232 réponses à ce sujet

[mfr001]

It would be nice if the Inquisitor were to be Jesus (any version from 0.1a will do). All my Inquisitors seem to have the knack of finding deep water to get into. I can sympathise with the dwarven Inquisitor, but the qunari?!

[MattH]

Chances are the DA4 protagonist is going to lead slave revolt in Tevinter and to save the world by overthrowing some evil magisters. Or something like that.

A leader of a small band of freedom fighters who garner power from with in the walls of Tevinter to bring the empire to its knees?
I'd be on board with that.

[Legion of 1337]

They don't have to be Jesus I suppose, but it was interesting to play in that role.

[Chiramu]

We should all remember that BioWare can't please everyone.

 

No, they try to please everyone and so they end up pleasing no one. Because they try to please everyone the story becomes dull and boring, Inquisition doesn't even link its' story together!

[Korva]

No, they try to please everyone and so they end up pleasing no one. Because they try to please everyone the story becomes dull and boring, Inquisition doesn't even link its' story together!

 

That I agree with. They wasted too many resources on the optional content while ignoring the main story, and the main story started strong but fell flat in the end because Corypheus is ultimately such a non-entity despite his powerful first apperance in Haven. I heard that Bioware intended for faith and its various implications and manifestations to be a big theme in the game but ended up pulling back from it because they didn't want to "force" something like that on the players, and IMO that was a colossal mistake. If writers don't believe in their themes, it shows -- it makes the product noticeably weaker and shallower than if they'd had the conviction to really pick up that ball and play it. It could have made the game so much better.

[RinuCZ]

At least you haven't faced "Sacrifice yourself for humanity" choice again .

 

I didn't mind plot of DA:I but I hope DA4 will be more in line with DA2 in terms of main storyline. I liked how Hawke was above average due to her effort to actively change things for better but she could do only so little and it was about her personal journey in the end.

I understand this attitude didn't sit well with many fans of DA:O and classic RPGs and that is a reason why Bioware returned to the formula. DA:I excels at side stories and I like to think it is a left-over from DA2 which shown personal stories are where their storytelling strength lies however the main quest is kind of flavourless except for the ball.

[Biotic Flash Kick]

no we cannot

we have to be politically correct at all times

 

and nothing is more PC than jesus and religion 

[X Equestris]

lol stop joking man
DA I story is generic and cliche if there ever was one its certainly not a deconstruction
I don't mind saving the world stories but it has to be executed well and DAI failed in that regard

DAO's story was about the same, honestly.

[Nomen Mendax]

At least you haven't faced "Sacrifice yourself for humanity" choice again .

 

I didn't mind plot of DA:I but I hope DA4 will be more in line with DA2 in terms of main storyline. I liked how Hawke was above average due to her effort to actively change things for better but she could do only so little and it was about her personal journey in the end.

I understand this attitude didn't sit well with many fans of DA:O and classic RPGs and that is a reason why Bioware returned to the formula. DA:I excels at side stories and I like to think it is a left-over from DA2 which shown personal stories are where their storytelling strength lies however the main quest is kind of flavourless except for the ball.

I'm glad you enjoyed DA2, I was disappointed by it for reasons that are too long and boring to go into (although I don't think it was nearly as bad as people like to make out). I really liked DAO, but it wasn't because my character was saving the world. In fact I'd love to play an RPG where my character was doing something relatively unimportant.

 

However, one of the problems I had with DA2 was that I never really got to supply my own motivation. Or, to put it another way one of the convenient things about the classic saving the world stories is that it's a very easy excuse to railroad the PC. After Act 1 of DA2 I found Hawke's mother irritating, Kirkwall an incredibly violent, ninja-infested, crime-ridden city full of psychotic templars who wanted to lock up Hawke's sister so I didn't really see any reason why Hawke wouldn't just leave. Having this little voice in the back of my head saying "I'm rich let's go somewhere sane" kind of soured me on most of it.

 

Shorter version - I want to play my character not navigate the protagonist through someone else's novel.

[RinuCZ]

I'm glad you enjoyed DA2, I was disappointed by it for reasons that are too long and boring to go into (although I don't think it was nearly as bad as people like to make out). I really liked DAO, but it wasn't because my character was saving the world. In fact I'd love to play an RPG where my character was doing something relatively unimportant.

 

However, one of the problems I had with DA2 was that I never really got to supply my own motivation. Or, to put it another way one of the convenient things about the classic saving the world stories is that it's a very easy excuse to railroad the PC. After Act 1 of DA2 I found Hawke's mother irritating, Kirkwall an incredibly violent, ninja-infested, crime-ridden city full of psychotic templars who wanted to lock up Hawke's sister so I didn't really see any reason why Hawke wouldn't just leave. Having this little voice in the back of my head saying "I'm rich let's go somewhere sane" kind of soured me on most of it.

 

Shorter version - I want to play my character not navigate the protagonist through someone else's novel.

It seems to me that it is the core of critics for anything past DA:O. I don't feel a need to role-play a crazy psycho nor do I wish to roleplay a precise model of my moral codex in games, so I am pretty okay with what Bioware does as long as they try to keep the protagonist more or less consistent. Hopefully, Bioware or any other developer will eventually make a game you find satisfying.

 

As for Kirkwall, my impression was that Ferelden was infested with extremists covered by Chantry and moving to a different part of wolrd - without support of friends and certain authorities and without status - wouldn't change a thing. They could just meet other zealot Templars doing their crusade against anyone who doesn't do dog tricks at a circle.

Would you rather want a decision to cut a game early and give you an epilogue they tried their luck in Par Vollen which sounded even worse for mages and non-Qun believers? Or should have Hawke decided to go to Tevinter where she would lack a status, "seal" of Tevinter's ancestors and was an alien from a hostile country?

 

Her decision seems to be quite reasonable.

[DanteYoda]

I personally want Sera to be the Devine...

[frankf43]

I personally want Sera to be the Devine...

Sera is divine. 

[frankf43]

We aren't Jesus. If you believe the bible Jesus is God made man or the son of God not Gods prophet. We're more John the Baptist or St Peter than Jesus. 

 

Even still you can opt out of the whole Herald of Andraste by saying that you're not the Herald and  that Andraste had nothing to do with your mark. 

 

I didn't play a holy character in my first game. I played a Dwarven rogue who ran with the whole HoA business to make something of herself. You have the option to do that as well. You don't have to believe the story you are spinning to the rest of the world as long as they keep giving you power, money and a big throne to sit on.

[Nomen Mendax]

It seems to me that it is the core of critics for anything past DA:O. I don't feel a need to role-play a crazy psycho nor do I wish to roleplay a precise model of my moral codex in games, so I am pretty okay with what Bioware does as long as they try to keep the protagonist more or less consistent. Hopefully, Bioware or any other developer will eventually make a game you find satisfying.

 

As for Kirkwall, my impression was that Ferelden was infested with extremists covered by Chantry and moving to a different part of wolrd - without support of friends and certain authorities and without status - wouldn't change a thing. They could just meet other zealot Templars doing their crusade against anyone who doesn't do dog tricks at a circle.

Would you rather want a decision to cut a game early and give you an epilogue they tried their luck in Par Vollen which sounded even worse for mages and non-Qun believers? Or should have Hawke decided to go to Tevinter where she would lack a status, "seal" of Tevinter's ancestors and was an alien from a hostile country?

 

Her decision seems to be quite reasonable.

Objectively I agree with you (about PC motivation) although what you say could reasonably have been spelt out more. To be honest the biggest issues for me with DA2 was the paraphrasing, the (infamous) auto-dialogue and the lack of some obvious choices which made it impossible for me to feel that Hawke was my character not Bioware's The fact that my motivation for sticking it out in Kirkwall after Act 1 was never adequately explained just made it worse.

 

Like I said earlier I'd like to see a smaller, more personal story from Bioware but I think that style requires a lot more work to not alienate the player. I found a lot of the things they were trying to do with DA2 in terms of the story, and the way that conversations were implemented, interesting (even though I utterly despise the dialogue wheel as an interface object) but, for me at least, they didn't work out. Even though DA2 is one of my least liked Bioware games (I never had any inclination to play it more than once) I respect the team for trying out some new ideas; and of course its a shame that the development cycle was so short. 

[Lee T]

However, one of the problems I had with DA2 was that I never really got to supply my own motivation. Or, to put it another way one of the convenient things about the classic saving the world stories is that it's a very easy excuse to railroad the PC. After Act 1 of DA2 I found Hawke's mother irritating, Kirkwall an incredibly violent, ninja-infested, crime-ridden city full of psychotic templars who wanted to lock up Hawke's sister so I didn't really see any reason why Hawke wouldn't just leave. Having this little voice in the back of my head saying "I'm rich let's go somewhere sane" kind of soured me on most of it.

I remember thinking the exact same thing when Meredith and Orsino started bickering like children at the beginning of act 2.
 
It does feel weird running the inquisition when you'r a professed stone believer dwarf. Somehow it's more about the Inquisition and Giselle running you.

If the aim of the writers was to make you feel the empty figurehead of a cobbled together by panicking people institution, then kudos, they did it.

[PhroXenGold]

Like I said earlier I'd like to see a smaller, more personal story from Bioware but I think that style requires a lot more work to not alienate the player. I found a lot of the things they were trying to do with DA2 in terms of the story, and the way that conversations were implemented, interesting (even though I utterly despise the dialogue wheel as an interface object) but, for me at least, they didn't work out. Even though DA2 is one of my least liked Bioware games (I never had any inclination to play it more than once) I respect the team for trying out some new ideas; and of course its a shame that the development cycle was so short. 

 

Something along the lines of BG2's story (SoA at least) would be interesting. In that, while you are unquestionable special, being the child of a god and all, you're not messianic, you're not a leader, you're not the last hope. And while the plot certianly does revolve around you being special, it's desn't involve world shattering events and you being the last chance to stop them. Hell, it's not until the finale of chapter 5 (out of 7) that Irenicus really is revealed to be a threat to anyone beyond you and your immediate companions, and even after that, there are extremely good reasons to try to stop him even if you don't care one whit about a city full of elves. The story is presented much more as a personal conflict between the PC and Jonny - helped in no small part by the latter being an utterly fanatsic antagonist. Right from the word go, he made you want him dead for personal reasons. ("Ah, the Child of Bhaal has awoken. It is time for more.....experiments") And then over the course of the game, he made things worse for you. He beat you, he made you helpless, he won, and the only reason you were left in a position to stop you is that he no longer cared about you. And that made him someone the player could truly hate. Recent BW games have lacked this kind of big bad. Cory got close - In Your Heart Shall Burn made him seem like he was going to be an interesting bad guy, but he basically did nothing after that to make me hate him more.

 

Bringing back a story like BG2, which is fundamentally a personal conflict between the player and the big bad would be a very very good thing IMO. It's a sort of halfway house between the DA:O/I style of being the chosen one and last hope for the world, and DA2's style of being an ordinary man in extraordinary circumstances just trying to do his best.

[Korva]

@PhroXenGold: I kind of agree with you on principle, though I never cared a whit for Irenicus because what I really wanted from the series was a much more vicious internal conflict between my character and daddy Bhaal's increasingly stronger influence and voice. For that reason, I enjoyed Sun Li more as a villain -- he had some of that personal "I really hate your guts now" angle due to his deception, betrayal and murder of my character while not "stealing" the villain spot from anyone else.

 

It's too bad that most of Bioware villains falls so flat, really. Corypheus had huge potential, I was really stoked during In Your Heart Shall Burn, but then ... ugh. He deflated like a particularly pathetic whoopie cushion and became a complete non-entity. KotOR's Malak had potential too due to the old history between him and the protagonist, but like all of Revan's past, that was never explored and instead he became a stereotypical mwah-hah-hah-style badguy.

[Elfyoth]

I want a powerful story when the protogansit is nobody, and you can do whatever you want, open a farm kill this son of ****** near you, join a mercnary company like Skyrim but in Skyrim you are sombody who is treated like nobody. I want to be able to play as a Hawke who never becomes a champion, think how DA2 was great if they have done it in Frostbite 3 and more patience, I want massive cities as well as nature. 

[k1rage]

Well we could be Muhammad 2.0 but that might upset some people.....

[PhroXenGold]

It's too bad that most of Bioware villains falls so flat, really. Corypheus had huge potential, I was really stoked during In Your Heart Shall Burn, but then ... ugh. He deflated like a particularly pathetic whoopie cushion and became a complete non-entity.

 

Yeah, Cory was pretty crap as a bad guy. Thing is, he never really acheived anything. The majority of the main story quests had you beating him - Champions of the Just, Wicked Eyes, Here Lies the Abysss, What Pride Had Wrought, Doom Upon all the World - and even the parts where he did something - at the Conclave prior to the game starting and during In Your Heart Shall burn - he still ultimately failed (in the former, while he killed lots of people and created the breach, he lost the anchor, while in the latter, although he drove the Inquisition from Haven, he did so at the cost of much of his army, he failed to kill the Inquisition's leadership, including the Herald, and the Breach was closed). The finale was his last desperate gambit having lost everything else - it should be the other way around, the big bad is about to win and the hero has one last faint chance to stop them.

[Korva]

I don't think our victory always needs to be a last-ditch effort, but the climax in terms of tension and threat definitely shouldn't come after, what, only a fourth of the story? In Your Heart Shall Burn is fantastic and really had me excited what else the game had in store for me because if something this enjoyable comes along this early, how even more badass is the finale going to be?

 

... yeah. That didn't turn out as expected.

 

So I agree that Corypheus absolutely needed a big bang of a victory somewhere down the line. Or better yet, more than one. They tried to make him look badass by tearing the mountain apart, but that just ended up being cartoonishly over the top. I also still mourn the fact that there was no big siege of Skyhold where we have to maneuver defenders and protect the people. Maybe they didn't want to rehash the "Skyhold is messed up, have fun rebuilding it" theme, but eh. What good is a fancy fortress if its strength is never tested?

[TacoBellBurrito]

All the successful do.

Its extra ironic here though. We already had the character that isnt a messiah in the form of Hawke and it was beautiful because of that. However the typical hyperbolic internet being what it is whined and moaned about it so we got the Inquisitor which was also beautiful so now theyll do a normal every day protag for the next one and itll be "wehh im not important enough to sate my wish fulfillment" in the next one.

[99DP1982]

DAI is nothing but an exaggertion of the DA2 criticisms.

People hated thd closed in urban DA2 world.....so they make many large unique worlds full of mmo style quest.

People hated the smaller more personable story of Hawke and said it wasnt epic enough....so they make you a borderline religious prophet in DAI who saves the world from doom!!!

People hated how everyone was bi sexual in DAI......so they now make romances sex gated and race gated.

Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.

 

The last part is actually a good change.