MIDDLING MASSES (Levels 5 - 9)Assassin (5): I Was Never Here.
I must be terrible at this game. I don't even use that ability.
Also, i don't think an archer feels 'right' until I have long shot/archer's lance, opportunity knocks, and looked like it hurt. That is like level 11.
In my experience the Archer is good to go at level 3 with either leaping or long shot; you only need one for quite a while...
I personally believe the AW, Keeper, and Elementalist all need nerfs, but that's just me. You can just about solo routine at level 2 as long as the boss isn't DC.
Necromancer I'd actually stick in the 'late' column for passives. Yeah, its usable at level 8 but its effective at about 10. Either way on that one based entirely on how you play though.
Reaver isn't on your list but I'd put it as usable about level 4 and effective at level 8-10.
An enormous factor is equipment. An archer with a level 20+ bow can solo Routine from level 3, if not sooner.
Just my 2 cents.
Made some more updates. Great feedback!
I don't even use that ability.
You're missing out. I'd wager it's the glue that holds most Assassin builds together. It's a skill that single-handedly provides you survivability (dropping threat, which usually works), mobility (free to move through most enemy mobs or along their backlines), and damage (bonus damage out of stealth, as well as potential auto-crit upgrade). The beauty of the skill is that once you get rolling, the damage it generates helps feed itself in a virtually endless cycle of destruction and disappearance.
You can just about solo routine at level 2 as long as the boss isn't DC.
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An enormous factor is equipment. An archer with a level 20+ bow can solo Routine from level 3, if not sooner.
This list isn't really concerned with gear and soloing. The focus isn't on surviving or simply finishing a game, it's about achieving whatever goal your build is meant to achieve, or at least a sizable portion of it. Think ability points and skill trees more than difficulty or gear loadout.
AW "core" absolutely includes PotA.
The Lightsaber - while never great damage - does not synergise well with Fade Shield if you don't group mobs up.
I don't use PotA anymore, I never used it frequently enough so I swapped it out. I just played threatening at like level 5 and outdamaged the hell of a level 19 AW.
yeah I'm always tempted to just leave my legionnaire & templar alone once I start getting close to 20. first few levels you are so exposed seeing as most of the great stuff is down the ends of both trees. hunter also.
once I get there though, I end up convincing myself that my next class could do with the +1 somewhere.
^ AW is done for me around level 7 too. everything afterwards is just buffing survivability. basically that's 1 carry on threatening (i usually play bodyguard to our ranged and slap any melee that charges them with spirit blade)
at level 7 I go for:
chain lightning (easy full barrier, opening attack to draw all aggro)
fade step, upgraded (range closer, barrier charge when low on mana, free hits on blockers/shield users)
fade cloak, upgraded (stun/knockdown blockers, avoid stuns/knockdowns, drop huge damage on strong enemies)
PotA is nice but is situational on a neatly grouped mob and you end up having to drop one of the above for it. It's better if you want to play a supporting AW rather than a solo/one-man-army AW.
yeah I'm always tempted to just leave my legionnaire & templar alone once I start getting close to 20. first few levels you are so exposed seeing as most of the great stuff is down the ends of both trees. hunter also.
once I get there though, I end up convincing myself that my next class could do with the +1 somewhere.
^ AW is done for me around level 7 too. everything afterwards is just buffing survivability. basically that's 1 carry on threatening (i usually play bodyguard to our ranged and slap any melee that charges them with spirit blade)
at level 7 I go for:
chain lightning (easy full barrier, opening attack to draw all aggro)
fade step, upgraded (range closer, barrier charge when low on mana, free hits on blockers/shield users)
fade cloak, upgraded (stun/knockdown blockers, avoid stuns/knockdowns, drop huge damage on strong enemies)
PotA is nice but is situational on a neatly grouped mob and you end up having to drop one of the above for it. It's better if you want to play a supporting AW rather than a solo/one-man-army AW.
That is what I did, got rid of PotA for fade step and I run cloak and step. I've got the chain lightning damage ring too, lets you kill pretty easily at low levels.
Made some more updates. Great feedback!
You're missing out. I'd wager it's the glue that holds most Assassin builds together. It's a skill that single-handedly provides you survivability (dropping threat, which usually works), mobility (free to move through most enemy mobs or along their backlines), and damage (bonus damage out of stealth, as well as potential auto-crit upgrade). The beauty of the skill is that once you get rolling, the damage it generates helps feed itself in a virtually endless cycle of destruction and disappearance.
yeah agree here. my biggest issue with the assassin is that in perilous you often have enemies surviving with a sliver of health and so screwing up your kill chain. love her on threatening though and completely obliterating a whole archer line from behind before they get more than 1 or 2 shots off at the team.
yeah agree here. my biggest issue with the assassin is that in perilous you often have enemies surviving with a sliver of health and so screwing up your kill chain. love her on threatening though and completely obliterating a whole archer line from behind before they get more than 1 or 2 shots off at the team.
More than any other class, Assassin is gear dependent. Without the ability to quickly take out your current target and re-stealthing, you're a sitting duck. Once you can reliably spike down squishies quickly, though, she really shines.
Nobody has mentioned poor Alch yet, any ideas? And what are people thinking for their Eles? I've been rushing Barrier et al, which completes at level 7, but that's because I've been playing him as a support/CCer lately.
Nobody has mentioned poor Alch yet, any ideas?
I'm not a number cruncher... But she is certainly my favorite class to play.
With the build I use I'd say she really kicks in around lvl 14. She is viable much earlier, but it's around 14 when I start consistently coming in 1st or 2nd on the end game lineup.
You can choose from the Alchemy Ability Tree and the Cunning Ability Tree.
1. Starts with Stealth and Elemental Mines
2. Ambush
6. Flank Attack
7. Stealth upgrade Lost in the Shadows
8. Shadow Strike upgrade Quick Blade
9. Flank Attack upgrade Skirmisher
10. Bloodied Prey
11. I Was Never Here
12. Evasion
13. Disable
15. Easy to Miss
16. Sneak Attack
17. Dance of Death
18. Throw Everything
19. Unorthodox
20. Fighting Dirty
If you like blowing stuff up more, you could certainly move the items in the Alchemy Tree up... But I prefer to have more stamina available for building her up before I grab Throw Everything since it takes your entire stamina bar upon usage. Fighting Dirty gets saved for last since all it really does is increase sunder effects from the explosives with this particular build.
You could also forgo upgrading Elemental Mines and skip Fighting Dirty to Pick up Parry and Effortless Riposte. I just love blowing stuff up, so I skip these.
With a Lego, on top of Walking Fortress you want to have To The Death upgraded as well as Counterstrike, those are core skills in view. A Lego at level 10 is far from optimal, at least on Peri. It can be played with success, though you won't be facetanking Bosses until you get to a pretty high level.
Guest_Mortiel_*
You're missing out. I'd wager it's the glue that holds most Assassin builds together. It's a skill that single-handedly provides you survivability (dropping threat, which usually works), mobility (free to move through most enemy mobs or along their backlines), and damage (bonus damage out of stealth, as well as potential auto-crit upgrade). The beauty of the skill is that once you get rolling, the damage it generates helps feed itself in a virtually endless cycle of destruction and disappearance.
I never use it either. I've tried it, and found it to not really be necessary. I mean, I can see the use behind it, but I just can't justify wasting two points to get one passive that is marginally useful.
And all my Assassin build, albeit not using that passive, are all Perilous optimized. (Note that I did not use the term viable lol)
I'm not a number cruncher... But she is certainly my favorite class to play.
With the build I use I'd say she really kicks in around lvl 14. She is viable much earlier, but it's around 14 when I start consistently coming in 1st or 2nd on the end game lineup.
Thanks for the very detailed post! Judging from your build order, it looks like I Was Never Here is the final piece that is necessary functionally speaking. As such, I've put Alch down for 10, requiring Flank Attack, Shadow Strike w/ upgrades, and I Was Never Here. I figured the Stealth upgrade isn't necessary, but let me know if people disagree.
With a Lego, on top of Walking Fortress you want to have To The Death upgraded as well as Counterstrike, those are core skills in view. A Lego at level 10 is far from optimal, at least on Peri. It can be played with success, though you won't be facetanking Bosses until you get to a pretty high level.
That's always been my feeling. Legionnaire is actually a big part of why I made this post in the first place. I love the class, but haven't played him much lately because of the leveling process. I actually checked the skill trees and he needs to be 12 to get War Cry and Walking Fortress w/ upgrades, Bear Mauls the Wolves, and Flow of Battle. Continuing on, he would be 15 by the time he got To the Death w/ upgrade, or 16 if he goes for Counterstrike instead. Going for both would require him to be level 18. I'll give him a range of 12 - 18 for now.
And all my Assassin build, albeit not using that passive, are all Perilous optimized. (Note that I did not use the term viable lol)
lol. Careful, though, "optimized" is an even more dangerous word 
What's your preferred build, then? Can you outline the build order, core skills, and core level?
I adjusted Assassin a bit to get First Blood and Cull the Herd. For the majority of players who don't have top Assassin gear, I think those two make a huge difference. I remember desperately needing them before I was blessed.
Thanks for the very detailed post! Judging from your build order, it looks like I Was Never Here is the final piece that is necessary functionally speaking. As such, I've put Alch down for 10, requiring Flank Attack, Shadow Strike w/ upgrades, and I Was Never Here. I figured the Stealth upgrade isn't necessary, but let me know if people disagree.
The upgrade to stealth is pretty flexible as far as when you pick it up. You could certainly move it to a later spot in the build, but it's extra utility of being able to remove debuffs makes it a great skill to have. The side bonus of instant stealth is icing on that cake.
"I Was Never Here" is really nice to have in conjunction with Ambush as it gives you more time to hit enemies with increased armor penetration. Knife in the Shadows stacks on an instant crit from stealth... So being stealthed more increases your DPS. The Disable skill also procs a stackable debuff on your target on a critical hit. All three of these passives benefit from grabbing that last skill on the tree.
Guest_Mortiel_*
lol. Careful, though, "optimized" is an even more dangerous word
What's your preferred build, then? Can you outline the build order, core skills, and core level?
I adjusted Assassin a bit to get First Blood and Cull the Herd. For the majority of players who don't have top Assassin gear, I think those two make a huge difference. I remember desperately needing them before I was blessed.
Optimized is not the best word. Viable is worse though, because I see it as creating a false dichotomy. Everything is viable, but not everything is optimized. A build can be optimized for Perilous, according to my play-style, so I guess that's what lead me to choose that word.
I made a build guide for the Assassin a while back:
http://forum.bioware...sassin striker
With that said, I have at this point swapped Flank Attack for Twin Fangs and swapped a passive here or there. Although I Was Never Here is a bit more attractive without Flank Attack, I am still in Stealth almost all the time. Cull the Herd has been a must-have for me for a long time. I used to insist on Knife in the Shadows, but I quickly realized that it was only useful for newer players.
Aside, in my opinion this "core level" bit is silly. Some classes get their crutch skills faster than others, but every class will always operate best at level 20. All this "core level" talk leads into meta-building, which I do not support.
Also, I don't have an unlock order. I pick what looks prettiest when I level up. 
The upgrade to stealth is pretty flexible as far as when you pick it up. You could certainly move it to a later spot in the build, but it's extra utility of being able to remove debuffs makes it a great skill to have. The side bonus of instant stealth is icing on that cake.
Interesting, I'd never thought of the upgrade in terms of the purging abilities. I've always just spammed Stealth as soon as it cooled down. What are situations where you find yourself using it just to clear debuffs?
"I Was Never Here" is really nice to have in conjunction with Ambush as it gives you more time to hit enemies with increased armor penetration. Knife in the Shadows stacks on an instant crit from stealth... So being stealthed more increases your DPS. The Disable skill also procs a stackable debuff on your target on a critical hit. All three of these passives benefit from grabbing that last skill on the tree.
All fair points, and all things I tend to pick up, myself. But I don't quite see them as being central to the build; more like icing on the cake. Do other people see them as core?
Aside, in my opinion this "core level" bit is silly. Some classes get their crutch skills faster than others, but every class will always operate best at level 20.
For people like myself who rarely/never play level 20s, the "core level" concept is very relevant. It's a measure of how smooth the leveling experience is and how soon the build feels nearly complete. My explanation and motivation in my initial post were quite clear in that regard.
All this "core level" talk leads into meta-building, which I do not support.
As is your insistence on using leader instead of the "meta" terms supporter and controller, where you throw your support is a choice you are free to make. Many others like myself are more inclined to consider context and the current state of affairs, which is what "core level" and prevalence-awareness are about.
Guest_Mortiel_*
As is your insistence on using leader instead of the "meta" terms supporter and controller, where you throw your support is a choice you are free to make. Many others like myself are more inclined to consider context and the current state of affairs, which is what "core level" and prevalence-awareness are about.
Exactly. As I said, it was just my opinion. Just like I say about my builds, there is no "best" terminology or "best" way to play a video game. Some people are most data-driven. Big numbers, high stats, and optimization. Some people are seen as more flippant, and just like killing things and having mindless fun.
And then there is me. I have fun making the game more obnoxious for everyone else. People call it trolling, but I call it Creative Vexation Coercion. 
Word of advice: Don't eat the ham. I am pretty certain that someone laced it with hallucinogens. Ok, yes, that someone was me.
what are people thinking for their Eles? I've been rushing Barrier et al, which completes at level 7, but that's because I've been playing him as a support/CCer lately.
Egads no! CC / Aggro Control beats barrier any day of week. I can just about solo perilous on firewall alone. If I do not finish, I will gain so much exp so quickly, it'll beat going to lower difficulties. See my builds below for core ele build. WG, FW, FM, FSm, Death Siphon by 8-9.+
If you ever wear the ring of firewall, you'll have non-stop firewall available. All enemies CC'ed / FM'ed = GG perilous.
Interesting, I'd never thought of the upgrade in terms of the purging abilities. I've always just spammed Stealth as soon as it cooled down. What are situations where you find yourself using it just to clear debuffs?
All fair points, and all things I tend to pick up, myself. But I don't quite see them as being central to the build; more like icing on the cake. Do other people see them as core?
On the first point: Mainly it's nice to be able to get rid of effects like burning quickly and it is very useful as a threat purge. Since stealth also increases your movement speed I also tend to use it as a utility to progress though the areas quicker. In the group I usually play with, a treasure room will sometimes be left until after the final room of an area is cleared. They can deal with any guardians that may spawn without me and I'll just run to the exit and energize the teleporter.
On the second: All four of these passive's work together to increase DPS in one fashion or another... And I'm a HUGE fan of passive abilities. Not to mention, there aren't any other passives that are going to help this build available with the primary skills selected, anyway.
Also, I don't have an unlock order. I pick what looks prettiest when I level up.
I promoted my Necro recently, and thought "let's not get walking bomb or Death Syphon, but go down the other tree first", bad mistake... Yeah it's still "viable" on Threatening, but it feels like much harder work than using "crutch" skills.
But i do agree in trying out stuff, until you see what you like and don't - irrespective of what others tell you is the best build, and your build is bad.
This thread is kinda useful if one is trying to assess opinions on what others feel is the most viable low level characters: i don't play rogues much, but really should get some cunning promotions done. So i can see out of the four rogues, which would be most enjoyable, and quickest to get effective, for speed promoting.
I much rather get hidden blades and deathblow quickly then beelining "I was never there". You can very easily wreck perilous with only one stealth every 30 seconds, but will not be very useful without getting some of your damage abilites quickly (you get sneak attack on the way to death blow, and it should take care of any crit % issues)
Egads no! CC / Aggro Control beats barrier any day of week. I can just about solo perilous on firewall alone. If I do not finish, I will gain so much exp so quickly, it'll beat going to lower difficulties. See my builds below for core ele build. WG, FW, FM, FSm, Death Siphon by 8-9.+
We have fundamentally different views on this, which we've discussed. I overwhelmingly PuG (and don't mind sticking it out with mediocre/beginning players), which is a key difference in our experiences. Rushing Barrier means I can nearly guarantee a PuG Perilous clear. But that's the beauty of listing level ranges, to account for different approaches and builds. I'll add in the level 8 - 9 spec for Fire Wall, Fire Mine, Firestorm, and Death Siphon, especially since this is a very prevalent build.
On the first point: Mainly it's nice to be able to get rid of effects like burning quickly and it is very useful as a threat purge. Since stealth also increases your movement speed I also tend to use it as a utility to progress though the areas quicker. In the group I usually play with, a treasure room will sometimes be left until after the final room of an area is cleared. They can deal with any guardians that may spawn without me and I'll just run to the exit and energize the teleporter.
That's interesting. I actually feel better letting Assassin's solo treasure rooms because they have the massive Stealth-Hidden Blades spike, as well as just Stealthing if the going gets tough.
I much rather get hidden blades and deathblow quickly then beelining "I was never there". You can very easily wreck perilous with only one stealth every 30 seconds, but will not be very useful without getting some of your damage abilites quickly (you get sneak attack on the way to death blow, and it should take care of any crit % issues)
That makes sense. The makes it Level 10 by the time you get both skills and their upgrades? Are you able to keep up the onslaught without Dance of Death?
Also , I'm guessing people don't like blizzard because of how long it takes to freeze, but cast that thing around an aggro'd tank and wait about 7-10 seconds, maybe less, and you will see why it's great cc, not to mention, with the blizzard ring, the dps becomes just.... Ugh. Although I'll admit it is pretty mediocre without the ring. Not bad, but mediocre. But it will out dps walking bomb builds by a margin regardless if you're using the build correctly and fade stepping the enemies In the blizzard.
I've only briefly tried Blizzard for a few incarnations before throwing it by the wayside. The time it took to actually freeze things just felt way too long, and the mana cost/upkeep was very high. The 50% damage reduction was great, though it worked as often as it didn't. Does the Blizzard ring add 30%? From what I remember, Blizzard only deals like 75% per second without the upgrade, maybe double that once you upgrade it. Still seems quite underwhelming, even if you include 30% bonus. My only hesitation with having a Blizzard-focused build is the significant amount of disdain I've seen many show towards it. What do other people think about Blizzard-core? Is this something I should also give another chance?
But it will out dps walking bomb
wait about 7-10 seconds,
No, no it won't. Everything with WB would've died at second 4. Everything not WB detonated would've died by second 6. I have video proof.
If anything, the FS / Blizzard CC build is overrated and worshipped, yet performs terribly when time is a factor.
We have fundamentally different views
Correct. Time is a consideration in mine, where I prioritize CC and DPS, where absolute completion is prioritized over completions / time in yours. Teammates stick around, and pugs don't in my view.
Then again, I've speed-run through pugs as well using my builds. I just play very very aggressively. Never taking damage while dishing damage >> Barrier.
Almost done with the list, but would still like to hear more thoughts on people's Necro and Alchemist builds.
As a side note, it's curious to see how the beginner classes are spread out. Keeper and Archer are the earliest, while Legionnaire is all the way at the bottom.
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