33% more people who can kill the Archdemon isn't compelling?
Using percent makes sense when you are talking a larger sample set. This means nothing here. He adds just one more and not really added. He is a replacement for Alistair only. If you lose all those people one Aliistair is not realistically going to make it happen. He is going to so lose on his own.
It was always Al or Loghain not both.
Loghain: “Which fate is worse, I wonder? To live as a slave or to die without hope in the Alienage?
Me: This from the so-called "freedom fighter". ****** hypocrite.
On top of that, the fact that he's selling them to Tevinter kinda causes his excuse of "selling them off to save them" to fly out the window given what Tevinter casually does to their slaves (Read, blood sacrifice, cannon fodder against the Qunari, experiments, all manner of abuse, FENRIS.)
On another note, his question reminds me of Saren’s.
“Is submission not preferable to extinction?”
Loghain: “Which fate is worse, I wonder? To live as a slave or to die without hope in the Alienage?
Me: This from the so-called "freedom fighter". ****** hypocrite.
On top of that, the fact that he's selling them to Tevinter kinda causes his excuse of "selling them off to save them" to fly out the window given what Tevinter casually does to their slaves (Read, blood sacrifice, cannon fodder against the Qunari, experiments, all manner of abuse, FENRIS.)
On another note, his question reminds me of Saren’s.
“Is submission not preferable to extinction?”
Where have you been all my life?!
This drives me crazy about Loghain also.
Loghain: “Which fate is worse, I wonder? To live as a slave or to die without hope in the Alienage?"
Me: Which fate is worse, I wonder? To live under Orlesian occupation or to die without hope against the Blight? Oh wait, you actively sabotaged stopping the Blight because you wouldn't hear of even risking human freedom by accepting "Orlesian aid" (Grey Wardens and all), but you had no problem selling elven freedom to fund your civil war to keep your own butt on the throne. I guess it's fine to live enslaved when you're an elf, but it's better to die fighting darkspawn to retain your freedom than live in subjugation only if you're human. (Because he didn't sell poor humans into slavery, only elves.)
I find Loghain to be an infuriating hypocrite. He commits so many atrocities and betrayals over the game, and all of them rest on the excuse, "I'm just trying to keep Ferelden independent." And yet he sold Ferelden citizens into slavery. Actual slavery, not military occupation he calls "slavery" because he's a self-centered git who thinks subjugation is an unforgivable travesty only when it happens to him and his, but is just fine when he does it to "a bunch of elves."
To me, the second he sold his own citizens into slavery, his catch-all excuse of trying to keep his country free flew right out the window. I too lost all respect for this supposed "freedom fighter."
I find Loghain to be an infuriating hypocrite. He commits so many atrocities and betrayals over the game, and all of them rest on the excuse, "I'm just trying to keep Ferelden independent." And yet he sold Ferelden citizens into slavery. Actual slavery, not military occupation he calls "slavery" because he's a self-centered git who thinks subjugation is an unforgivable travesty only when it happens to him and his, but is just fine when he does it to "a bunch of elves."
Another lens to look at this through is the idea of sacrificing the few to preserve the many.
I've heard that **** and bull before.
He would never hear of even risking human freedom to save human lives by accepting what he sees as "Orlesian" aid (even the Grey Wardens), but he had no problem selling elves into actual slavery to save his own throne.
The one excuse he always gives for his many travesties is to "ensure Ferelden's independence," yet he sells Ferelden citizens into slavery. So much for freedom and independence; I guess as long as it's to "elves," it's okay. He also says so in the face of an Elven Warden (I don't know if you've ever actually played an Elven Warden, but it's HUGE slap in the face) completely unaware and uncaring of his own hypocrisy and double standard.
It's easy for us to forget that any time any army has ever marched or town militia assembled, there's always a situation where some people are putting themselves on the line to save the others. Loghain was one such person who willingly risked his own life to free Ferelden.
Except he doesn't risk his own life to free Ferelden. He risks and throws away other people's lives, something he admits to the Warden if you spare him and bring him back to Camp.
What we don't actually know is whether Loghain would have been willing to sell human peasants for the same purpose. City Elves were an easier target.
No, we know he wouldn't sell human peasants.
You want to know why? Because if you spare him and call him out on slave-trading (3:15 - 6:15), he never calls the people he sold "people." He only ever calls the them "elves." And I mean that emphasis. "Elves." He spits the word like it's trash. That should tell you right there that he has no problem selling "elves" because to him they're not people. They're just "elves," it's not like they deserve the same rights and dignities as humans.
Also, if you call him out on slave-trading as an elf (even a city elf), he is completely dismissive and contemptuous, despite how he'll complain to anyone who'll listen about the "slavery" he suffered under Orlais. You would think that he of all people would feel sympathy and remorse for an enslaved people, and/or do anything in his power to prevent his people being actually enslaved after the "slavery" he suffered. But no. He thinks it's just fine when it happens to "elves." He'll boil over with rage at the thought of a human freeholder being whipped to death by an Orlesian noble, but he's actually annoyed by an "elf" calling him out on selling other "elves" to Tevinter.
"Which is worse, I wonder? To live as a slave, or die without hope in the alienage?"
I don't know, which is worse? To live under occupation in Orlais or to die without hope as the darkspawn swallow up the south because you refuse to accept help? I see how Loghain thinks; freedom is non-negotiable for humans, but it has a price tag for "elves."
He's NOTHING but a racist, self-rightous hypocrite with a glaring double standard between human freedom and elven freedom. And I can't stand him.
I've heard that **** and bull before.
Except he doesn't risk his own life to free Ferelden. He risks and throws away other people's lives, something he admits to the Warden if you spare him and bring him back to Camp.
No, we know he wouldn't sell human peasants.
"Which is worse, I wonder? To live as a slave, or die without hope in the alienage?"
I don't know, which is worse? To live under occupation in Orlais or to die without hope as the darkspawn swallow up the south because you refuse to accept help? I see how Loghain thinks; freedom is non-negotiable for humans, but it has a price tag for "elves."
He's NOTHING but a racist, self-rightous hypocrite with a glaring double standard between human freedom and elven freedom. And I can't stand him.
You don't really live as a slave in Tevinter if you're an elf, iirc, so it's more "Which is worse, I wonder? To die as a blood mage's sacrifice, or die without hope in the alienage?"
That kind of open hostility doesn't invite discussion.
There is no discussion. He's a racist hypocrite with a double standard between human freedom and elven freedom. There are those who see that and those who refuse to see it.
If you're seeking to provide some sort of evidence that Loghain has never actually fought in a battle, a more specific reference would be appreciated. He says that he's killed men by his own hand in that video you referenced, at ~ 3:40.
Okay, he fought in battles against Orlais back when it was actually oppressing Ferelden, but I don't see him actually risking his own hide in the game. In fact, sending people out to die in Ostagar was pretty much his first move in the main game. He'll sacrifice soldiers in battle and elves to slavery to ensure his own safety and throne, but, ya know...
You might believe you know that, but I certainly don't. You might also notice that Loghain's VA is pretty intense overall, and spits out a lot of words.
I don't think it's any coincidence that the man spits the word "elf" like it's poison when he's trying to rationalize selling "elves" into slavery; like somehow being "elves" decreases the severity of his crime. And despite "Ferelden's independence" being his claimed objective, selling his own people into slavery is the crime he loses the least sleep over. I guess slavery is only an unforgivable travesty when it happens to him and his. "Elves?" It's totally fine.
Conscripting soldiers - or GW - is also a form of slavery. If the former are lucky, they may survive and return to their lives someday. If the latter survive the joining, they'll be tainted for the rest of their shortened lives. Conscription, however, is considered necessary in some circumstances, and practiced in Thedas.
At least they're indiscriminate about who they pick, and make sure they actually need the person before conscripting, and put it to a noble cause of, you know, keeping all life from being wiped out on the planet.
Unlike this selfish idiot, who chose to ignore everyone around him telling him "This is a Blight. We need the Grey Wardens. We need help. This is a Blight. We need the Grey Wardens. We need help." Then waited until the entire country was overrun with darkspawn before he would consider changing tactics; either step down from his regency to end the civil war to focus on fighting the Blight (since the only reason the nobles rebelled was because they saw him as a power-grabbing tyrnat), or sell his own people into slavery to fill his own coffers to keep fighting the civil war to keep trying to force the nobles into line while ignoring the Blight. He decided slavery was the better alternative to admitting he was wrong; and he was fine selling "elves" as long as it meant defending his own power.
As near as I can tell, that was a reference to the possibility of darkspawn overrunning the alienage. It's not an invalid question.
The darkspawn would have had to overrun ALL of Denerim to even reach the alienage. They would have had to get through the outer city walls and storm the human city districts to even reach the alienage, which is somewhere near the center of the city. The human marketplace is ALSO overrun with darkspawn when you play the final battle in the main game, lest you forget. Yet I don't see Loghain selling Denerim humans to "protect them from the darkspawn."
His excuse is a complete and utter bullsh*t rationalization he uses to try to justify something he was going to do anyway.
It's the worst punishment one can have?
There is no discussion. He's a racist hypocrite with a double standard between human freedom and elven freedom. There are those who see that and those who refuse to see it.
You mean he's Anders? *gaps* Nah, Loghian isn't that bad compared to Anders - hypercrital (doesn't like to be called a abomination, is a abomination who proves Cullen's point that Mages can blow up a city, allows Justice to take over his body, etc.) Although I use not to like Loghain, i like em more now, lol.
There is no discussion. He's a racist hypocrite with a double standard between human freedom and elven freedom. There are those who see that and those who refuse to see it.
Okay, he fought in battles against Orlais back when it was actually oppressing Ferelden, but I don't see him actually risking his own hide in the game.
I don't think it's any coincidence that the man spits the word "elf" like it's poison when he's trying to rationalize selling "elves" into slavery; like somehow being "elves" decreases the severity of his crime. And despite "Ferelden's independence" being his claimed objective, selling his own people into slavery is the crime he loses the least sleep over. I guess slavery is only an unforgivable travesty when it happens to him and his. "Elves?" It's totally fine.
At least they're indiscriminate about who they pick, and make sure they actually need the person before conscripting, and put it to a noble cause of, you know, keeping all life from being wiped out on the planet.
Unlike this selfish idiot, who chose to ignore everyone around him telling him "This is a Blight. We need the Grey Wardens. We need help. This is a Blight. We need the Grey Wardens. We need help." Then waited until the entire country was overrun with darkspawn before he would consider changing tactics; either step down from his regency to end the civil war to focus on fighting the Blight (since the only reason the nobles rebelled was because they saw him as a power-grabbing tyrnat), or sell his own people into slavery to fill his own coffers to keep fighting the civil war to keep trying to force the nobles into line while ignoring the Blight. He decided slavery was the better alternative to admitting he was wrong; and he was fine selling "elves" as long as it meant defending his own power.
The darkspawn would have had to overrun ALL of Denerim to even reach the alienage. They would have had to get through the outer city walls and storm the human city districts to even reach the alienage, which is somewhere near the center of the city.
Loghain led the Night Elves during the Rebellion.
I don't think if he truly practiced racism, he would be able to do that.
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