382 réponses à ce sujet

[goishen]

I didn't mind with either.  With the movies, they came out so long before I had the ability to go back and watch them and scrutinize them that, to me, it just wasn't worth it.  They'll always have a special place for me. 

 

As for the games, I expected Ashley and Kaiden to be wearing armor...  As they are soldiers (not the class) in the Alliance.  I expected Miranda and Jacob not to be wearing armor because they were...   Not in the Alliance.  Now, you can make a point that they needed some protective gear, and I guess that I'm okay with that.  Just give us the ability to paint these characters.  

 

EDIT :  Oh, and BTW, I never said that one and two were my favorite ME games.

[StealthGamer92]

I didn't mind with either.  With the movies, they came out so long before I had the ability to go back and watch them and scrutinize them that, to me, it just wasn't worth it.  They'll always have a special place for me. 

 

As for the games, I expected Ashley and Kaiden to be wearing armor...  As they are soldiers (not the class) in the Alliance.  I expected Miranda and Jacob not to be wearing armor because they were...   Not in the Alliance.  Now, you can make a point that they needed some protective gear, and I guess that I'm okay with that.  Just give us the ability to paint these characters. 

 

Well Mirand can get away with that explanation. Jacob, though, was former Alliance now with Cerberus(technicaly still millitaristic even though AWOL) and is there specically because he is a fighter/warior/soldier(take your pick).

[goishen]

Well Mirand can get away with that explanation. Jacob, though, was former Alliance now with Cerberus(technicaly still millitaristic even though AWOL) and is there specically because he is a fighter/warior/soldier(take your pick).

 

 

Ehhh, he never got into how he was discharged (or even if he was discharged) from the Alliance.   Plus, at the end of that...   They don't let you walk away with your M-16 and body armor.  Especially not if you're AWOL.

[StealthGamer92]

Ehhh, he never got into how he was discharged (or even if he was discharged) from the Alliance.   Plus, at the end of that...   They don't let you walk away with your M-16 and body armor.  Especially not if you're AWOL.

Point was more that Cerberus should have combat gear and expect their soldiers to use it.

[Iakus]

Point was more that Cerberus should have combat gear and expect their soldiers to use it.

Well it's not like we ever see Cerberus troops using armo...

 

Oh wait 

[StealthGamer92]

Well it's not like we ever see Cerberus troops using armo...

 

Oh wait 

 

I'm not sure wether or not you're mocking me, but it proves my point. Every troop EXCEPT Jacobs has armor in Cerberus.

[Mcfly616]

They won't change anything regarding the sexualized sequels for the remastered edition. Though, hopefully they start taking themselves and the characters aesthetic a little more seriously with the next installment.

[Iakus]

I'm not sure wether or not you're mocking me, but it proves my point. Every troop EXCEPT Jacobs has armor in Cerberus.

 

I was not, in fact mocking you.

 

I was pretending to disagree to emphasize your point 

[Hans Olo]

EDIT :  Oh, and BTW, I never said that one and two were my favorite ME games.

 

I did not mean to imply that you liked them best, I meant that between those two games a massively effective aesthetic shift occured, from armour -whether or not it follows the curves of the body or not it was still armour and they had full helmets- to the merest sliver of armour, basically just covering up what needed to be covered up to get a 12+ (or something) rating. 

 

Which is not so much sloppy as it is disrespectful and crude. I guess it was all about the benjamins.. 

 

The story is still awesome, but just like you do not see picture books of Jesus and his apostles needlessly sexy and half naked to attract "the young" it did not have to be used here.

[StealthGamer92]

I was not, in fact mocking you.

 

I was pretending to disagree to emphasize your point 

 

Cool.

[Arppis]

Perhaps they could play it safer for the default outfits and relegate the "sexier" ones to alternate outfits (for female and male characters!)? This way one can enjoy what they please but the normal choice is a bit safer.

This, you are the man now dawg!

[Hans Olo]

Perhaps they could play it safer for the default outfits and relegate the "sexier" ones to alternate outfits (for female and male characters!)? This way one can enjoy what they please but the normal choice is a bit safer.

 

That would work, make at least one functional (badass) armour for each character, with an actual helmet, gloves, no skin showing when they go into toxic/vacuum/*edit* bullet/fiery/frosty??? environments.

 

The other armours can be thong bikinis and mankinis as far as I am concerned.. if people want to enjoy jiggling boobs and manpackages they can have it.

 

Customizable armour when it comes to colours might be nice, someone said that before but I forgot who. The ability to give your own and possibly your teammates' armour another (camo) colour. Perhaps not too many choices for the teammates to keep the available ones "flavoury"?

[goishen]

My point was that you've got one primer and one detonator, if you're going for a biotic/tech explosion, and the ability to tell them apart.  It gives a little bit of their own flavor to the character, also.

 

Like ME1, but with customizable options rather than "This armor is better than this armor, but looks far worse."

[sim-ran]

could you imagine if Jack had a standard Alliance Trooper combat armor, but it was decked out with spikes, and...uh...random metal bits...and such beautifully painted on phrases as '**** the Police' and various tattoo-esque designs? I'd dig it.

That sounds awesome!

Secondly I know it's already been said (hell this topic has been covered so many times that EVERYTHING has been said! ) but pro-sexy-ists please understand that the argument isn't about being prudish, it's about realism. The kind of realism that we had in ME1 and went out the window in ME2 with Miranda and Jacob's sexy catsuits.

I can accept the idea of a rogue in DA wearing leather to complement their dexterity style, even if it seems a little silly. But going onto a planet with no atmosphere in a catsuit and breather mask is ludicrous.

Now you may not mind the ludicrous but surely you can understand why others would. And it would be so easy to cater to both audiences. They already have the concept of multiple outfits you can switch through at the start of missions. Just add a fully sealed one for those that don't have one.

I love Jack's tattoos and would probably opt for that look when taking her on Illium, just not for zero-atmosphere planets...

[Liveshiptrader]

Well Mirand can get away with that explanation. Jacob, though, was former Alliance now with Cerberus(technicaly still millitaristic even though AWOL) and is there specically because he is a fighter/warior/soldier(take your pick).

 

Jacob was a Biotic, Biotics almost seem to function like computer game wizards, barriers (magical shields) in place of heavier armour.

 

Nearly all the Biotic party members have light or no armour.

[StealthGamer92]

Jacob was a Biotic, Biotics almost seem to function like computer game wizards, barriers (magical shields) in place of heavier armour.

 

Nearly all the Biotic party members have light or no armour.

 

He's more like a Vangaurd so he should have a light or medium armour since the Vangaurd isn't meant to be a support class like adept. Not just because thats how ME1 worked but because it's how militant organizations work in general from the three merc PMC's to real militaries throughout all 3 games.

[Matthias King]

Jacob was a Biotic, Biotics almost seem to function like computer game wizards, barriers (magical shields) in place of heavier armour.

 

Nearly all the Biotic party members have light or no armour.

 

I'll point out that in ME1, biotics still wore armor.  Granted, it was lighter duty armor, presumably to help mitigate exhaustion and over-exertion, but they still wore it, not only for its ballistic protection, but for the other benefits it provided.  They also wore helmets whenever necessary, either in a firefight or in a toxic or harsh environment.

 

Barriers don't protect you from toxic environments or places like Luna with no atmosphere.

 

Also, ME1 established a very reasoned system of layered protection via barriers, shileds, armor, and the under-armor, and it made good logical sense.

 

And as an added point, I'm guessing that every biotic in the Alliance is expected to wear armor.  They don't get a pass, nor should they.  There's a reason why nearly everyone in the known galaxy wears a hardsuit, biotic or not.

 

I get your analogy, and I'm not saying you're wrong.  That's probably what was in their heads when they decided to abandon armor in favor of cheap T&A and beefcake.  The problem is that a military space shooter and sword & sorcery RPGs aren't directly relatable.  You can't just make them wizards in space, even if that's essentially what they equate to from a purely gameplay perspective.

 

Gameplay aside, nothing else about them is relatable, and therefore Bioware should stop trying to use the rules of Dragon Age and Baldur's Gate to determine how things work in a futuristic military sci-fi environment.  Not everything, or even most things translate at a 1:1 ratio.
 

[Gothfather]

I have to disagree with this whole premise for a remaster. Imagine if you bought a remaster of the game and they CUT content out that you had no problem with? I'd be pretty pissed if they cut out content from Origins because of X.

 

There should be no dramatic changes to the content of a remaster ME trilogy. This includes the art of the game.

 

All these issues should be addressed for what people want from MENext. By all means say, "Please do X in MENext." but leave past games alone. I don't want someone else's moral code dictating what should be changed for past games, make your argument for future content. Also we shouldn't whiewash past mistakes let them stand as a milestone of where we have been and where we need to go. If we change objects of art and media because we find them objectionable we start getting into the realm of 1984 where parts of the past are removed if its not "approved" by the state. We need to let our history including gaming history be what it actually was to provide context for future debate on where the industry needs to grow and where its doing the right thing. If we always retroactively change bits we don't like we lose context.

[Matthias King]

I was never really arguing in favor of retroactively changing the games for the remaster, as much as I'd personally like to see those changes made.  I was only getting in on the discussion of armor and logic vs. needless skin and catsuits.

[StealthGamer92]

Me too. I hadn't even noticed this was about change the trilogy until just now. haha

 

Like others have said, I don't think they'd change the old ME games other than taxtures and maybe a few bug fix's.

[Degs29]

/Thread.

 

This has already been discussed. Can we just drop it?

 

...10 pages later...

 

Guess not!

 

Part of Miranda's character was ideal genetics, and hence sex appeal plays a role there.  Jack has a "F--- it" attitude and so her immodest dress also makes sense.  The only squadmate that it's questionable on is Samara...but even that can be justified by saying it's part of her Matriarchal power.  Sex appeal is part of what makes a woman a woman.  It doesn't have to be a large part, but denying it is closing your eyes to the world for the sake of your own values.  When I look at Miranda, I don't just see a butt crack the size of the Grand Canyon; I see a strong, independent woman.  When I look at Jack, I don't just see the most revealing clothing made by humankind; I see a tortured soul speaking out.  When I look at Samara, I don't just see massive cleavage; I see a leader in justice I wouldn't want to cross if you forced me to it at gunpoint! 

 

I think it's sad people seem to focus so much on this physical aspect of a character, and would hope they don't do so in real life.  I mean if you see a woman dressed somewhat provocatively on the street, do you automatically assume she's a wanton whose only value is in her appearance? 

 

I think maybe some people need to look in a mirror and understand their motives better.

 

The other side of this argument is the immersion factor:  what is realistic?  Games (and often movies) often go for what's cinematic rather than what makes sense.  So I agree that that side of the argument has merit.  But unless it's extreme, I really don't care much about that level of immersion.

[Display Name Owner]

^ If I saw a woman dressed like Miranada walking down the street, and then moved to assume the same angle of vision the camera does at certain times, she would most likely slap me and alert the authorities. 

What's my point? ...I forget.

 

Anyway, the immersion factor you mentioned is the issue, and not to have a go at you, but that's been restated about two dozen times ITT. As far as I can tell (haven't read every single page) there's not one single prude in here saying down with sexuality. There's just a time and a place, sometimes it works, sometimes it feels shoehorned.

[Iakus]

...10 pages later...

 

Guess not!

 

Part of Miranda's character was ideal genetics, and hence sex appeal plays a role there.  Jack has a "F--- it" attitude and so her immodest dress also makes sense.  The only squadmate that it's questionable on is Samara...but even that can be justified by saying it's part of her Matriarchal power.  Sex appeal is part of what makes a woman a woman.  It doesn't have to be a large part, but denying it is closing your eyes to the world for the sake of your own values.  When I look at Miranda, I don't just see a butt crack the size of the Grand Canyon; I see a strong, independent woman.  When I look at Jack, I don't just see the most revealing clothing made by humankind; I see a tortured soul speaking out.  When I look at Samara, I don't just see massive cleavage; I see a leader in justice I wouldn't want to cross if you forced me to it at gunpoint! 

 

Attitude doesn't make one bulletproof.

 

I look at Miranda, Jack, and Samara, I see "sex symbol with a gun"

[MattFini]

The female gamers I know all seem to like the "girly" aspects of certain armors and what not, especially when it comes to Mass Effect over, say, DA:I. 

 

Regarding the other characters, I think Miranda and Jack's designs are perfect for them. Maybe Samara's plunging v-cut is excessive and unnecessary, though I really hope BioWare doesn't kowtow to the PC police when it comes to all character design choices.

 

There's probably a happier balance to strike than the ME sequels found, yes, but I'd hate to think that BioWare would never create another Jack or Miranda out of fear over HOW some would react to them.  

 

As for removing outfits out of a remastered edition? LOL. No. 

[Iakus]

The female gamers I know all seem to like the "girly" aspects of certain armors and what not, especially when it comes to Mass Effect over, say, DA:I. 

 

Regarding the other characters, I think Miranda and Jack's designs are perfect for them. Maybe Samara's plunging v-cut is excessive and unnecessary, though I really hope BioWare doesn't kowtow to the PC police when it comes to all character design choices.

 

There's probably a happier balance to strike than the ME sequels found, yes, but I'd hate to think that BioWare would never create another Jack or Miranda out of fear over HOW some would react to them.  

 

As for removing outfits out of a remastered edition? LOL. No. 

I wonder if Cassandra, Sera, and Vivienne's outfits "kowtow to the PC police"?