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I'll never save the council again. The new council in ME3 is way better.


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#51
katamuro

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Considering he was bitter and the way he was because his own father wanted to kill him because he was doing things differently than the krogan had always done I do not think there was a change of character. He already knew what was wrong with his people but simply did not think that they could be changed, his experience with shepard makes him go back and try again. Thats it. 

Liara's character was not really there during the first game, after all she was young and quite sheltered, then she discovers her mother is a reaper mind-slave, loses her as she gets killed by shepard no less, travels with shepard and sees the violence, death and destruction only to get blown up by a collector cruiser, shepard dies. She was determined before but the losses and experiences that she had in just that short amount of time made her look harder at what is really happening. 

 

Also in ME1 shepard's appointment as spectre, the political background makes it clear that humanity wishes to be more than just spectators, it wishes to participate in council decisions and that shepard is one of those who can prove that humanity is ready. Allowing the council that made you the spectre to die is not exactly a good job recommendation. 



#52
Fixers0

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Also in ME1 shepard's appointment as spectre, the political background makes it clear that humanity wishes to be more than just spectators, it wishes to participate in council decisions and that shepard is one of those who can prove that humanity is ready. Allowing the council that made you the spectre to die is not exactly a good job recommendation.

 

Quite the contrary, regardless of cirumstances the ending itself makes clear that with council and Citadel fleets gone it is now humanity's chance to take the lead. Mass Effect 2 confirms this by plainly stating that humanity seized political control of the galaxy.   



#53
themikefest

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a lot of times I never recruit Wrex



#54
Pasquale1234

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Interestingly, should the council perish. Udina says something remarkebly similiar, namely that should the Reapers arrive the galaxy will need  strong leadership, he also adds that the old council was prone to debate and infighting and that new leadship can't afford such a weakness, hence we end up with a Human chairman or an all-human council. Regardless, the new council would have to be more pratical and less political, not that such a thing ever occurend in, but that was still the intent.


No real surprise, I don't suppose. The writers like to stroke whatever choices the player makes, and continues to promote humanity above all else throughout the series.

Realistically, though, I never did think much of Udina, and thought it foolish of him to demand Council support for human colonies outside of Council space. IRL, when you constantly ask for demand assistance with things you ought to be able to handle yourself, you invite greater scrutiny of any other request you might make - even when your request is entirely legitimate and really does concern the welfare of the entire galaxy. Were it IRL, Udina crying wolf a few too many times could have been part of the reason the Council found it so easy to dismiss Shepard wrt the reapers.

#55
katamuro

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Man I dont know how you can get by without him. His tank/biotic abilities were just so useful for soaking up the damage. Plus he is pretty funny on the various elevator rides.



#56
themikefest

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Man I dont know how you can get by without him. His tank/biotic abilities were just so useful for soaking up the damage. Plus he is pretty funny on the various elevator rides.

The first time I told Wrex I didn't want him on the ship, he pushed me. Pushing a woman. That's a no go. Too bad I couldn't shoot the clown for doing that. He and Harkin would make for good friends treating a woman like crap



#57
RatThing

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Wrex's attitude in the first game cannot be only explained with bitterness. You'll learn from him that he performed contract kills on businessmen in Noveria, was piracing (for Saren) and even wanted to kill a friend for credits. There's not a bit of bitterness in his words when he talks about the thing with Aleena, it sounds like it was an adventure for him. He was sizing up everyone for a fight (elevator). His first reaction to conflicts was always violence and intimidation (Virmire, Rachni Queen). You could see that his whole nature was inherently violent and ruthless and because of that he was the prime example why Krogans were considered dangerous. (And this also made the character more interesting). Yet what was it how he was called in the 3rd game? An anomaly? And I'm supposed to forget all these things. This is why i liked the Genophage arc much more with Wreav. With him you don't get these nonsense lines like "hire him a food taster" or "the other Krogans aren't like you Wrex".  


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#58
Daemul

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Wrex's attitude in the first game cannot be only explained with bitterness. You'll learn from him that he performed contract kills on businessmen in Noveria, was piracing (for Saren) and even wanted to kill a friend for credits. There's not a bit of bitterness in his words when he talks about the thing with Aleena, it sounds like it was an adventure for him. He was sizing up everyone for a fight (elevator). His first reaction to conflicts was always violence and intimidation (Virmire, Rachni Queen). You could see that his whole nature was inherently violent and ruthless and because of that he was the prime example why Krogans were considered dangerous. (And this also made the character more interesting). Yet what was it how he was called in the 3rd game? An anomaly? And I'm supposed to forget all these things. This is why i liked the Genophage arc much more with Wreav. With him you don't get these nonsense lines like "hire him a food taster" or "the other Krogans aren't like you Wrex".  

 

107211-Arnold-Schwarzenegger-biceps-h-DX

 

I was about to type out a long ass post detailing why Wrex's change was complete BS, but you pretty much covered the general gist of of it.

 

Thanks for saving me 30 minutes of typing  :P


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#59
Vazgen

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107211-Arnold-Schwarzenegger-biceps-h-DX

 

I was about to type out a long ass post detailing why Wrex's change was complete BS, but you pretty much covered the general gist of of it.

 

Thanks for saving me 30 minutes of typing  :P

I would've liked to see this in the game :D



#60
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Wrex's attitude in the first game cannot be only explained with bitterness. You'll learn from him that he performed contract kills on businessmen in Noveria, was piracing (for Saren) and even wanted to kill a friend for credits. There's not a bit of bitterness in his words when he talks about the thing with Aleena, it sounds like it was an adventure for him. He was sizing up everyone for a fight (elevator). His first reaction to conflicts was always violence and intimidation (Virmire, Rachni Queen). You could see that his whole nature was inherently violent and ruthless and because of that he was the prime example why Krogans were considered dangerous. (And this also made the character more interesting). Yet what was it how he was called in the 3rd game? An anomaly? And I'm supposed to forget all these things. This is why i liked the Genophage arc much more with Wreav. With him you don't get these nonsense lines like "hire him a food taster" or "the other Krogans aren't like you Wrex".  

 

Even in ME3 that "anomaly" talk didn't quite work. The only reason he was the biggest leader of the Krogan was because he was good at their war games. He could only get into his position by being as vicious and brutal as the rest of them, and it's not like he ever seemed sorry to have to do it (nor should he be imo, that's who he and the Krogan are, his character should stay true to that). He was still somewhat violent and impulsive, like with his arrival on Sur'Kesh and the way he was laughing when Wreav got eaten, if I remember that scene quite right. But for whatever reason ME2 and 3 just treated Wrex's violence more lightly, kind of comically. Like, "That's our Wrex!" which got kind of irritating.

 

Eve is a little annoying for similar reasons. We're supposed to believe that female Krogan don't want wars and they love all their children and why can't the world be run by women blah blah (IRL women may well run the world better than us men, but in this context it was annoying). There have been female warlords, and Krogan mothers have been letting their pups or whatever they're called kill each other in the nest so the strongest survive, to grow up and go off killing each other on the battlefield. But all of a sudden they aren't like the males.

 

It was kind of silly that the Genophage arc sold you the idea that Wrex and Eve alone could make that much of a difference to Krogan attitudes. I get that the devs had to make curing the Genophage a viable option, but even so, if you think about it the Krogan are going to do whatever they're going to do regardless of who's leading. And like you said, I get the feeling that a Wreav playthrough allows you to view it more realistically without the rose tinted view of Wrex. I always liked Wrex in general, but his portrayal in 3 definitely felt kind of off.



#61
ComfortablyNumb

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Not having Jack has quite an impact. The same can be said about Tali, I think. You get to see Admiral Xen in action :)

 

I'm not a fan of squadmates being forced on me, so I actually got Tali killed few times, just so I can have more options for Dreadnought mission. :) 


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#62
Valmar

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I'm not a fan of squadmates being forced on me, so I actually got Tali killed few times, just so I can have more options for Dreadnought mission. :)

 

How is it more options? Either way you're forced with someone, aren't you? Doesn't Xen just replace Tali in that mandatory spotlight? 



#63
Vazgen

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How is it more options? Either way you're forced with someone, aren't you? Doesn't Xen just replace Tali in that mandatory spotlight? 

Nope, you can take any two squadmates to the dreadnought and Xen follows your squad when you clear the path.



#64
Valmar

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Nope, you can take any two squadmates to the dreadnought and Xen follows your squad when you clear the path.

 

Interesting. I wonder, then, why it couldn't be the same case with Tali alive, if it wasn't necessary for them to be part of the squad to be worked into the mission setup. 



#65
themikefest

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I actually like Xen's dialogue on the dreadnought more than I like Tali's dialogue


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#66
Kabooooom

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If you truly aren't metagaming, then picking any other choice rather than "focus on Sovereign" is really strategically foolish. The council dies as a result of that, it is what it is. But that is really the only choice that is justifiable with the information that Shepard has in the game at the end of ME1

#67
katamuro

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Not really, after all while Sovereign did some posturing and all that Shepard doesnt know how tough it is. And since most of the battle seems to be against the geth ships letting the alliance cruisers come in and save the big gun that the Destiny Ascension is seems prudent. 

 

But at the same time you are right, it was my choice when I played the game the first time. Later I thought it would have been better to let the council live(before I played the ME2). 



#68
Fixers0

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I look at it as follows: the Destiny Ascension is said to be the most powerfull ship in Council space, having almost as much firepower as the rest of the entire Asari fleet. As such it is a significant obastacle in the way of getting more power to the Systems Alliance, by letting that ship be destroyed we significantly improved the Alliance bargaining position, hence Mass Effect 2 tells us that humanity seized political control of council space.   



#69
Quarian Master Race

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It's completely irrelevant. ME2's implication of a human council is retconned and you get 3 more people who refuse to listen to you, so you are screwed either way. I always let the originals die, mostly out of spite for Sparatus, though I also prefer Esheel to Valern. Tevos and Irissa are both okay and I don't prefer one or the other.



#70
Pasquale1234

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If you truly aren't metagaming, then picking any other choice rather than "focus on Sovereign" is really strategically foolish. The council dies as a result of that, it is what it is. But that is really the only choice that is justifiable with the information that Shepard has in the game at the end of ME1


That's certainly one way to look at it.

Another is to use the rescue of the Ascension as the first strike in a multi-part battle plan. You'll need to take out some geth ships to get to Sovereign, anyway, and there will be losses regardless of your approach. Once it's out of danger, you'll have another pretty big hammer to use in your offensive versus Sovereign. If everybody is solely focused on Sovereign, (while ignoring the geth fleets) you could potentially end up with much heavier losses.

#71
themikefest

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Another is to use the rescue of the Ascension as the first strike in a multi-part battle plan.

That decision I would've left up to Hackett and not Shepard. Hackett can see first hand the battle and knows the strength of the fleet he has with him whereas Shepard has no idea what's going on
 

You'll need to take out some geth ships to get to Sovereign, anyway, and there will be losses regardless of your approach.


I'm surprised the alliance took as many losses as they did if saving the destiny ascension since they had the element of surprise.
 

Once it's out of danger, you'll have another pretty big hammer to use in your offensive versus Sovereign.

That pretty big hammer is nowhere to be seen to help fight Sovereign after being saved



#72
Pasquale1234

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That decision I would've left up to Hackett and not Shepard. Hackett can see first hand the battle and knows the strength of the fleet he has with him whereas Shepard has no idea what's going on


Yeah, it was another one of those 'give the player a choice they have no business making' moments that are pretty prevalent in a lot of games.
 

I'm surprised the alliance took as many losses as they did if saving the destiny ascension since they had the element of surprise.


You have to wonder exactly what the fleets had been directed to do. It's as if they're all hovering around waiting for Shepard to direct them. It's silly.
 

That pretty big hammer is nowhere to be seen to help fight Sovereign after being saved


Not in the cutscenes we were shown. The cinematic designer gave Joker and the Normandy the killshot.

Of course, at the time the player makes the choice, you don't know any of that.

#73
KotorEffect3

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It's definitely a change of flavor so every once in a while I will do a playthrough where they get toasted in ME 1.  Though I have to say Tevos is much better looking than her replacement.



#74
warblewobble

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I save the council purely for Sparatus and his little air-quote finger gestures. Too funny.

 

Still, I wish ME3 had a renegade interrupt option to throw that back in his face.

 

Shepard: Oh, you mean (making gesture) "reapers?" I thought you had dismissed those claims.


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#75
KotorEffect3

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I save the council purely for Sparatus and his little air-quote finger gestures. Too funny.

 

Still, I wish ME3 had a renegade interrupt option to throw that back in his face.

 

Shepard: Oh, you mean (making gesture) "reapers?" I thought you had dismissed those claims.

 

 

Yeah I think everbody was hoping to see that.  Shepard does get to throw the whole "I warned you" line in his face but then Sparatus says something along the lines of they shouldn't argue over the past.  Funny how having his own world getting curb stomped by the reapers makes Sparatus less antagonistic towards Shepard.  Still Sparatus and the other councilors should have had the balls to show up in combat armor ready to help fight during priority Earth like Primarch Victus did.  They owed Shepard that much and so much more.