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[Lulupab]

If Tevinter is going to have a "last hope" its Dorian not Calpernia. "I joined the person who wants to destroy the world because I was a slave" simply doesn't appeal to me. Calpernia actually damages Tevinter. If you have Calpernia, it means you sided with Templars and missed many conversations with Dorian, and in those conversations Dorian reveals that Tevinter is not really different than Orlais and the grand game is played. Instead of poisons and daggers, people are killed with magic and Orlais treats the poor as bad as Tevinter treats slaves.

 

Now you miss all that and get Calpernia, a "good guy" from Tevinter who joined Corypheus because she suffered as slave? Selfish much? She is like Fenris gone wrong, REALLY wrong.

 

I feel the same about samson as well as he exists to be opposite of Calpernia and show "true face of chantry".

 

Both of them fail spectacularly.

 

DA:I doesn't have a good villain period.

[Master Warder Z_]

Yet, that never did stop people from pitching a tent for Gaspard.

... Speak of the devil.

*shrugs*

Gaspard rules a different Empire with different politics.

One's I find personally agreeable in the DA universe.

That's me personally, so its not that she's militant expansionist, its because she's Tevinter.

[The Baconer]

*shrugs*

Gaspard rules a different Empire with different politics.

 

Superficially, I suppose.

[Master Warder Z_]

Superficially, I suppose.

Orlais isn't ruled by mages o...o

[Dai Grepher]

If there is no inconsistency between the different sources - and I see none in the information about Calpernia - I see no reason to not take it at face value.

 

I agree, but there are inconsistencies in this case. The game itself shows she only led a specific segment of the Venatori forces. Other generals led other groups, and even after Calpernia quit, some of those generals still exist. So she didn't lead the whole group till the end as WoT2 claims.

 

Also, the WoT2 texts, based on what you've written of them so far, seem to contradict even each other. It states Calpernia led the Venatori, yet she was second only to Corypheus. Well, if she's second, then how can she be the leader? Don't forget, the Venatori followed the Elder One, which means not Calpernia.
 

[Master Warder Z_]

She led the Venatori as a General and Cory was the overall commander of all his forces period, Calpernia was merely the highest general of the Venatori.

[Ieldra]

I agree, but there are inconsistencies in this case. The game itself shows she only led a specific segment of the Venatori forces. Other generals led other groups, and even after Calpernia quit, some of those generals still exist. So she didn't lead the whole group till the end as WoT2 claims.
 
Also, the WoT2 texts, based on what you've written of them so far, seem to contradict even each other. It states Calpernia led the Venatori, yet she was second only to Corypheus. Well, if she's second, then how can she be the leader? Don't forget, the Venatori followed the Elder One, which means not Calpernia.

Nope. The game indicates rather clearly she's Corypheus' second-in-command if you ally with the templars, just as Samson is if you ally with the mages. The quest you get to uncover their secrets, that they're the final antagonists you need to defeat before you go after Corypheus, the setup is *very* clear, and to say anything else is sophistry. As is your second paragraph btw.. Ever heard of a chain of command?

[Master Warder Z_]

I'd suspect the Venatori chain of command is as follows.

Cory: Commander and Chief

Cal: High General

Erimond: General

Servis: Regional Commander

Gordian: Regional Commander

Alexius: Associate

Duhaime: Associate

[Dai Grepher]

Nope. The game indicates rather clearly she's Corypheus' second-in-command if you ally with the templars, just as Samson is if you ally with the mages. The quest you get to uncover their secrets, that they're the final antagonists you need to defeat before you go after Corypheus, the setup is *very* clear, and to say anything else is sophistry. As is your second paragraph btw.. Ever heard of a chain of command?

 

Yeah, second in command means she doesn't lead the Venatori. She is a leader of some of them, and Cory leads them all, including her.

 

Your comment about their quests and battles has no relevance.

[Master Warder Z_]

Yeah, second in command means she doesn't lead the Venatori.

Uh yeah it does.

If she answers only to the boss, the entire organization answers to her because she only answers to Cory.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

If Tevinter is going to have a "last hope" its Dorian not Calpernia.

 

No, Dorian does not have the stones to bring any meaningful changes to his homeland. At least Calpurnia tried something.

 

Calpurnia, or Feynriel. Those are the options. Not Mr. "Oh, I see something I do not agree with -- solution: run away!!"

[Lulupab]

No, Dorian does not have the stones to bring any meaningful changes to his homeland. At least Calpurnia tried something.

 

Calpernia, or Feynriel. Those are the options. Not Mr. "Oh, I see something I do not agree with -- solution: run away!!"

 

He is an Altus and Magister-in-waiting. All he has to do for being a Magister is wanting to become one. From there he can change Tevinter or at least try. I don't see how he is behind a former slave.

 

And enough has happened to provide material for change. 

 

I already told my feelings about Calpernia on the post you quoted from. She failed Tevinter the moment she followed Corypheus.

[Uccio]

The only problem with Dorian is that he allied himself with southern chantry organization and next divine. There is no magisters seat waiting for him, only hangman's noose. Neither Calpernia nor Dorian are any 'hope' for Tevinter.

[Lulupab]

I don't think politics are that simple. He also knows everything to be known about this new Inquisition and new system of south after the election of the divine.

 

I'm not saying he is perfect, he isn't, but he is much better than Calpernia and I wouldn't be surprised if Bioware used him since he is already a fan favorite and cannot die, therefore can appear in future games.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 Yeah, I think the Magister ship has sailed for Dorian. The word "pariah" is used to describe him -- social outcast.

 

If he were smart he would have bit the bullet and used his position to do some good, IMO, but alas.

 

In truth, I feel like both of David Gaider's characters in this episode (Dorian and Cassandra) were incredibly... safe. It's like he was scarred by the hate for Fenris and had to make his next couple characters so easy to get along with. I like Dorian well enough, but he did not really show me that he is meant to have influence above his station, even if the writers do have big things planned for him.

[Uccio]

I don't think politics are that simple. He also knows everything to be known about this new Inquisition and new system of south after the election of the divine.

 

I'm not saying he is perfect, he isn't, but he is much better than Calpernia and I wouldn't be surprised if Bioware used him since he is already a fan favorite and cannot die, therefore can appear in future games.

 

Like I said previously, religion is serious business. Unless the new southern chantry bows before the Imperial chantry then I see no possibility to reconcile. Plot armor is nice but if we go along with the set lore about the war between the churches then Dorian is as good as dead if he returns.

And so is Calpernia, a runaway slave who joined forces with a darkspawn to overthrow the current regime in Tevinter.

 

 Yeah, I think the Magister ship has sailed for Dorian. The word "pariah" is used to describe him -- social outcast.

 

Yep, his time has passed. Better to learn to like living in south.

[Ieldra]

Like I said previously, religion is serious business. Unless the new southern chantry bows before the Imperial chantry then I see no possibility to reconcile. Plot armor is nice but if we go along with the set lore about the war between the churches then Dorian is as good as dead if he returns.
And so is Calpernia, a runaway slave who joined forces with a darkspawn to overthrow the current regime in Tevinter.

You appear to have a rather static picture of the world in your mind. I could mention several successful revolutions in real history that started by an "outcast" returning and shaking things up, and the people in power did not manage to contain them. Of course the magisterium isn't goint to like either of them. That is irrelevant. Such things haven't stopped people before, you know? No plot armor is needed, just a plausible setup.

As for religion, eventual co-existence of two sides of a schism isn't exactly unheard-of either.

[Dai Grepher]

I don't think politics are that simple. He also knows everything to be known about this new Inquisition and new system of south after the election of the divine.

 

I'm not saying he is perfect, he isn't, but he is much better than Calpernia and I wouldn't be surprised if Bioware used him since he is already a fan favorite and cannot die, therefore can appear in future games.

 

Dying isn't what makes someone less likely to appear again. It's multiple endings that cause this, because it's too much for BioWare to account for. So far, Dorian could be rejected outright, accepted but later left, stayed till the end but left, stayed till the end and stayed longer, and he may have either reconciled with his father, not, or perhaps parted with him on worse terms. He also could have been in the main battle or not. Had... something... with Iron Bull or not. So it's a question of if BioWare can account for all these things.

 

This is what makes Calpernia much more likely to return. She either becomes Cory's second or she doesn't, or she's helped by the Inquisitor or she's not.
 

[Lulupab]

Dying isn't what makes someone less likely to appear again. It's multiple endings that cause this, because it's too much for BioWare to account for. So far, Dorian could be rejected outright, accepted but later left, stayed till the end but left, stayed till the end and stayed longer, and he may have either reconciled with his father, not, or perhaps parted with him on worse terms. He also could have been in the main battle or not. Had... something... with Iron Bull or not. So it's a question of if BioWare can account for all these things.
 
This is what makes Calpernia much more likely to return. She either becomes Cory's second or she doesn't, or she's helped by the Inquisitor or she's not.

This hasn't been the case so far, all characters who could die were rendered irrelevant, or their death was discounted such as Leliana.

 

Calpernia can die, as such she can never be an important character in future games, its too much effort to have two majorly different arcs.

[The Baconer]

Calpernia can die

 

No body = no death confirmation.

[Lulupab]

No body = no death confirmation.

 

Ugh, don't remind me.

 

As I said unless they discount her death, she won't appear if dead. OR they could pull an Anders. But I really hope Bioware will not use those anymore. One time is enough.

[The Baconer]

Ugh, don't remind me.

 

As I said unless they discount her death, she won't appear if dead. OR they could pull an Anders. But I really hope Bioware will not use those anymore. One time is enough.

 

Even in the Keep you can't mark her as dead, only that you fought her.

 

That alone is as good a confirmation as any that she lives either way.

[Ieldra]

That alone is as good a confirmation as any that she lives either way.

Not quite. It means that the DA team can declare her either alive or dead without running into inconsistencies. One does hope it'll be the former.

[Lulupab]

What happens to her if you side with mages anyhow?

[The Baconer]

Not quite. It means that the DA team can declare her either alive or dead without running into inconsistencies. One does hope it'll be the former.

 

I guess, but as far as I'm concerned, if you don't get a "skeleton fresco" on the Keep, you ain't dead.