reason for Fiona to feel she had to take his deal or else. But I'd always thought he'd done it in the opposite order.

Well no he can't be watching every bit of the castle. But Tevinter coming up to your castle to make a deal with the mages you are providing sanctuary for, is not easy to miss.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Well no he can't be watching every bit of the castle. But Tevinter coming up to your castle to make a deal with the mages you are providing sanctuary for, is not easy to miss.

If he quietly insinuates himself into the castle by using time magic to infiltrate the mages you're already allowing in, and approaches her with the deal quietly and carefully, it can be.

[Lumix19]

If he quietly insinuates himself into the castle by using time magic to infiltrate the mages you're already allowing in, and approaches her with the deal quietly and carefully, it can be.

Doesn't Clemence seem to indicate there was no secrecy concerning Alexius' arrival?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Doesn't Clemence seem to indicate there was no secrecy concerning Alexius' arrival?

There's nothing stopping him from sneaking in to speak with Fiona and then sneaking out to get some of his non-mage soldiers to arrive with. Though I'm not sure Clemence specifically states that he arrived openly even once, and arriving at nightfall does seem to indicate that he wasn't trying to be flashy.

[Lumix19]

There's nothing stopping him from sneaking in to speak with Fiona and then sneaking out to get some of his non-mage soldiers to arrive with. Though I'm not sure Clemence specifically states that he arrived openly even once, and arriving at nightfall does seem to indicate that he wasn't trying to be flashy.

True so I suppose it's possible. Though kind of overly-complicated.

[Ranadiel Marius]

I'm saying that they didn't ally with Alexius until he'd taken over the castle.

At which point the correct response would be (if this is what happened, which I don't think it was) to aid the Fereldan army in retaking the castle rather than selling yourself to the mage-boogieman/devil.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

At which point the correct response would be (if this is what happened, which I don't think it was) to aid the Fereldan army in retaking the castle rather than selling yourself to the mage-boogieman/devil.

The easiest way to do that would probably be to pretend to sell yourself to the devil so that he can throw back the Templars if they get there first, and when Ferelden's army gets there to send somebody (probably Connor) to explain that Fiona is loyal to Ferelden's alliance agreement and now inside Redcliffe's walls. Of course, even if the situation is as Xilizhra describes it I don't think we have any evidence that Fiona was trying to be even that clever.

[Xilizhra]

At which point the correct response would be (if this is what happened, which I don't think it was) to aid the Fereldan army in retaking the castle rather than selling yourself to the mage-boogieman/devil.

Then the Venatori kill the rebels, who are much closer than the Fereldan army.

 

 

Maker's balls, she friggin' did it again!  This time over my judgement of Alexius.  Shut your damned mouth, Grand Enchanter...  This is what I get for allying with her again.

I'll give you the Warden thing as being annoying, but I'd say she has good reason to be wary of Alexius.

[Xilizhra]

Oh, it's not her being wary, it's the audacity of her saying "I hope you know what you're doing" to my Inky after what she pulled.

Well, obviously, because she doesn't want you to make the same mistake she did. Her heart is in the right place.

[fchopin]

I wish we could have told Fiona that we would take the mages as free agents but that she would not be welcome as she is a disgrace to the mages.

[Loghain Mac-Tir]

I wish we could have told Fiona that we would take the mages as free agents but that she would not be welcome as she is a disgrace to the mages.

 

Oh! If only, "We would be honored to have you fight as allies at the Inquisition's side, not you though, you stupid lady, you get the gallows".

 

All Companions Greatly Approve.

[Xilizhra]

Oh! If only, "We would be honored to have you fight as allies at the Inquisition's side, not you though, you stupid lady, you get the gallows".

 

All Companions Greatly Approve.

She'd be fine with it.

[Loghain Mac-Tir]

She'd be fine with it.

 

Not gonna argue how you know that. But anyways, that would've been a win-win situation then. 

[Xilizhra]

Not gonna argue how you know that. But anyways, that would've been a win-win situation then. 

Not for me. I don't like killing people who aren't trying to kill me.