232 réponses à ce sujet

[ManleySteele]

BTW Bioware, where is my dislike button. lol.

[Aaleel]

I thought it was more Joan of Arc, but that's just me I guess.

[Helmetto]

No, we were practically the same thing as Andraste/Elven Gods.

 

The game asks us the question what is a god/prophet?

 

Someone who has a special power and unites the people and/or saves them?The Inquisitor might see themselves as a normal person but people are already mindlessly following them as if they were a holy figure sent by Andraste, even if they say they are not.The Inquisitor was exactly what people needed in the right time and in the right place. A person to look up to and admire, almost to the point of worship, a person who saved the world and secured peace for all people of Thedas.What is a religion figure if not exactly that? People see a person who defeated evil, united the people and has a special power they do not understand. Almost all gods in all religions are portrayed in the same way.

 

1000 years from now, historical documents might say that Inquisitor was the next Andraste.A holy person sent by the maker to wiggle their fingers and save the world from the green evil thinge.Even if Inky was just fortunate enough to get the mark and wants nothing to do with the maker.

 

It is a very interesting idea and examination of religion.I have NOTHING against it.

 

Except we didn't secure peace for all people of Thedas. We, the Inquisitor, never actually fixed anything except the hole in the sky.

 

What we did do is gather some people, close the breach, defeated Cory, but that's not anything different than what the Warden did a decade prior. 

 

In fact, if you compare the Inquisitor and the Warden, you start to understand that what we are is the Warden on a grander scale, and yet, we are just a shadow in comparison. When people ask, "Why would anybody want the Warden even if he's an ******* that goes around stabbing people in the babymaker?", they forget that the Warden united many different types of people under a single threat. The Warden secures peace and stability for Fereldan.

 

The Inquisitor themselves does not do that. The person who "fixes" the chantry and the circles/templar order is the next Divine. The person who brings stability to Orlais is their leader, not us. In the game of deligating tasks, the role we play is merely choosing who does all the "Big" stuff while we run around picking flowers. The only important thing we actually do of any significant note other than aid the establishment of the Inquisition? Seal the hole in the sky, defeat potential god - which Hawke did prior as well.

 

You can hardly credit us for ending the Mage-Templar war; we just ripped a side out from under Corypheus and left the other to fall over itself. I would argue that we just allowed for survivors from that whole mess. 

 

In fact, the whole ending of DAI kind of feels like it went something like this:

 

"So the hole in the sky's closed. Uh. Now what?"

 

"I dunno what we were fighting for really."

 

"...Want to go back to the way things were before?"

 

"Oh god yes please,"

 

Give or take progress.

 

1000 years from now, the Inquisitor will most likely be erased from History altogether, and their deeds would just be attributed to the Inquisiton. That's how it seems to me.

[TheJiveDJ]

DAI is nothing but an exaggertion of the DA2 criticisms.

People hated thd closed in urban DA2 world.....so they make many large unique worlds full of mmo style quest.

People hated the smaller more personable story of Hawke and said it wasnt epic enough....so they make you a borderline religious prophet in DAI who saves the world from doom!!!

People hated how everyone was bi sexual in DAI......so they now make romances sex gated and race gated.

Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.

Most of these "responses" aren't bad, they just went overboard. There doesn't seems to be a middle ground anymore. Sex/race gating of romances never really bothered me because it makes the NPC's feel more real, and not like some sex toy that will respond to my every whim. The larger zones are nice in theory, but in practice they went way too far and had to fill the zones with meaningless fetch quests. I actually didn't have an issue with DA2's story, just how parts of it were executed. I actually enjoyed DA2's story more-so than DAI's. Likewise, I don't have an issue with DAI's "save the world from the big bad" trope, but it was executed poorly. Tropes exist because they usually work if done well.

[N7 Spectre525]

seems like Bioware doesn't know the meaning of the word BALANCE

its always one way or the other for them always two extremes

When it comes to addressing gameplay issues in their titles Bioware has all the subtlety of a surgeon with a butcher knife.

[InfinitePaths]

Except we didn't secure peace for all people of Thedas. We, the Inquisitor, never actually fixed anything except the hole in the sky.

 

What we did do is gather some people, close the breach, defeated Cory, but that's not anything different than what the Warden did a decade prior. 

 

In fact, if you compare the Inquisitor and the Warden, you start to understand that what we are is the Warden on a grander scale, and yet, we are just a shadow in comparison. When people ask, "Why would anybody want the Warden even if he's an ******* that goes around stabbing people in the babymaker?", they forget that the Warden united many different types of people under a single threat. The Warden secures peace and stability for Fereldan.

 

The Inquisitor themselves does not do that. The person who "fixes" the chantry and the circles/templar order is the next Divine. The person who brings stability to Orlais is their leader, not us. In the game of deligating tasks, the role we play is merely choosing who does all the "Big" stuff while we run around picking flowers. The only important thing we actually do of any significant note other than aid the establishment of the Inquisition? Seal the hole in the sky, defeat potential god - which Hawke did prior as well.

 

You can hardly credit us for ending the Mage-Templar war; we just ripped a side out from under Corypheus and left the other to fall over itself. I would argue that we just allowed for survivors from that whole mess. 

 

In fact, the whole ending of DAI kind of feels like it went something like this:

 

"So the hole in the sky's closed. Uh. Now what?"

 

"I dunno what we were fighting for really."

 

"...Want to go back to the way things were before?"

 

"Oh god yes please,"

 

Give or take progress.

 

1000 years from now, the Inquisitor will most likely be erased from History altogether, and their deeds would just be attributed to the Inquisiton. That's how it seems to me.

 

Your post contradicts itself multiple times.You jumped to multiple points so I will handle them seperately in order to avoid further confusion.

 

1.)The Warden did more work  than the Inquisitor

How is getting the military support of Orlais, Ferelden, Mages/Templars, Qunari, Dalish Clans and endless amounts of different people on the scale of two nations to defeat an army of demons pouring out of the sky led by an ancient tevinter magister-god all while the entire world thinks you're a "Herald of Andraste"(Jesus) any less of a feat than gathering a local dalish clan/warewolves, dwarves/golems, one circle mages/templars/ and a small-ish village's army to defeat an Archdemon?

 

I am well aware that gathering an army to defeat an archdemon is a great feat and the warden certainly deserves all praise they can get for doing that, but you can't say that what the Inquisitor does is merely a shadow of that since clearly the Inquisitor had much more influence and power than the warden.The Inquisitor was percieved as a holy individual sent by Andraste(Jesus) herself to unite 2 great nations (instead of only one war torn nation) to defeat a person who would have destroyed the world in one year (ala in Hushed Whispers quest) and flooded what's left of it with demons all while rulling as a god.I understand that sh*t would go down if the Archdemon wasn't stopped(Just for Ferelden though, there are still wardens out there), but if Cory wasn't stopped all hell would break loose upon all the world instantly and the Inquisitor gathered 10x more people than the Warden and they all practically worship the Inquisitor as a saviour sent by Andraste.

 

So yeah, Inquisitor brings together much more people against a much greater threat all while gaining much more influence to the point of fanatical worship.

 

2.)The Warden secures peace and stability to Ferelden while the Inquisitor doesn't do that

 

Not necessarily.There are multiple variations in regards who ends up on the Ferelden throne.And Fereldan is in a pretty bad state no matter what. at least at the end of Origins.The awesome thing the warden does no matter what is that they vanquished the threat that threatened Ferelden, wheras the Inquisitor vanquished the threat that threatened the entire world.Also, the Inquisitor takes responsibility to restore all these factions back in order.At the beginning of Inquisition both Orlais and in Chantry are in complete chaos, and without the Inquisitor's intervention they would both fall to Corypheus.So yes, while the Inquisitor doesn't become emperor/divine him/herself, he/she makes sure that everything doesn't go to sh*t and unites everyone under a common cause to defeat the big bad.

 

Without the Inquisitor, no Divine or Emperor would be able to save anything.

 

So yeah, Inquisitor does pretty much the exact same thing as the warden, but on a greater scale.

 

Step 1.)Unite People

Step 2.)Defeat Big Bad

Step 3.)Choose ruler

 

3.)The only thing Inquisition did was closing the breach

 

First of all, they also defeated a "god".But more importantly, you act like closing the breach is no big deal.If it hadn't been done (ala in Hushed Whispers) the entire world would fall.So I'd say it's a great achievment in it of itself and it took great effort to do so.The stakes were high and it is a great feat.I don't see your argument ehre.

 

4.)"I dunno what we were fighting for really"

Well good for you, you didn't RP your protagonist.The game lets you choose whether you want to fight for Andraste, to save the world, your personal power etc...

 

Nevertheless, everyone around you believes you are sent by Andraste to save them all.

 

5.)"1000 years from now, the Inquisitor will most likely be erased from History altogether, and their deeds would just be attributed to the Inquisiton. That's how it seems to me."

 

Not at all, as all evidence in DA:I indicates, people all around the world are all talking about the prophet of Andraste who vanquished the ultimate evil.Almost every single person in Thedas talks about the Inquisitor as if he was Andraste 2.0.He/She was sent by the Maker to save us all!

[DanteYoda]

I agree far to much obsession with religion and politics, neither of which is fun.

[Calignos]

Personally I'd prefer a story that isn't centred around religion, I'd prefer religion to be a small biproduct of the game, similar to how it was in Origins, if that. That was the only thing that put me off the game a bit, barring bugs and minor things such as the clunky mount control and what not. None the less it was a great game. I played Origins dozens of times, including on Nightmare a few times. It was the best single player game RPG I've ever played, taking into consideration it's generation.

 

I guess I'm just a strong critic of the sequels after such a great first game.

 

As I said, I did enjoy the game a lot but the religious side of it put me off a bit.

[Riven326]

I like being a leader with forces at my command. The religious stuff plays a part in that; if you're seen as divine, it only means you have more power and influence.

[Calignos]

I see the appeal for some people, but it doesn't personally appeal to me. Again, everyone has their own opinion though so if you like the religious stuff then good to hear it.

[Ieldra]

I agree far to much obsession with religion and politics, neither of which is fun.

I like dealing with these things. What I don't like is being forcibly tied to a specific faith or political ideology. And I am that in DAI. I can deny that I'm anyone's Herald until I'm blue in the face, I still end up supporting Andrastianism.

 

It's the one thing that almost made me not buy DAI, and while I'm glad I did because things aren't as bad as I feared, it's still a major point of criticism.

[Riven326]

I like dealing with these things. What I don't like is being forcibly tied to a specific faith or political ideology. And I am that in DAI. I can deny that I'm anyone's Herald until I'm blue in the face, I still end up supporting Andrastianism.

 

It's the one thing that almost made me not buy DAI, and while I'm glad I did because things aren't as bad as I feared, it's still a major point of criticism.

It's forced? I thought you had a choice about that.

[Quaddis]

It's forced? I thought you had a choice about that.

 

Yeah, you do, but you know, because you cant say people that believe you are prophet, that you are atheist, and then educate stupid plebs on advanced and prosp...whatever.

[rapscallioness]

But even DAO felt like a more personal story for at least half the game. You had the origin story, then you set on your path. Thing is, you are a nobody framed and hunted by the powers that be. You are cut off from any back up forces, and all you have are these dusty treaties. It gave the feeling that you were very much scraping by, even your camp site gave that feeling. There were no castles and whatnot for the Warden. Along with a rag tag bunch of slightly odd and unlikely heroes as companions.

 

Then it slowly shifts, and you can feel yourself being pulled out into the wider world with their expectations and demands. You can feel it when Riordan finally shows up. Or with being relocated to Eamon's estate--which immediately took away that cozy, insular feeling of the camp site location. And if you romanced Alistair, for example, with anyone but a human noble, that, too, came colliding against certain realities and responsibilities.

 

DA2 was definitely a personal story, along with the slightly odd and unlikely heroes as companions. But you were stuck in one small city.

 

DAI the main character seemed to be southern Thedas. Its religion, its politics and its environments. Felt more to me like the Inquisitor was a supporting character in the story. The main character being Thedas. I'd rather have the story be more personal. More about the PC and their companions with Thedas as the backdrop.

 

Of course, that's what they've always said, that DA is about Thedas. But the first 2 games felt like they were about a particular character and their trials within Thedas. DAI fulfilled that promise about DA being about Thedas. And that shift in focus took away the personal feeling and connection I had.

[VahnXIII]

To OP:

 

According to you, the Inquisitor is Jesus 2.0. In Baldur's Gate, you are the Lord of Murder. I think Bioware has covered the spectrum!

[Hazegurl]

It's forced? I thought you had a choice about that.

Not much of one.  The religious talk typically goes like this:

 

NPC: "The Maker sent you to us."

 

PC: "People should start looking out for themselves/There is no Maker."

 

NPC: "The Maker sent you to us." *Shakes head and walks away*

[Spankatola]

How does that support Andrastianism?

[Suledin]

We should all remember that BioWare can't please everyone.

Indeed.

[Hazegurl]

How does that support Andrastianism?

Well at the end you have to lend your support to a new Divine.  It's like asking an atheist to select a pope. So no matter what, you have to support the continuation of the Andrastian faith. It would have been awesome if the IQ could take the Divine role themselves, in my case my IQ would have been a black Divine. Or simply choose to eliminate any chances of a Divine sitting on the Sunburst throne and just leave it empty. But nope, you are simply told how important it is to continue the faith and you pick your girl based on what changes they bring thru the religion.

[keesio74]

I didn't mind being perceived as some messiah character but it seemed like I was that from the start. Yes there were doubters and my organization was small... but I was still some leader of an organization that still has relevance and I have a special power.

 

I liked DA:O better where you start out as small potatoes... especially if you are a city elf. Getting to the top after starting out so small was very rewarding. Yeah Hawke was a refugee but he ended up being some bigwig in a city. Your warden became the Hero of Ferelden.

[Vader20]

Well... I mostly agree with the OP,but I don't think that us being the "messiah" is the main problem... Saving the world... again... is not the problem. It's always the execution's fault. You can make a game interesting in many ways even if the final goal is saving the world *sigh* again...

 

The problem with DAI is that it basically gives you no sense of accomplishment... You don't have to work your way up the ranks and get acknowledgement from other characters for what you've done. So as I said before the problem here is that this saving world thing is done in  a shallow way.. or let's say rushed because shallow a kinda harsh.

 

You survive the blast, you end up being the prisoner which so far is good. But what happens after that ? Well, Cassandra TAKES you to the Rift, BUT actually you are the one taking her to the rift because she follows you and not the other way around. WHAAT ? I was a criminal, and a prisoner.. and I'm leading my captor to the rift ? Also, they are asking me,a prisoner, what should they do to attack the temple ?

 

Then there is this Inquisitor thing.. I get to become the leader of a major political organization just like that. Because even though you get the title at Skyhold, you are the one telling others what to do from the start which is very wrong because I should be the one working for them. This always gives me a feeling of blandness and I'm not surprised that people get bored.

 

Probably many gamers are like me and don't like everyone bowing to their knees... I'm the "Heral'd" but please stop kissing my backside.

I forgot to mention the severe lack of rivalry in this game.. No one questions you except Roderick which is a really weak attempt and again because of this it can become boring.

 

I really miss Bioware's "You are Revan" moments from their games. It's like the writing was MUUCH better back then. Don't know what happened because I'm sure that they don't lack in talent.

[Lebanese Dude]

Well at the end you have to lend your support to a new Divine. It's like asking an atheist to select a pope. So no matter what, you have to support the continuation of the Andrastian faith. It would have been awesome if the IQ could take the Divine role themselves, in my case my IQ would have been a black Divine. Or simply choose to eliminate any chances of a Divine sitting on the Sunburst throne and just leave it empty. But nope, you are simply told how important it is to continue the faith and you pick your girl based on what changes they bring thru the religion.

The IQ has the option to insist that all candidates not take the Sunburst throne. You never have to support the Chantry ever.

I think it's glaringly obvious that religion is pretty important in Thedas. Your Inquisition isn't an atheist organization as its entire endgame structure is based on your influence as a supposed Herald of Andraste. It's not going to change in the near future. 

I'm not sure why you're so vehemently attempting to cast it aside. It seems you are projecting your real-life distaste of religion in general unto the fictional one in the game. A lot of it is going on in this thread in fact.

Why wouldn't an atheist support a pope whose goals align with theirs? 

[Phoe77]

If I remember correctly, you don't have to support anyone at all for Divine.  They still end up getting chosen based on what actions you picked during the game, but that isn't really the same thing.  

 

I wouldn't expect people to just stop believing you're an instrument of divine will just because you say you aren't.  If it were that simple to change someone's beliefs, faith wouldn't be nearly as powerful a force as it is.  I actually think that the way that people react to your protestations is fairly realistic.  

[Riven326]

The IQ has the option to insist that all candidates not take the Sunburst throne. You never have to support the Chantry ever.

I think it's glaringly obvious that religion is pretty important in Thedas. Your Inquisition isn't an atheist organization as its entire endgame structure is based on your influence as a supposed Herald of Andraste. It's not going to change in the near future. 

I'm not sure why you're so vehemently attempting to cast it aside. It seems you are projecting your real-life distaste of religion in general unto the fictional one in the game. A lot of it is going on in this thread in fact.

Why wouldn't an atheist support a pope whose goals align with theirs? 

I was hoping we would have the opportunity to, at the very least, greatly diminish the Chantry's role in Thedas.