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The Last Hope of Tevinter - Calpernia fan and discussion thread


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#551
Master Warder Z_

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No body = no death confirmation.


Heh

Not exactly the case.

Snipers hardly ever confirm kills due to them being in places...you'd rather not go after shooting someone.

But that doesn't change that you just fired a hunk of metal going roughly the speed of sound into their torso.

#552
Jedi Master of Orion

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I guess, but as far as I'm concerned, if you don't get a "skeleton fresco" on the Keep, you ain't dead.

 

The little girl Amalia from The Stone Prisoner doesn't have a skeleton image if she is killed. Neither does Connor or Isolde for that matter.



#553
Uccio

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You appear to have a rather static picture of the world in your mind. I could mention several successful revolutions in real history that started by an "outcast" returning and shaking things up, and the people in power did not manage to contain them. Of course the magisterium isn't goint to like either of them. That is irrelevant. Such things haven't stopped people before, you know? No plot armor is needed, just a plausible setup.

As for religion, eventual co-existence of two sides of a schism isn't exactly unheard-of either.

 

As a amateur historian I think I do have a small understanding of the world and it´s history. But please, if you have any comparison from the real history with people having similar backgrounds please let me know. Modern times not included. 

 

The co-existence between religions is one thing, having one high member of the other jump ship and then return is something different.



#554
The Baconer

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Heh

Not exactly the case.

Snipers hardly ever confirm kills due to them being in places...you'd rather not go after shooting someone.

But that doesn't change that you just fired a hunk of metal going roughly the speed of sound into their torso.


We're talking about death tropes in fiction, and then you just stumble in here talking about snipers and ****. Sober up, mate.
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#555
Master Warder Z_

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We're talking about death tropes in fiction, and then you just stumble in here talking about snipers and ****. Sober up, mate.


Eh...

All I'm saying is that a corpse ain't required to verify someone's death.

How far was that fall? How badly injured was she before? Does she even have enough remaining mana to cast enough magic to light a candle?

All of those factors when applied to this situation point to one conclusion.

That ****** is dead.

#556
The Baconer

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All I'm saying is that a corpse ain't required to verify someone's death.

 

In fiction? Given the context? Yes it is. In many cases, an actual corpse doesn't verify it.

 

 

How far was that fall? How badly injured was she before? Does she even have enough remaining mana to cast enough magic to light a candle?

 

None of this applies at all, and you know that. She fell off a cliff, with the supposed impact happening out of frame. This is, literally, the furthest you can get from an unambiguous, confirmed death. This the progenitor of "No One Could Have Survived That", which is essentially what you're trying to say right now.


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#557
teh DRUMPf!!

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 ^ But, so long as we are bringing non-fiction into it, there are cases of people falling off of farther heights and surviving.

 

Couple the ambiguity of her "suicide" with the vague nature of her fate in the keep and, well, the door is open for BW to bring her back.

 

You appear to have a rather static picture of the world in your mind. I could mention several successful revolutions in real history that started by an "outcast" returning and shaking things up, and the people in power did not manage to contain them. Of course the magisterium isn't goint to like either of them. That is irrelevant. Such things haven't stopped people before, you know? No plot armor is needed, just a plausible setup.

As for religion, eventual co-existence of two sides of a schism isn't exactly unheard-of either.

 

For my part, I can definitely see him return to Tevinter. I fully expect it, even.

 

I just do not think he will be able to reclaim his status right away when he does get there.

 

And, more importantly, I think he needs to grow a pair. Dorian is a wuss, IMO.


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#558
Dai Grepher

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This hasn't been the case so far, all characters who could die were rendered irrelevant, or their death was discounted such as Leliana.

 

Calpernia can die, as such she can never be an important character in future games, its too much effort to have two majorly different arcs.

 

Connor. Nathaniel. Zevran. Alistair. Loghain. That's my point. The possibility of them dying does not automatically discount them from returning. It's having too many variables that makes them less likely to return.

 

Calpernia could easily survive in all cases. But even if she were to die in one path, that doesn't mean BioWare can't use her for a future storyline but also have a replacement ready for those who chose the path with her death.
 



#559
Dai Grepher

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What happens to her if you side with mages anyhow?

 

According to someone else here, they found a note addressed to her about finding artifacts in the Western Approach or the Hissing Wastes. So that's probably what she does. Searches for artifacts and buys slaves to free them.



#560
Master Warder Z_

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Connor. Nathaniel. Zevran. Alistair. Loghain


All of them stay dead, if killed.

#561
Ieldra

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Connor. Nathaniel. Zevran. Alistair. Loghain. That's my point. The possibility of them dying does not automatically discount them from returning. It's having too many variables that makes them less likely to return.

 

Calpernia could easily survive in all cases. But even if she were to die in one path, that doesn't mean BioWare can't use her for a future storyline but also have a replacement ready for those who chose the path with her death.

I don't think we'll see a replacement. Her death was never confirmed - we haven't seen her die and we haven't seen her corpse - so Bioware can use her in any future setup. Why would they use a fork if they don't need one? That'd just double the resources expended without necessity.  



#562
Dai Grepher

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:mellow:

 

That was in reply to the possibility that she definately died. My point was that possibly dying is not what prevents a character from being featured in a sequel. What prevents it is having too many variables.

 

I don't think Calpernia died at all. Just saying, IF she did, that still doesn't mean she won't be featured in a sequel. Like Connor. He really can die, yet he was in Inquisition.



#563
JadeDragon

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She fell off a cliff and we never seen her hit the floor. We never seen her actually die. Its not like we stabbed her and she was lying in a pool of her own blood. She has two outcomes neither of which show anything close to a confirmed kill. So not only do I think she will return but nobody should get mad if she does and claim they killed her when in reality it was a dramatic retreat. 



#564
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Sherlock Holmes's body was never found in that chasm in Austria in the final problem and yet despite it being off screen he died.

That's a main character in a literary series about him and he died offscreen, I'd argue no body being presented isn't a insurmountable issue.

#565
Lulupab

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That's irrelevant. Calpernia "died" in a way that if Bioware brings her back, no one can complain.

 

However no one can also complain if she is announced to be dead.


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#566
Caddius

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Sherlock Holmes's body was never found in that chasm in Austria in the final problem and yet despite it being off screen he died.

That's a main character in a literary series about him and he died offscreen, I'd argue no body being presented isn't a insurmountable issue.

 

Sherlock Holmes's body was never found in that chasm in Austria in the final problem and yet despite it being off screen he died.

That's a main character in a literary series about him and he died offscreen, I'd argue no body being presented isn't a insurmountable issue.

Really bad example to use, I'm afraid.

They didn't find Sherlock's body after the Final Problem because he was still alive.

The actual details of his death weren't written by Doyle. The last chronological story I know of has him retired as a beekeeper in His Last Bow.

This doesn't mean that Calpernia is alive or dead. It just means that having a character fall off-screen to their 'death' is a tried and true writer's trick, giving them flexibility on the character's actual fate.



#567
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Hardly; leaping off a cliff face or facing down Cory should be as good as the Inquisitor killing her their self.

Hence why its suicide.

#568
Master Warder Z_

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Really bad example to use, I'm afraid.
They didn't find Sherlock's body after the Final Problem because he was still alive.
The actual details of his death weren't written by Doyle. The last chronological story I know of has him retired as a beekeeper in His Last Bow.


*snorts*

No.

He was "resurrected" as a British propaganda tool during the great war, hence why the last 50 odd short stories featuring him all primarily focus on his work as a double agent during the war.

Doyle was content to let him be dead for more then a decade until 1915.

So while I acknowledge his "survival" I also acknowledge that wasn't his original intent as a author which is covered in his own memoirs.

So in the spirit of honoring the original author's intent in "the final problem"

I go off the premise he died.

#569
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I enjoy classical European literature

#570
Caddius

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Well, if we're going into headcanon territory, then I'm going with Hawke as Inquisitor as Gaider originally intended. :D



#571
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Well, if we're going into headcanon territory, then I'm going with Hawke as Inquisitor as Gaider originally intended. :D


Go for it.

And its not really headcannon.

Its just...all those books never happened <...<

1901 was the end of Sherlock Holmes's literary saga

#572
Caddius

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Go for it.

And its not really headcannon.

Its just...all those books never happened <...<

1901 was the end of Sherlock Holmes's literary saga

I used to be a Star Wars EU fan.

I know fanon discontinuity all too well.  :unsure:


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#573
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I used to be a Star Wars EU fan.
I know fanon discontinuity all too well. :unsure:


I really like some of that EU, the black fleet crisis, the thrawn saga, truce at bakura...the Reborn Emperor saga, Continuation of the Galactic civil war.

Etc

It really makes sense the Empire and rebels would throw down for near on 20 years in a conflict that would cost billions of lives.
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#574
Caddius

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I really like some of that EU, the black fleet crisis, the thrawn saga, truce at bakura...the Reborn Emperor saga, Continuation of the Galactic civil war.

Etc

It really makes sense the Empire and rebels would throw down for near on 20 years in a conflict that would cost billions of lives.

Same here. It's just that elements of the New Jedi Order threw me off, and the series that came after it were...not my favorite.

The Imperial Remnant, particularly Thrawn and Pellaeon, however, is very entertaining. 

 

EDIT: Er. *cough* To remain on topic. :lol: Were the Archons back in Tevinter's heyday more powerful and centralized, or was it always the Senate? Sans Corypheus, what would the Venatori try to change in the Tevinter government?


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#575
Master Warder Z_

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Jacen Solo?