232 réponses à ce sujet

[MissDragon]

What would we do if not saving the world? Saving Nugs?  

[Raoni Luna]

 It seems you are projecting your real-life distaste of religion in general unto the fictional one in the game.

"Projection your real life..." - Do you realize it is not a problem? Do you realize that for most people this is exactly what it means to play RPG? So unless you're telling me that games should not be made for these people, yes we have a problem in the game.

 

The problem is exactly the Inquisition, worst decision EVER for a RPG game that claims freedom and choice. Be the LEADER of such organization by definition means being restricted and limited as the game quickly shows. A lot of dos and donts, the need to deal with certain groups and so on. Dealing with such a huge force is deffinetly not the way to let the player choose his way.

 

I'd rather be free than being a fable in Thedas for centuries to come. I will go back to the game... the more I think about how bad Inquisition is the more depressed I get... and I don't want to quit the game soon so I will just forget how bad it is... Cole help me!... good bye o/

[Lebanese Dude]

"Projection your real life..." - Do you realize it is not a problem? Do you realize that for most people this is exactly what it means to play RPG? So unless you're telling me that games should not be made for these people, yes we have a problem in the game.

The problem is exactly the Inquisition, worst decision EVER for a RPG game that claims freedom and choice. Be the LEADER of such organization by definition means being restricted and limited as the game quickly shows. A lot of dos and donts, the need to deal with certain groups and so on. Dealing with such a huge force is deffinetly not the way to let the player choose his way.

I'd rather be free than being a fable in Thedas for centuries to come. I will go back to the game... the more I think about how bad Inquisition is the more depressed I get... and I don't want to quit the game soon so I will just forget how bad it is... Cole help me!... good bye o/

Fairly certain roleplaying involves playing a role other than oneself, which implies that one has to abstain from projecting their beliefs unto their character.

So you're sorta contradicting yourself. If you want to self-insert then that's a different story but you shouldn't blame the game for not accounting for your beliefs that may or may not be reflected in the game world.

Atheism is a foreign concept to most people of Southern Thedas. Your character can play as one, but don't expect many others to follow suit.

[Lebanese Dude]

I was hoping we would have the opportunity to, at the very least, greatly diminish the Chantry's role in Thedas.

It would have been a nice option for certain. I can see how that can be an attractive choice for some.

Perhaps it was deemed a little too much change for the setting. As different as the Divines are in their actions there still is a Chantry to speak of.

It also wouldnt be that sensible given that you're the Herald of Andraste to 99% of Southern Thedas, and if anything their belief has never been stronger after the Breach is sealed.

[DanteYoda]

Not much of one.  The religious talk typically goes like this:

 

NPC: "The Maker sent you to us."

 

PC: "People should start looking out for themselves/There is no Maker."

 

NPC: "The Maker sent you to us." *Shakes head and walks away*

You forgot the Disapproval from two or three Companions

 

But yes you are spot on.

[Lebanese Dude]

They have faith. Is it so hard to believe?

They can think a Qunari Mage is the Herald if Andraste. A few heretical words from you means nothing after you just closed the rift or resolved a mess as if the Maker himself sent you

[DanteYoda]

They have faith. Is it so hard to believe?

For some people yes it is.

 

I just wish we had an option to end the Chantry once and for all.. and the Templars..

[Lebanese Dude]

For some people yes it is.
 
I just wish we had an option to end the Chantry once and for all.. and the Templars..

It's a fantasy setting... Their gods and pantheons exist (or not?). Either way they aren't as advanced as we are. Rationalism isn't exactly prevalent.

[Lewie]

I kid you not unless you can see outside yourself you can never play an rpg like dragon age to its full potential.

 

You have to be able to see all sides of the coin, accept them, all three.

[Al Foley]

I kid you not unless you can see outside yourself you can never play an rpg like dragon age to its full potential.

 

You have to be able to see all sides of the coin, accept them, all three.

How Vorlon of you.  

[Riven326]

It would have been a nice option for certain. I can see how that can be an attractive choice for some.

Perhaps it was deemed a little too much change for the setting. As different as the Divines are in their actions there still is a Chantry to speak of.

It also wouldnt be that sensible given that you're the Herald of Andraste to 99% of Southern Thedas, and if anything their belief has never been stronger after the Breach is sealed.

Well, that's kind of my point. They already believe that you are the Herald. You can pretty much do what you like as long as they continue to believe you are divine.

[Hazegurl]

The IQ has the option to insist that all candidates not take the Sunburst throne. You never have to support the Chantry ever.

I think it's glaringly obvious that religion is pretty important in Thedas. Your Inquisition isn't an atheist organization as its entire endgame structure is based on your influence as a supposed Herald of Andraste. It's not going to change in the near future. 

I'm not sure why you're so vehemently attempting to cast it aside. It seems you are projecting your real-life distaste of religion in general unto the fictional one in the game. A lot of it is going on in this thread in fact.

Why wouldn't an atheist support a pope whose goals align with theirs? 

 

If you read an earlier post I made I said I don't have an issue with the religion in this game but I do take issue with the execution. And the fact remains is that at the end of the day you are supporting the Andrastian faith even if you don't want to. The Divine is tied to your choices no matter what. Even if you say you don't believe, then the answer is "The Chantry should be open to everyone" which can lead more to Leliana as the chosen one. If Hardened she is plotting Exalted Marches, if softened she spreads the Chant of Light peacefully... Either way it's not what I want.

 

I would argue that Vivienne is the least Andrastian choice but you may have to work hard to get her depending, which means active support of her.

 

Sure you don't have to actively pick anyone, but no matter what you're still picking one because the religion is tied heavily to your PC, so you influence them from that aspect.....but what you can't do is influence them to not believe or even question the possibility.  Which is strange for a game that claims you are the most influential person in the world. Now I'm not expecting to turn everyone into nonbelievers, that is ridiculous. But the interactions stem mostly on convincing the non believing PC that religion has it's place instead of their being a middle ground.

 

Yes, I get that the Inquisition isn't an atheist organization, I never said it should be one, and I get that the ignorant masses will worship the IQ as the Herald regardless of what I say and quite honestly, I RP as saying I am in public, so I expect them to believe anyway. But if you want to contest the claims, then the rpg is limited because the religious dialogue is sorely lacking for a nonbeliever PC.

 

"I don't believe in the Maker"

"I don't believe in Gods."

"People should start believing in this world."

"The Chantry spread hate."

"I'm not the Herald!"

"we believe in our own Gods" (Elf)

 

Pretty much this sums up your entire dialogue on the subject.  It's just the PC making bold statements with nothing to back up such a claim and no way to delve much deeper than that, your dialogue is only a set up for the npc to contest it and nothing more.  After a while the IQ just sounds like a raving loon talking to a brick wall.

 

As for your question. I wouldn't support a Pope at all, even if our goals are aligned. As Dorian states. "The Chantry is a relic clinging to relevance."  Then why can't I have the option to just let it die already or fade into irrelevance?  Why can't the Inquisition do what the Divine does as far as Mages and Templars are concerned? Why can't I leave the Sunburst throne empty? Which would coincide with my IQ's belief that fanatical beliefs are the problem and people should learn to solve the problems of this world without it. Which means no religious figure to tell them how things should change. Let them figure it out on their own.

[X Equestris]

Even if you let the Chantry die, someone amongst the faithful would build an organization that would end up filling its place.

[Lewie]

This is when debates on the forums go way off. This is a fictional world, with different rules. If you can't separate your life from fiction/fantasy then I have no clue.

 

People get mad all the time. 

[Realmzmaster]

I have to agree with the OP. I do not want to be Jesus 2.0 in the next game. I want to aim higher. I am all  for The Maker 1.0!

[Elhanan]

Agreed with the topic; prefer the original version, as mine does not require upgrades....
 

[Seraphim24]

We should all remember that BioWare can't please everyone.

 

I don't really see why not....

[Zehealingman]

I am pretty sure that Jesus had his own chest to store loot.

[Phoe77]

I don't see how the selection of a new Divine being tied to the actions of the Inquisitor amounts to support of Andrastianism or the Chantry.  The fact is that the actions of the Inquisitor are changing the social environment of Thedas and, if the Chantry is going to continue to be relevant, it has to adapt to those changes.  An individual who does the same things without ever having heard of the Chantry would still influence the choice of a new Divine.  

[Massa FX]

I don't mind being all-powerful in RPG games, and at the same time, I don't mind building up to that exalted state from a very humble beginning. An anti-hero style game might be appealing. 

 

I sure love it when Shepard is nasty/cutting/bullying. (not all the time, but it can be entertaining.)

[In Exile]

Well at the end you have to lend your support to a new Divine. It's like asking an atheist to select a pope. So no matter what, you have to support the continuation of the Andrastian faith. It would have been awesome if the IQ could take the Divine role themselves, in my case my IQ would have been a black Divine. Or simply choose to eliminate any chances of a Divine sitting on the Sunburst throne and just leave it empty. But nope, you are simply told how important it is to continue the faith and you pick your girl based on what changes they bring thru the religion.

I am atheist and would have no problem with this. You're selecting a huge reformer either way. Leliana abandons every pretense of the Chantry. That she's still religious is beside the point unless you're actively antireligious or antichantry.

[Hazegurl]

Viv is my canon choice as I enjoy the idea of mages achieving power by using the Chantry. Although I do love it when Leliana admits that the people are sheep. I'm perfectly fine with riding the Chantry wave to ultimate power. Too bad you can't be anything but a golden boy so I know that's mostly head canon on my part.

[Ieldra]

It's forced? I thought you had a choice about that.

I can express my beliefs. It has zero effect on anything. The power of my organization rests at least in part on faith, and thus it strengthens the faith with every success. I'm not saying this isn't completely plausible, and at least we can influence future Chantry policy somewhat (at least in theory, likely this will all be 90% streamlined in the next game) but it's still galling if you'd rather weaken people's dependence on these things. I like this story in spite of that, but I'd rather not have another one of this kind.

 

@In Exile:

I have a problem with the ideological core of Andrastianism as expressed in the tale of the Golden City. So it's neither a Chantry problem nor a problem of being generally anti-religion (I am that in RL, but it wouldn't have that much of an effect on my DA rp preferences without the specifics of this faith. I can happily play an elf who believes in the elven pantheon). 

[Uccio]

Was I the only one having Life of Brian kind of effects through out the game? I kept telling people to stop calling me their jebus without any effect, drove me grazy.

[Shadow Fox]

And yet all of these things are not what makes a great Bioware game in my opinion.

Bioware games since KOTOR are 100% cinematic experiences....only about 20% of DAI was cinematic.

Bioware games focus on smaller yet detailed worlds or environments with a lot of stuff to do they are always unique like the Rogue V.I. on the Citadel in ME1....DAI had nothing of this but rather MMO style fetch quest.

Fixed that for you.