Calpernia does exist at least when you side with the Mages. Found a note by the Still Ruins that mentions her. Well, it's also there if you side with the Templars, but that's beside the point. My assumption is that she does stuff out of the spotlight. It is silly that they don't have something on her though.
As for me, Calpernia is one of two reasons why I currently alternate Mage/Templar on my games. She's just fascinating and I hope that Bioware brings her back somehow someway.
I don't know about you, but I wouldn't have been capable of that much strategic foresight at the age of 20, nor would I have had the will to endure a hated fake relationship in the vague hope that I'll be able to change things eventually. Also, there's nothing "just" about your own happiness. What is life worth without at least a chance at that? You're judging Dorian by impossible standards. He may not be Archon material, but "coward" and "weakling" goes too far. Also, please don't cross the border into character bashing. We don't do that here.Dorian had potential to be an Archon but because he didn't want to play ball and get married to a woman, he pretty much lost any political power he might have had in Tevinter; doubly so if he's in a relationship with the Inquisitor or Iron Bull. For all his bitching about wanting to change Tevinter, Dorian was in the best position amongst his peers to bring about change yet tosses it away because of his "ideals". If you look to Anora, she would reluctantly marry the half-brother to her recently deceased husband as well as the murderer of her father in order to bring stability to her nation because she actually cares for her country and would do anything for it even if it impedes on her happiness. Dorian just goes, "Girls! Icky!" and flees from country (though to be fair, there is the whole blood magic thing with his dad), turning to a scandalous organization (at the time) and relying on them to do his dirty work for him (his WT missions, In Hushed Whispers), as much as he likes to claim otherwise.
As "likable" and "charismatic" as he is, Dorian is selfish, an idiot, a weakling, and a coward, and I absolutely will never make him an Archon or anyone of importance in Tevinter if we ever get the chance to in a future installment. If Dorian were competent and patient, he could have married the bride chosen for him, used his political power to become Archon, and changed things little by little as he saw fit so that no one else would've ended up in the same situation as he did as well as had the chance to change Tevinter for the better. But because he cared only about himself, he abandoned everything and everyone he could've saved just for a chance at his own happiness. I'm hoping the devs realize this and don't fall prey to making him a writer's pet like Leliana and making him not only get his cake (being in a loving relationship with the IQ/Iron Bull or being accepted for how he is) but eat it too (being able to save Tevinter with absolutely no repercussions or making him have the least negative things associated with his ideals compared to the other candidates).
I agree. We do not want the Imperium to fall. Even those who hate it should be able to see that this would be like handing the qunari the keys to Thedas.Agree. Tevinter's backbone is made up of the slave trade and if things change too much, Tevinter could fall in the process. Personally, I'm in favor of a middle of the road option where someone wants to bring about change, but does so in small doses so the nation can adapt to it.
Dorian had potential to be an Archon but because he didn't want to play ball and get married to a woman, he pretty much lost any political power he might have had in Tevinter; doubly so if he's in a relationship with the Inquisitor or Iron Bull. For all his bitching about wanting to change Tevinter, Dorian was in the best position amongst his peers to bring about change yet tosses it away because of his "ideals". If you look to Anora, she would reluctantly marry the half-brother to her recently deceased husband as well as the murderer of her father in order to bring stability to her nation because she actually cares for her country and would do anything for it even if it impedes on her happiness. Dorian just goes, "Girls! Icky!" and flees from country (though to be fair, there is the whole blood magic thing with his dad), turning to a scandalous organization (at the time) and relying on them to do his dirty work for him (his WT missions, In Hushed Whispers), as much as he likes to claim otherwise.
I don't think Anora is that generous when you analyse her true motivations. She's a very ambitious woman, which is fine in my book, and yes, she's ready to accept to trade some of what people could consider as a part of their happiness in order to gain more political power. But that's her choice and it seems to me that the political power that she gain in this trade gives her in itself a personal satisfaction that I cannot categorize as selfless and only motivated by the welfare of Ferelden's citizens. I think that like her father, a lot of her strength comes from her ego, she thinks she's the best suited to rule Ferelden, no doubt in her mind. Again, I got no problem with that, everybody is different and as far as she's not blinded by her ambition and doesn't loose contact with reality, sometimes a strong confidence is what is needed to achieve/change things. But Dorian is different and I won't call him selfish because he refused a political arranged wedding. We don't know the future but, what if he had acceped? What would have been the next step? What if the marriage was not enough for his peers and that after that he would have been coerced to sacrifice his principes/happiness piece by piece? Also, something doesn't seems right here, how could someone be against slavery but in the meantime is supposed to raise no objections when he's dragged into a forced wedding?
If you look to Anora, she would reluctantly marry the half-brother to her recently deceased husband as well as the murderer of her father in order to bring stability to her nation because she actually cares for her country and would do anything for it even if it impedes on her happiness.
Anora was ambitious and she did feel like she was the best candidate for the throne, but none of that goes against her feelings toward Fereldan and in fact, reinforces it, because she doesn't want her country to fall to ruin in the hands of an incompetent ruler.
With Dorian, the codex article states that he was from a famed house and that he had great magical power as well as charisma and that his parents believed that he was in a good position to be Archon (or something to that effect) which would mean something since his parents seem to know how Tevinter politics work. With all those things going for him, and the fact that Halward didn't delve into Blood Magic and was able to retain his social standing and even taught Dorian that BM was for the weak, I believe that Dorian would be able to become Archon without compromising his other beliefs had he just gone through with the arranged marriage.
Also, I don't know who you're referring to who's against slavery because I'm not against it and neither is Dorian, who actually argues in favor of it.
Interesting. I'll have to check that note. I don't think mostly not mentioning her is silly though. She never rose to prominence in a templar timeline.Calpernia does exist at least when you side with the Mages. Found a note by the Still Ruins that mentions her. Well, it's also there if you side with the Templars, but that's beside the point. My assumption is that she does stuff out of the spotlight. It is silly that they don't have something on her though.
Yeah, she'll be the only reason I'll have more than one templar playthrough. Otherwise, I find the templar path singularly unappealing for mostly personal reasons.As for me, Calpernia is one of two reasons why I currently alternate Mage/Templar on my games. She's just fascinating and I hope that Bioware brings her back somehow someway.
Calpernia does exist at least when you side with the Mages. Found a note by the Still Ruins that mentions her. Well, it's also there if you side with the Templars, but that's beside the point. My assumption is that she does stuff out of the spotlight. It is silly that they don't have something on her though.
As for me, Calpernia is one of two reasons why I currently alternate Mage/Templar on my games. She's just fascinating and I hope that Bioware brings her back somehow someway.
Yeah, she's still there if you go with the mages. It still sucks that she gets so shafted, though. I would have preferred an appearance regardless of who you choose to side with. As it stands I am unlikely to see her in my game anymore, as I've only done the Templar path once and have no plans to go with it again.
I wonder....does anyone know where the weird spelling of the name comes from? I mean, the name is clearly derived from Calpurnia, which should be familiar to anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of the ancient Roman Empire, and since Tevinter is partly inspired by ancient Rome, I wouldn't have been surprised to see the name appearing. However, spelled as it is it comes across to me as if some insuffiently educated ignoramus had spelt it the wrong way. It really bugs me, to the point that my fingers almost refuse to write the DA version.
Agree. Tevinter's backbone is made up of the slave trade and if things change too much, Tevinter could fall in the process. Personally, I'm in favor of a middle of the road option where someone wants to bring about change, but does so in small doses so the nation can adapt to it.
That's never worked in the past, so why would it work now?
Considering that Samson can be spared, and Calpernia's status can be ambiguous, I hope that BioWare brings back both characters in the future for potential "redemption" stories. Basically, Corypheus's generals are allowed a chance to repair the damage they caused to Thedas. However, it seems that only Calpernia's fate is unclear; Samson apparently ends up dead in a templar playthrough? Either way, I want Calpernia in my mage-focused storyline!
It's never been confirmed that Samson is dead. He is dying due to the lyrium, andh as maybe a few years, but the only mention that is ever made is in the Lost Shrine, when Corypheus said "Samson has failed, but Calpernia is ready."
We know Cory likes to kill for failure (and for success), but it's not confirmed that he's dead, I think.
The archonship in Tevinter is largely inherited. There's absolutely no reason at all that Dorian should expect to be archon, nor any reason that he should take on the responsibility of ruling the entire country himself. That's ridiculous. He and Anora are in completely dissimilar situations.
The suggestion that anybody who doesn't pursue power/career with every ounce of effort possible is a "weakling" or "selfish" is bizarre.
And besides, the suggestion that one must play along with an unjust system is a little bit myopic. There are more paths to reform than that.
(I also don't know why the prospect of Tevinter reform has to set Calpernia and Dorian at odds, or why people seem more forgiving of leading a genocidal organization than... not marrying someone, but whatever).
Regardless, if DA4 goes to Tevinter (I hope) it would be nice to see Calpernia's plot continue just as it would be nice to see Dorian around too. Doesn't have to be a zero-sum thing here.
Doesn't Dorian Approve if you let Calpernia go? Last I check Tevinter is a pretty big place. Surely it's big enough for the both of em?
Anyways, it's a wait and see thing to me either way. I'm hoping to see the both of them. Tevinter sounds amazing. (Well, the country's architecture and history does. Blood magic and Slaves... not so much)
Doesn't Dorian Approve if you let Calpernia go? Last I check Tevinter is a pretty big place. Surely it's big enough for the both of em?
Anyways, it's a wait and see thing to me either way. I'm hoping to see the both of them. Tevinter sounds amazing. (Well, the country's architecture and history does. Blood magic and Slaves... not so much)
Without the blood magic and the slavery, we wouldn't have our big evils to fight, so I'll take them. As for Dorian and Calpernia, imagine them teaming up. That would be a potent team. Dorian has connections Calpernia lacks, and Calpernia is the leader Dorian isn't. I assume they won't exactly get along, but it is for the greater good :/
(I also don't know why the prospect of Tevinter reform has to set Calpernia and Dorian at odds, or why people seem more forgiving of leading a genocidal organization than... not marrying someone, but whatever).
Because, as I said, the scale of Dorian's reform (BTW, personally I think there's nothing to "forgive" for him, he is ok in my book) and Calpernia's reform is totally different. Dorian's goal is mainly focus on how bureaucratic system works, while what Calpernia wants is to root out the whole economic system, aka slavery, which a progressive noble like Dorian wouldn't even think about.
I have no strong intention to morally justify her, but neither does her. She is willing to serve a villain because that's the only chance to accomplish her goal. You may not agree with her method, but you have to give her some credit.
Because, as I said, the scale of Dorian's reform (BTW, personally I think there's nothing to "forgive" for him, he is ok in my book) and Calpernia's reform is totally different. Dorian's goal is mainly focus on how bureaucratic system works, while what Calpernia wants is to root out the whole economic system, aka slavery, which a progressive noble like Dorian wouldn't even think about.
I have no strong intention to morally justify her, but neither does her. She is willing to serve a villain because that's the only chance to accomplish her goal. You may not agree with her method, but you have to give her some credit.
I don't agree on several points:
(1) Dorian would fight the corruption in the Magisterium, mainly. That is his domain, after all. He would not limit himself to "bureaucratic adjustments" because that wouldn't be enough.
(2) Calpernia wouldn't pull the whole system down. She's smarter than that. See how she still uses slaves, only ensures that they're treated like people within the confines of the system. Overhauling the system may be her ultimate goal, but she also wants to see Tevinter powerful, and she knows quite well that she can't just pull the floor out from under the economy. That has to be a step-by-step process.
If you think about it, these two would complement each other well.
(2) Calpernia wouldn't pull the whole system down. She's smarter than that. See how she still uses slaves, only ensures that they're treated like people within the confines of the system. Overhauling the system may be her ultimate goal, but she also wants to see Tevinter powerful, and she knows quite well that she can't just pull the floor out from under the economy. That has to be a step-by-step process.
If you think about it, these two would complement each other well.
This might be a case of gameplay/story segregation.
Calpernia is said to free
all of her personal slaves but the Venatori still use them and, judging by how they are chained to their armour, they are still badly treated.
It could be as you say, Calpernia willing to pretend she is doing it for the greater good so long as she doesn't actually have to see the slavery herself but I doubt it.
For one, she killed a slaver that had concealed his identity so well he was able to operate from Val Royeaux itself, just because he mistreated his slaves. This likely weakened the Venatori's position.
Then, there's also the assumption the writers intended for us to witness what a Tevinter army would look like, slave warriors et all, and wouldn't have omitted them just to fit Calpernia's personality.
If she is last hope of tevinter then tevinter is screwd because that lady is ridiculously dumb on clarel level if not more.What retard you need to be to trust corypheus and look at him as savior even clarel wouldn't be so dumb to trust corypheus.
Besides judging by her actions she isn't much better than that current tevinter so pretty much.
Then, there's also the assumption the writers intended for us to witness what a Tevinter army would look like, slave warriors et all, and wouldn't have omitted them just to fit Calpernia's personality.
According to WoT, slaves are not allowed to serve in the army, though slaveowners do use them as bodyguards. Still, I can't imagine they would make up the bulk of a Tevinter force.
My templar playthrough is a few weeks in the past, I may have misremembered. Still, the motivation remains: she wants a strong Tevinter, yes, without corruption and slavery but also strong enough to stand agains the qunari. The thing is, her personal environment is one thing, but once she makes decisions on a larger scale she won't be able to be as radical. It's not a matter of giving up her goals, but rather a question of the right way to get there. All at once won't work.This might be a case of gameplay/story segregation.
Calpernia is said to free
It could be as you say, Calpernia willing to pretend she is doing it for the greater good so long as she doesn't actually have to see the slavery herself but I doubt it.
For one, she killed a slaver that had concealed his identity so well he was able to operate from Val Royeaux itself, just because he mistreated his slaves. This likely weakened the Venatori's position.
Then, there's also the assumption the writers intended for us to witness what a Tevinter army would look like, slave warriors et all, and wouldn't have omitted them just to fit Calpernia's personality.
I could see Dorian and Calpernia being allies at first out of necessity, and then later disagreeing about what to do afterwards.
Dorian belongs to the Whiggish tradition -- that of the reforming establishment figure. He's proud of being Altus, proud of the Magisterium, and sees no problems with slavery. He feels that his social peers' more megalomaniacal tendencies threatens to destroy all the history and culture of Tevinter that he holds dear. He doesn't value power for its own sake nor does he wish Tevinter to conquer, but he is still a proud aristocrat.
I think saying he has no problems with slavery is a mischaracterization. He hadn't really thought much about slavery before he left home, but he does realize there are definitely issues with it, while also recognizing if all the slaves were just freed it would leave them in a situation which wouldn't automatically be better. I definitely think he'd like to make things better for them, but he's not sure how to accomplish that or even what it would look like.
And that's rather smart of him IMO. I wouldn't know either. Slavery is bad, but most people are unaware of just how unfree inescapable poverty makes you, and the idea that anyone can get out of it purely by their own effort has never been more than a conceit of Protestant work ethics.I think saying he has no problems with slavery is a mischaracterization. He hadn't really thought much about slavery before he left home, but he does realize there are definitely issues with it, while also recognizing if all the slaves were just freed it would leave them in a situation which wouldn't automatically be better. I definitely think he'd like to make things better for them, but he's not sure how to accomplish that or even what it would look like.
Ok, I was perhaps a little too terse. Dangers of mobile posting.I think saying he has no problems with slavery is a mischaracterization. He hadn't really thought much about slavery before he left home, but he does realize there are definitely issues with it, while also recognizing if all the slaves were just freed it would leave them in a situation which wouldn't automatically be better. I definitely think he'd like to make things better for them, but he's not sure how to accomplish that or even what it would look like.
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