Aller au contenu

Photo

examining the weapons by what they're best at


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
27 réponses à ce sujet

#1
JRandall0308

JRandall0308
  • Members
  • 1 695 messages

Thanks to the excellent work by Shadohz and everyone who contributes to his Multiplayer Equipment Document. I couldn't have done this without you.

 

Because Ability damage is tied to weapon base damage, you're often best off choosing the weapon that has the highest base damage. But when damage values are close, you start to look at the Properties instead.

 

Every weapon in DAI has at least one Property attached to it. In the inventory view in-game, it's hard to compare multiple items to each other. So I examined all the Properties for every weapon.

 

Several Properties are common across many weapons (for example, Attack bonuses or statistics bonuses). A few Properties are sufficiently special that I call them out.

 

Bows

Spoiler

 

Daggers

Spoiler

 

One-Handed

Spoiler

 

Staves

Spoiler

 

Two-Handed

Spoiler

  • Robbiesan, CitizenThom, Catastrophy et 4 autres aiment ceci

#2
JRandall0308

JRandall0308
  • Members
  • 1 695 messages

reserved just in case



#3
ALTBOULI

ALTBOULI
  • Members
  • 2 714 messages
This is why I wish unique weapons could be scaled up. Take for example the unique high level daggers Agnoy and Walking death. They give the assassin a new dimesion, allowing you to deal witb crowds of enemies at once. I often throw hidden blades into a enemy at the centre of the group. More often than not I will get one of the special activating (often chain lightning followed by walking bomb). I wish all unique could be a minimum of lvl 20 as many have interesting perks but are simply too low level to use
  • Genocalypse et CelticRanger275 aiment ceci

#4
DrKilledbyDeath

DrKilledbyDeath
  • Members
  • 1 222 messages

Is there going to be input on which weapons are better and why, or is this just a list?



#5
Stinja

Stinja
  • Members
  • 1 943 messages

I did a check on damage for 2handed weapons a while ago, multiplying the base by whatever modifiers they got (strength, attack etc):

 

[WeaponDmg * (1 + CritDmg%) * (1 + FlankDmg%) * (1 + BarrierDmg%) * (1 + GuardDmg%) - Armor *(1 - ArmorPen%)] * (1 + Attk%) *AbilityMultiplier%

 
Big Bone = 403 (+ 8% crit chance, grip + pommel)
Sulevine = 329 (+ 11% armour pen adjustment)
Starfang = 301 (+ 11% armour pen)
Sundering = 287 (haft + pommel)
Mhemet’s War hammer = 282 (+7% guard dam)
Longbar Blade = 247 (grip + pommel)
Axe of the Dragon Hunter = 238 / 249 / 261 / 272 / 283 / etc  (+11.35/enemy , +28% crit chance)
Slayer = 239 (+7% crit chance)
 
Obviously Sulevine has it's Pull of the Abyss, and AoE 2handers are better than equivalent damage maul, but not many special effects going on though.
Boon of the Spoon has stagger, and explode on kill, but is kinda weak in straight damage.


#6
haxaw

haxaw
  • Members
  • 303 messages

 

Big Bone = 403 (+ 8% crit chance, grip + pommel)

 

Does anyone have a screenshot of Big Bone? I've read stats on it before, but have yet to actually see one or hear of someone who has it.

 

Also, just to be super picky, I think those numbers you calculate are missing some stats (strength), as well as other gear we might be wearing. So, the precise numbers are not going to be super accurate. Nonetheless, it's the relative comparisons we'd be interested in, so that's all that matters.

 

Thanks, and good job!


  • Drasca aime ceci

#7
Beerfish

Beerfish
  • Members
  • 23 870 messages

Does anyone have a screenshot of Big Bone? I've read stats on it before, but have yet to actually see one or hear of someone who has it.

 

Also, just to be super picky, I think those numbers you calculate are missing some stats (strength), as well as other gear we might be wearing. So, the precise numbers are not going to be super accurate. Nonetheless, it's the relative comparisons we'd be interested in, so that's all that matters.

 

Thanks, and good job!

I would think doing a google search for big bone may have undesirable results

 

(Thanks for the data JRandall, some weapons are pretty deceiving about just how good they are on 1st glance due to lower damage that is for sure.)


  • haxaw aime ceci

#8
Stinja

Stinja
  • Members
  • 1 943 messages

Does anyone have a screenshot of Big Bone? I've read stats on it before, but have yet to actually see one or hear of someone who has it.

 

Also, just to be super picky, I think those numbers you calculate are missing some stats (strength), as well as other gear we might be wearing. 

 

Only seen it in the Spreadsheet, so i don't know if it even exists.  There is a one-handed weapon called the Bone though, so seems plausible.

 

And yes, i can't calculate for what an individual has equipped (amulets etc or haft and pommel).



#9
Shadohz

Shadohz
  • Members
  • 1 662 messages

Only seen it in the Spreadsheet, so i don't know if it even exists.  

You're not the only one that suspects that. I've had to correct other entries made by the player who reported this item. It's on my Elusive 5 list of weapons I've never owned. If I get it then it deserves it's own video series.

 

Nice job Randell. Guess who gets stuck with the MP doc when I retire. You're the only person besides myself and perhaps Stinja that's a stickler for consistency and syntax as well as accuracy. I might have been able to save you a fair bit of trouble by adding a special filter to the Statistics page outlying the "highest" of specified categories or just given you mod permissions to do it. Worst that could happen, you somehow mess up the document and be outcast by all of DAMP.  :lol:



#10
Altruismo

Altruismo
  • Members
  • 192 messages

You're not the only one that suspects that. I've had to correct other entries made by the player who reported this item. It's on my Elusive 5 list of weapons I've never owned. If I get it then it deserves it's own video series.

 

I suspect Big Bone maybe be a single-player inclusion, perhaps other dubious items reported by the same player (and having been a keen purveyor of your spreadsheet for quite a while I even know the contributor you're talking about) are also SP drops, probably due to a mis-undertsanding. I know I've seen people post SP items in the MP loot bragging thread by mistake also.

Considering how often I see Sulevin Blade, and how I've never seen anyone with a two-hander that could be described as a "bone", I'm guessing it's not legit.

Would be cool if it's a SP drop that does make it's way into the SP loot table someday...



#11
Shadohz

Shadohz
  • Members
  • 1 662 messages

Is there going to be input on which weapons are better and why, or is this just a list?

What best is quite subjective at times. Take for example Staves. I have Staff of Void, Veil, Pyre, and Purity's Light all maxed. I've been asked my opinion several times on which is the 'best' staff and it always came down to situational use and player's own experiences with it. Most will probably tell you "SoV or gtfo". However I see the SoV as the lolcrutch staff. It's made to give player survivability (or gawd-status in case of AW). Veil is a great staff on my defensive-build keeper because of the extra Veilstrike. Overall it's still a pretty good staff for any kit. I like the Pyre on my cold-damage kits because it gives me two different common element damage types. I used to underestimate Purity's Light. I've sense corrected that error in judgement. Having the Superb Crit Damage ring doesn't hurt either (flashpoint Ele  :wub: ). 

Another example, I had unlocked two Gift of Talons while I was still a noob Assassin back in Dec. I wrecked Threatening, robbing those poor Reavers of their much needed HoK. Having two versions made the Assassin a single-target beast. I've since upgraded to DW'ing BoRB and/or Agony, but I do miss the animation lightshow that 2 GoT's provided. It's really comes down to fun-factor, player skill, kit use/build type, and available equipment.

 

 

I suspect Big Bone maybe be a single-player inclusion, perhaps other dubious items reported by the same player (and having been a keen purveyor of your spreadsheet for quite a while I even know the contributor you're talking about) are also SP drops, probably due to a mis-undertsanding. I know I've seen people post SP items in the MP loot bragging thread by mistake also.

Considering how often I see Sulevin Blade, and how I've never seen anyone with a two-hander that could be described as a "bone", I'm guessing it's not legit.

Would be cool if it's a SP drop that does make it's way into the SP loot table someday...

Duly noted. I may delete its entry if I can't confirm Soul Sucker. There's a chance BW may add it later as part of DLC, so he should be given credit for the entry but not if it doesn't exist yet.



#12
JRandall0308

JRandall0308
  • Members
  • 1 695 messages

To answer the question, "Why do this?" -- mostly for my own curiosity and to decide which items to Salvage.

 

I plan to keep at least some items that are "best at" currently undervalued things like Armor Penetration or Barrier Damage. Because you never know when Bioware is going to modify the game to make those important, and suddenly you'll value those Properties more highly than mere DPS.

 

When I clean it up a bit I will share my modified spreadsheet with y'all. It involved splitting out each of the possible "Property" columns into their own column, if that makes any sense. A lot of tedious cutting and pasting, but the end result is that you can use the Filter command, or the MIN/MAX formulae, to examine various things.



#13
JRandall0308

JRandall0308
  • Members
  • 1 695 messages

Updated first post with One-Handed, Staves, and Two-Handed.



#14
MostlyAutumn

MostlyAutumn
  • Members
  • 272 messages
Minor correction: Fury of the Veil is +25 Magic, not Strength.

#15
KalGerion_Beast

KalGerion_Beast
  • Members
  • 1 370 messages

To further assist in information, by my estimate sulevin proc chance seems to be around 10-15%.  Not backed up quantitatively, but qualitatively.  I used starfang (2% chance to proc) beforehand, and sulevin noticeably procs much more often than starfang.  



#16
DrKilledbyDeath

DrKilledbyDeath
  • Members
  • 1 222 messages

To further assist in information, by my estimate sulevin proc chance seems to be around 10-15%.  Not backed up quantitatively, but qualitatively.  I used starfang (2% chance to proc) beforehand, and sulevin noticeably procs much more often than starfang.  

You think it does.

 

Bioware can correct me if I am wrong, but a 2% proc rate is going to mean you have a 2% chance each hit, not if you hit 100 times 2 times it will proc. I assume procs would operate under RNG as well, each hit is 2% but you won't be more likely to proc if you've gone 100 swings with nothing. If it works that way, I could swing 100 times and never have it proc and assume the chance is worse, you could swing 100 times and proc 25 times, doesn't mean it is closer to 25%. You are lucky or you aren't.



#17
KalGerion_Beast

KalGerion_Beast
  • Members
  • 1 370 messages

Yes, RNG is a factor, im not denying that.

 

But after extensive use RNG should show its true form, and after many thousands of swings I am willing to bet Sulevin has a noticeably higher proc chance than 2%.  



#18
DrKilledbyDeath

DrKilledbyDeath
  • Members
  • 1 222 messages

Yes, RNG is a factor, im not denying that.

 

But after extensive use RNG should show its true form, and after many thousands of swings I am willing to bet Sulevin has a noticeably higher proc chance than 2%.  

You just ignored what I said, if it is proc'ing all the time, you are lucky, it doesn't mean you have a higher proc rate. 2% chance doesn't mean it will happen 2 times out of every 100, it means each time it has a 2% chance. You could get lucky and have it proc every single swing, or never have it proc a single time, doesn't change the 2% chance.



#19
BraveLToaster

BraveLToaster
  • Members
  • 1 237 messages

Yes, but when a large number people notice it activating more than 2% of the time, it means it's probably higher than a 2% activation rate.

 

Yes, it's possible to get a million 2/100 checks in a row, but it's astronomically unlikely.



#20
KalGerion_Beast

KalGerion_Beast
  • Members
  • 1 370 messages

You just ignored what I said, if it is proc'ing all the time, you are lucky, it doesn't mean you have a higher proc rate. 2% chance doesn't mean it will happen 2 times out of every 100, it means each time it has a 2% chance. You could get lucky and have it proc every single swing, or never have it proc a single time, doesn't change the 2% chance.

No where is it confirmed to be 2%.  Its value is speculative currently, and I threw my number in the ring.  As BraveLToaster noted, it appears my estimates are not far from others.  Also, Law of Large numbers was what I was referencing.  RNG will always be RNG, but a 2% chance in the long run will look like a 2% chance, a 10% chance will look like a 10% chance, etc...



#21
NRieh

NRieh
  • Members
  • 2 921 messages

 

A handful of Staves grant extra Magic on Kill for 10 seconds:

Does this proc work correctly? Is there an icon that shows player when it does?

I've used both Soulfire and Spellburst, and I don't think I could notice any indications.



#22
KalGerion_Beast

KalGerion_Beast
  • Members
  • 1 370 messages

IIRC those are +20 magic on kill, right?  If so, that's a 10% damage boost.  Unlikely to get its own indicator and unless you are looking for it you probably wouldn't notice the difference.  



#23
NRieh

NRieh
  • Members
  • 2 921 messages

 

IIRC those are +20 magic on kill, right?

Yeah, supposed to be like that.

By the way, does that  +magic affect the barrier in any way? 



#24
JRandall0308

JRandall0308
  • Members
  • 1 695 messages

I submitted a bug report in the tech support forum regarding Sulevin Blade, because it is the only weapon without its percentage chance to activate listed.

 

Regarding weapons that give you a bonus on kill (e.g. +Magic), without some icon to indicate, it's difficult to know whether they're working or not. You could test this by carefully noting how much damage you're doing to a tough enemy before and after a kill on a weak enemy. But that's really tedious so I haven't done it.

 

1 point of Magic is +0.5% Attack and 1% Barrier (source), so +20 Magic is +10% Attack which should be noticeable in your damage output.



#25
haxaw

haxaw
  • Members
  • 303 messages

1 point of Magic is +0.5% Attack and 1% Barrier (source), so +20 Magic is +10% Attack which should be noticeable in your damage output.

 

It won't translate directly to a 10% increase in your total damage output, though. The +% Attack is added to other +% Attack and other stat-derived +% Attack numbers first, before being multiplied to your total damage dealt. This means the more +% Attack you already had, the less actual impact this additional +10% Attack is going to be. This diminishing return makes it even harder to test the gear in question.

 

I remember reading someone who had tested Staff of the Dynamo (20% more damage if not hit for 5 seconds), but I don't remember the details. The takeaway was that it worked up until you got hit, and then ceased to work completely afterwards for the remainder of the match. Not sure whether that 20% bonus was its own category that would actually boost total damage by 20%, or if it was considered just some part of an existing modifier and added to that. Not saying the +Magic on Kill works at all in the same way, but it seemed relevant enough to bring up.