41 réponses à ce sujet

[Greywinter]

I have been trying to play melee rogue on nightmare difficulty but it just takes too much micromanagement that fun goes out the window.

 

Because if I don't ultra-micromanage my melee rogue then he will keep getting one hit.

 

There must be a better way to implement it, this can't be it. Just doesn't make sense, its just way too much micromanagement.

 

I always thought that melee rogue's dodge should be at par with melee warrior (dps) armor in terms of damage avoidance but its not the case. Armor is much greater than Dodge.

 

Are they doing something about it or is this it?

 

Considering respec'ing to ranged, should I?

[RazielTheUnborn]

Why are you even using dodge? What specialization are you? If Assassin, you would be near permanently in stealth. Flank attack and Stealth. Best stuff in the game, and attacking enemies from the back, not the feont.

[Biotic Flash Kick]

wtf is your party?

 

if you are roguing you bring spirit/cyro/cc mage + dps with barrier mage / blackwall

 

DPS rogue is beast in nightmare

i've dont my fastest speed with a with a DW assassin

 

your first 3 levels / 2 if you are human give you everything you need for rogue

 

Flank attack and upgrade

 

then upgrade stealth for lost in shadows 

 

you will never get targetted

on top of switch you can drop to stealth

disengage / health // run away and revive teammates 

[Greywinter]

Yes I always flank my enemies but the my rogue still keep getting hit by aoe melee attacks, on elite monsters and enemies. They either one shot him or almost one shot him, stealth don't matter. Specially the ones with elemental attack there is no hope for me survive against them even if I am at enemies back, which I am almost always.

 

Its a ****** to permanently stay at the back of the moving enemy, just way too much micromanagement, sometimes I get pushed to sides, but I am never at the front ( I make sure of that) but still I keep getting one shotted even when I am at the side of the enemy or even at the back.

 

Its just totally messed up. I have no idea how to handle this.

 

EDIT: Atm my party config is Cass(full tank), myself (melee assassin rogue), Varric / Solas, Vivienne (Spirit)

[arkngt]

Micromanaging the DW Rogue is fun IMO. My playstyle is basically: micromanaging my DW Rogue Inquisitor, letting the AI (tweaked behaviors) handle the others (with some minor exceptions when I go in and micromanage them as well). This would be very difficult w/o using the tactical view, so that's the other side of the micromanaging coin: I'm using tactical view a lot. I think it's a lot of fun and don't have serious issues with the tactical view either.

 

Anyway, the DW Rogue is constantly on the move in stealth, using burst attacks against squishy targets, such as archers and mages, while the tank draws aggro from warriors/bosses and take care of them. I don't ever use evade or dodge. Basically, my DW Rogue has messed up if getting hit at all. If possible, try to combine the DW Bursts with mage spells so you get bonus from shatter etc. Later in the game, with Hidden Blades, she can dish out damage from a safe distance as well. Or be much more reckless with, say, a +5 guard on hit item.

[Exalus]

DW rogue is arguably the strongest and most fun PC build to run preskyhold NM. A dwarven tank is also a contender but nowhere near as enjoyable.

DW rogue Shatter combos is the most potent and consistent burst damage dealer in the game preksyhold and barrier gives you enough time to deal damage. If youre having issues, bring 2 mages, both with winter's grasp and barrier and maybe even ice mine. 

[Biotic Flash Kick]

DW rogue is arguably the strongest and most fun PC build to run preskyhold NM. A dwarven tank is also a contender but nowhere near as enjoyable.

DW rogue Shatter combos is the most potent and consistent burst damage dealer in the game preksyhold and barrier gives you enough time to deal damage. If youre having issues, bring 2 mages, both with winter's grasp and barrier and maybe even ice mine. 

Ice mine is nasty when a DW rogue is around

 

only thing that archer would do is archer's lance if they were lined up correctly :DD

[Greywinter]

I use tactical mode all the time but there is just too much micromanagement involved in playing melee rogue.

 

I loved micromanagement in BG and IWD games and first DA but in this game its just extremely tedious and unenjoyable and even after so much micromanagement I keep dying to Elite enemies sweep and aoe attacks even if I am flanking (btw I am always flanking).

 

The idea of playing protagonist melee rogue is to be able take on the toughest enemies even in toe to toe combat and then dance around that target while slicing it up. Rogues are not meant to be ultra squishy, a ranged rogue may be squishy but melee rogue should have some defensive abilities or increased health to sustain him in melee. Stealth don't do anything against elite enemies or elementals sweep attacks and aoes.  

 

Melee Rogues should be able to take a couple of hits or effectively dodge those hits. I tried using parry skill but its useless, also sometimes it doesn't even work, not sure if its a glitch or what.

[Lebanese Dude]

It's simple.

If you don't want to micromanage melee rogues, then just craft two daggers that grant guard on hit and preemptively slap them with a barrier during combat. Give them the dodge, stealth, and/or parry abilities and prioritize them as Preferred.

You will only need to manually move them for AOE attacks but that's the case in any game for any character.

This is as much as you can go to fully automate a melee rogue, although it will never be as efficient as a controlled one.

[arkngt]

The idea of playing protagonist melee rogue is to be able take on the toughest enemies even in toe to toe combat and then dance around that target while slicing it up. 

 

Not really. If a low level DW Rogue takes on a boss that swings around an AoE weapon, of course he/she will get hurt. Basically, you must choose the tactics that is appropriate for the game. You can't say "I should be able to take on this melee boss toe to toe" if it actually isn't the case. Either play Rogue in a game where it fits your playstyle or change your playstyle so it fits the game.

[Alan Drifter13]

Kill all the weak enemies first, while your tank gets the attention of the big enemies with AOE attacks. Ideally, you should always kill all the archers first (get close to them with stealth, attack them from behind, ideally get a mage to freeze them before you start so you can detonate the combo with twin fangs), and then get to the big guys.

 

Without the archers to attack you from behind, it will be much harder for you to die quickly. You still need to be careful with AOE attacks, but enemies usually have a pattern, so stay away while they do them (if you are an Assasin, you can use "throwing blades" in the meantime, for a lot of damage, especially if you combine it with mark of death) and then get close again, always from behind, while your tank taunts them. Once you learn how to do this you'll hardly ever die, and you'll deal A LOT of damage, which is a lot of fun.

 

 

I played my first PT with an assassin and the 2nd one (in nightmare) with a KE. This 2nd time I ended up controlling Cole a lot because I missed the fun of the assassin play style.

[Arvaarad]

Don't attack enemies with melee AoE attacks until you have tools to deal with them (Hidden Blades, Lightning Flask, Throwing Knives, etc.), unless you're prepared to do a lot of evading.

If you're in a party, let other party members deal with them while you focus on quickly eliminating squishies. If you're solo, just ignore them. There's a reason it only takes 2 points to get permastealth (via upgraded Flank Attack) - use it.

[SpazzticZeal]

What targets are you going for right away? You should be going after mages, archers and then helping the tank with melee. In that order. Combat awareness is key when playing a DW assassin, but once you figure it out they have the best burst damage in the game...by a long shot. Sounds to me like you are getting hit by melee AoE attacks. Let your tank deal with them at first and take out the squishies.

 

By Level 6 you should have the whole right side of the double dagger tree+flank attack and it's upgrade. Stealth...twin fang caster (should be close to dead) death blow... Move to next target..flank attacks (auto stealth) wait a bit for stamina and cool down on twin fang..rinse/repeat. Stuff dies.

 

There is really zero micro management there, just using your skills. But we have no idea how you spec.

[SpazzticZeal]

I use tactical mode all the time but there is just too much micromanagement involved in playing melee rogue.

 

I loved micromanagement in BG and IWD games and first DA but in this game its just extremely tedious and unenjoyable and even after so much micromanagement I keep dying to Elite enemies sweep and aoe attacks even if I am flanking (btw I am always flanking).

 

The idea of playing protagonist melee rogue is to be able take on the toughest enemies even in toe to toe combat and then dance around that target while slicing it up. Rogues are not meant to be ultra squishy, a ranged rogue may be squishy but melee rogue should have some defensive abilities or increased health to sustain him in melee. Stealth don't do anything against elite enemies or elementals sweep attacks and aoes.  

 

Melee Rogues should be able to take a couple of hits or effectively dodge those hits. I tried using parry skill but its useless, also sometimes it doesn't even work, not sure if its a glitch or what.

This isn't true in any RPG that I know of. Your ideal targets are mages and archers....

 

Assassins should have decent evade, but light armor and do mega burst damage. Glass cannons.

[DarkAmaranth1966]

Yes, a melee rogue is a glass cannon that needs to work from stealth as much as possible. NEVER go to to toe, especially with a boss, behind and, if you must side. A rouge makes up for lack of armor with stealth and movement. They never stand still in combat, never let the enemy get a face to face shot at them and, take out ranged opponents first - it's easier to dance in small circles than big ones so, get the ones that can move tho most and still hit you or your team first then go after the melee fighters, not too hard to dance circles around them and keep hitting.

[rekkaman]

you have 2 options in terms of surviability.  rely and stealth and move out of way of aoe when it happens (evade if you want to use it, or just walk) or try to soak it (Parry/ Flask of Frost/ Potions)

 

if you are using a party and not soloing then have your party weaken the enemy and if you are still dieing just have a tank with bodyguard.

[arkngt]

Complaining about this is a bit like complaining about how pieces move in chess. "I should be allowed to move the Knight like a Queen". The main point of games in general is to adapt to their rules and then do as good as possible while following them.

[Greywinter]

Well i dont have to do so much song and dance with a dps (non-tank) warrior, so why do i need to do so micromanagement with a melee rogue, just seems out of balance and endlessly tedious. Loved micromanagement in BG and IWD games but here its just ridiculous specially with all the camera and zoom in (out) problems.

 

I have been playing RPGs for about 20 years now and my impression after 70 hours of trying, in this game, is that the melee rogue in this game needs a lot more work from Bioware, the game play of a melee rogue is far from smooth. It is playable but its really just a headache.

 

Really thinking about abandoning it, thinking about playing knight commander mage, seems like a good option. 

[Greywinter]

Complaining about this is a bit like complaining about how pieces move in chess. "I should be allowed to move the Knight like a Queen". The main point of games in general is to adapt to their rules and then do as good as possible while following them.

Wrong example friend.

[I saved Star Wars :D]

Are you really referring to playing a character as micro managing it!?

All the aoes have an obvious wind up, jury learn to use evade or lower the difficulty :3

[I saved Star Wars :D]

Are you really referring to playing a character as micro managing it!?

All the aoes have an obvious wind up, just learn to use evade or lower the difficulty :3

[Gya]

Not exactly sure what you mean by micromanaging here? If you mean you can't leave the AI to control a dw rogue, then yeah... It is a bit pants tbh. I've not really used Cole all that much on my non-rogue playthroughs, and I controlled my rogue pc most of the time, so not sure if the AI handles a properly built dw assassin well. But for controlling your rogue pc, you shouldn't need tac cam any more than any other class?

If you're using aoe daggers, bear in mind that auto attack will make you move forward even if you're not holding down the key/controller to move. It can really screw you over when you're trying to stay behind an enemy. My main gambit pre-Skyhold was to use twin fangs and auto attack to finish off mooks, and for brutes or bears or any enemy with those ridiculous 360 degree hitboxes, was to wait until they weren't about to attack, run in and hit as hard as I could, and then run away again like the coward that I am. It can take a while to whittle down their health, and mis-timing it can leave you almost dead, but things do get much better later on.

Once you get specialisations and good gear, your burst damage is enough to one shot most mooks even on nightmare. 2h brute throwing a tantrum like a moody toddler? Aw hell no, Mark of death + stealth + hidden blades + pop the mark GO SIT IN THE NAUGHTY CORNER AND THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU'VE DONE. That basic rotation will outright kill most elites and take a hefty chunk out of bosses. For even more OP, use Sera and thousand cuts while your mark is up. Goodbye, sweet dragon. I will miss your guard-spam...

[SpazzticZeal]

Well i dont have to do so much song and dance with a dps (non-tank) warrior, so why do i need to do so micromanagement with a melee rogue, just seems out of balance and endlessly tedious. Loved micromanagement in BG and IWD games but here its just ridiculous specially with all the camera and zoom in (out) problems.

 

I have been playing RPGs for about 20 years now and my impression after 70 hours of trying, in this game, is that the melee rogue in this game needs a lot more work from Bioware, the game play of a melee rogue is far from smooth. It is playable but its really just a headache.

 

Really thinking about abandoning it, thinking about playing knight commander mage, seems like a good option. 

 

This isn't micro managing anything, it's a how melee rogues are supposed to be played. Target acquisition, and positioning is hardly micro managing. I just think you haven't played many rogues/assassins the way seem to talk about them?

 

DPS (non tank) warriors still at least have some survive-ability with better armor and more HP's. 

 

Rogues..in any game, are NOT meant to face tank ANYTHING. This class just isn't for some people.

[Arvaarad]

DW rogues are the high skill floor, high skill ceiling class in almost every game I've played.

The high skill floor lets them have insane abilities without being crazily imbalanced.

Permanent, low cooldown stealth -> exploration quests just got a whole lot easier. Plus, they can easily escape from fights that are too high level - Stealth, then Flank Attack to turn it into permanent stealth. They can also fight entirely from stealth if they want to chip away at high-level enemies. Just chain Flank Attack.

Fastest attack speed -> guard on hit, health on hit, Hidden Blades on hit, "chance to cast X on hit", Pincushion...

Lots of ways to increase crit chance, without having to build it into armor -> absurd damage with Mighty Offense Tonics, fast stamina regen, can sunder an enemy down to 0 armor in a few hits.

AoE autoattacks with dual-blade daggers -> because dealing 5-10k autoattacks to one target isn't juicy enough.

If DW rogues were sturdier, everyone would be playing them and complaining about how OP they are.

[Wulfram]

I do think there are too many overly wide AoE melee abilities. Like those bloody bears who damage you when you're standing behind them.

Though overall I find melee rogue OK as the protagonist, because I don't mind spending a bunch of time controlling them. But I really can't be bothered with Cole.