80 réponses à ce sujet

[Realmzmaster]

I really do not see much value in permadeath. Basically, it's just forcing you to start from the beginning because it deletes all of your saves, and it doesn't carry any real emotional weight beyond the likely frustration of having to possibly go through up to even 100+ hours of gameplay. It's just a hardcore game over that makes starting again feel more like a chore. If people want the option, OK sure let them have their fun, but as a fixed design element, hell to the motherflippin' no.

 

Actually the permadeath you are referring to occurs in roguelikes. The other permadeath is where the main protagonist is killed it produces a game over. The player continues from the last save. It made sense in BG1 because without the Bhaalspawn there was no continuance. It would have made sense for DAI before the Breach close because the Inquisitor was the only one who could close the Breach or rifts. So losing the Inquisitor should have meant game over and reload.

NWN for Bioware was the game that abandon permadeath. The protagonist and companion were simply sent back to the temple to be resurrected if the protagonist died. If the companion died. The companion was sent back to the temple to be resurrected and the protagonist had to travel to the temple to retrieve them.

The point of permadeath is it changed how encounters had to be approached. I am all for options especially if the game allows for Iron Man rules as an option.

[Raoni Luna]

 

 

The birth of RPG for me started with 1.0 D & D.

 

I must have missed where the warden did not help people.

So I just picked 2 relevant parts of your post:

1. Explains it all, you like awful things. DnD 1.0 was so awful I made nanobots brain surgery to remove it from my mind and replace with useful things.

 

2. You, like everyone else keep ignoring everything that Inquisition have different, pretending it is not there and then throw some things that can, somehow be like Origins. Warden helped people, but what is really important is that the Warden didn't jump, didn't collect respawning resources, didn't fight respawning enemies, didn't need RNG (I only counted on RNG in Awakening to obtain one item, I don't even remeber which, from assassins in the fort, I reloaded a couple of times and that's it), and on and on...

What matter is that the rogue warden could use two handed axe and the mage warden could use sword and shield. These are the things that matter. These same things that all previous bioware RPG had. It is called: Not being action mario platform mmo rpg.

[Sylvius the Mad]

"$&$%/&/$%&/ $%/%&( $%&/$%&(§%&(%§%&( $% $%&/%&/ %&//&/§%&&/)) ?=(&/) !§"%$&%& "$%&$%/&%§%&/
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ...
*raises from the desk where he sits ... runs down into the garden ... sacrifices a goat and washes his face in it's blood ... starts to breath very deeply and very distinctively like a demon from another world looking for a sacrificial lamb from the human world ... runs back to his desk and starts to hit the keys again*

Darn it ... Little tip on the side for you, Sylvius:

"Grow a spine!"

... So you have realized that there are power hungry and greedy people in this world who stop at nothing ...

And your "BIG PLAN" to handle that info is to "BACK-DOWN" ???

From someone who wrote 19thausend postings on the BSN I expect, shall we say: "A little something different" !?!?!?!?!

Well, Sylvius, please forgive me for: "Having some fun here" ... in this response. I really am just fooling around here, a bit ...

But I really think that this kind of thinking is leading nobody of us anywhere - including you. I understand you full-well and I even respect your thinking but that is not why I started writing, here on the BSN, in November 2014. That is exactly the opposite of it - in fact!

I want to make Bioware hear us and listen to us ...

Even if they don't listen ... I will at least try!

The last thing I would be willing to do is to tell Bioware - after writing 19000 postings - to do everything just like EA wishes it, because then I won't have to think anymore and can finally start:

"EXCEPTING EVERYTHING AND SWALLOW EVERYTHING WHOLE AND EAT EVERYTHING UP WITH A SPOON"

No, my friend, no ...

I can respect your opinion but I wholeheartedly disagree!

Don't give in! NEVER GIVE UP! We have some power and we have some inluence.

We can make our voices heard in many ways and we always can vote with our wallets. I know this is frustrating as hell and discouraging and all ... But we have to look at it from a better angle. We have to see "the good side of it".

...

...

There is a movement ( kickstarter does not come from nowhere !!!) that tries to counter the destructive influence of the big publishers on the gaming industry. This means that we are not alone with our feelings and opinions on the consumer side of things!

The devs want to break that cycle as well as us !!!

That is where we have to start, that is where we have to throw our punches in, that is where we have to throw our fireballs ...
And that is why we have to give our feedback and make our voices heard and why we always can vote with our wallets ...

Yes, it will take long but we must not give-in!

--------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------

Now, I know none of you guys, Vader20, Sylvius the Mad or anybody like 'em here wants to "give-in", okay? I know that ...

But I simply wanted to point out how important it is to realize: "That we have some power and we have some influence."

Sure we do, but unfortunately EA is right. Most people don't want to be challenged by their entertainment.

We do, but we're at the fringes of the target audience (if we are in it at all). I think we should acknowledge that the big publishers have no particular interest in providing us with intellectually stimulating content, and instead try to make this known ti as many people as we can.

Fighting to get EA to give us analytical complexity is doomed to failure. But if we can get everyone involved to recognize that the market for that content both does exist and isn't being served, then someone will serve it (as some Kickstarter games already have).

[Realmzmaster]

So I just picked 2 relevant parts of your post:

1. Explains it all, you like awful things. DnD 1.0 was so awful I made nanobots brain surgery to remove it from my mind and replace with useful things.

 

2. You, like everyone else keep ignoring everything that Inquisition have different, pretending it is not there and then throw some things that can, somehow be like Origins. Warden helped people, but what is really important is that the Warden didn't jump, didn't collect respawning resources, didn't fight respawning enemies, didn't need RNG (I only counted on RNG in Awakening to obtain one item, I don't even remeber which, from assassins in the fort, I reloaded a couple of times and that's it), and on and on...

What matter is that the rogue warden could use two handed axe and the mage warden could use sword and shield. These are the things that matter. These same things that all previous bioware RPG had. It is called: Not being action mario platform mmo rpg.

 

No those things matter to you. It makes DAI less of an RPG to you. Those things in the scheme of things do not matter to me. I am not ignoring anything because the things Inquisition brings to the table I like.  I have a checklist of the items I believe should be in an RPG. For example some gamers are upset because they cannot directly access the attributes to change them at creation or level up. The point I make is the system does give you the ability to change the attributes through skill selection and equipment. So that fits my definition of an RPG. It is different from D & D and previous DA games. That does not bother me because I have played a host of different p & p rpg systems and cRPG systems. It is simply different. I have no problem adapting to the system.  IMHO it gives me more flexibility on how I define the party.

 

The warden could not jump. That was one of the limitations of the engine used until it was modified for DA2. Every battle in DAO was a set encounter. I could tell because I play wargames both board and computer. It made defeating the enemy easy. At least DA2 was less predictable in where the enemy was going to be. I welcomed the parachuting warriors after DAO's combat. It made no sense that an area gets cleared in DAO and nothing appears in the area again.

[Realmzmaster]

The problem with the early crpgs is that the only part of role playing that they were good at was combat and character builds the social interaction and story telling  part were lacking. The computers of today are now powerful enough to mimic the social interaction, (banter between characters abd interacting with the world) and have improved storytelling. Many gamers on this forum are into the social interaction and story elements of the game for their entertainment. 

 

Storytelling and social interaction were big parts of the tabletop sessions. 

 

Some of the early crpgs did not have an automatic level up button for characters. Nowadays you would be hard press to find one that does not. Quite a few early crpgs had only one difficulty. Now there are multiple levels. 

 

Some gamers are not interested in analytical complexity in their fun. Some are in it for the story and story elements which are big elements in a tabletop session right there with combat and builds.

 

Some complained that rpgs are not about storytelling, but that was only because power to do so was not there. That tide has shifted.

 

Also some gamers may be attracted to the story aspects of cRPGs having come from different genres. Combat and analytical complexity are not what they are looking for.

 

I welcome analytical complexity. I also like flexibility in gaming systems.l I have stated many times on the forum what I want to see in an cRPG, but some gamers on this forum who ask for analytical complexity only wish to engage in the complexity they want.

[Vader20]

Sure we do, but unfortunately EA is right. Most people don't want to be challenged by their entertainment.

We do, but we're at the fringes of the target audience (if we are in it at all). I think we should acknowledge that the big publishers have no particular interest in providing us with intellectually stimulating content, and instead try to make this known ti as many people as we can.

Fighting to get EA to give us analytical complexity is doomed to failure. But if we can get everyone involved to recognize that the market for that content both does exist and isn't being served, then someone will serve it (as some Kickstarter games already have).

 

I must be a real alien, but here are my thoughts on this matter.... For me games were always like watching a good movie that you want rewatch because that's how good it was. This why I would easily overlook the simplicity of DAI's elements if the story was that GOOD. I wasn't a big fan of DAO, but the story had a kind of atmosphere that always made me replay the game. Same goes for Dungeon Siege 3... the gameplay sucked, but the story was fantastic for me and I played it a lot just for that.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I'm not really that interested in the story the developers write. I'd much rather be given a detailed world in which I can make my own.

[Frenrihr]

You are using a mage? My party has four rogues. The only time I dust off the mages is to do their personal quests. You use supply caches? Never touch them. Never touch multiplayer. Have no interest in it. But that how I play DAI. YMMV.

Where in my post did I ever say the game was hard. In fact no DA game has been hard. I would have ran an all ranger party in DAO but I could only get three so I settled for Shale as a tank. The same in DA2. I had three rogues and Aveline as tank.

 

For hard I go play Realms of Arkania series (the original series) or The Dark Eye: Drakensang series.

 

Stop playing in casual.

[Bioware-Critic]

Sure we do, but unfortunately EA is right. Most people don't want to be challenged by their entertainment.

We do, but we're at the fringes of the target audience (if we are in it at all). I think we should acknowledge that the big publishers have no particular interest in providing us with intellectually stimulating content, and instead try to make this known ti as many people as we can.

Fighting to get EA to give us analytical complexity is doomed to failure. But if we can get everyone involved to recognize that the market for that content both does exist and isn't being served, then someone will serve it (as some Kickstarter games already have).

Like I said: "I wholeheartedly disagree!"

I do NOT believe that people in general are "stupid" or anything like it. And I do not believe that people dislike to be "challenged" by their entertainment in general. And my argument for saying that - despite the existance of something like "TV" and so on - is that the very existance of the RPG-genre disproves your argument! The very existance of the RPG-genre completely dismantles your argument in my eyes.

So, no! When someone rich and powerful tries to "corrupt" the developer industry and tries to "dismantle" and "rape" the RPG-genre, I am not gonna stand idle by it and say: "Ah well, people are stupid ... and very gullible anyway. History has shown this to us many times over!" No, Sylvius, I am gonna start screaming: "Fire, rape, murder ... police, police ... police, please come over here!" ... and say things like: "Dear RPG-fans don't give in! There are people trying to rob you and cheat you out of your assets. There are people trying to fool you and use you and take advantage of you!" That is what I am gonna say ...

... but, I tell you something else:

The Pirate Bay is back up

Yup, that's right - they couldn't shut it down! Not if they started WW3 over it! Not in a cold day in hell ...

Because we are stronger than they will ever be!

Sylvius, do you really think that your adamant cynicism is gonna help anybody? I mean not even you can ignore that it is people "like you" that are needed - desperately needed - to step up and say something about all this s*hit that is going on and that is slowly but surely destroying this industry (although it is going rather fast ) ?!?
I mean you are kind of hung-up on the "first step of solving a problem", which is "to recognize that there is a problem" ...
Yes, in the history of mankind we have witnessed a lot of stupidity and we still have a lot people that cannot read a simple newspaper correctly - even today! But mankind has traveled to the moon and is trying to cure cancer because we humans are kind of a resilliant bunch.

And you know why that is? Because we have to

Because most things are complicated and NOT easy to handle or to solve - that's why!

What I do believe on the other hand is that big companies know exactly what power they have and that they try to shove some things down our throats ... with big commercials, and "bells and whistles" and false/bought "reviews" and so on.

They control the information wherever they can. They make use of their power. Which means ... we will have to do the same!

And I also believe that many people are inexperienced when it comes to the devotion of those big companies to "lie everybody in the face" and to sacrifice "substance" and any kind of "class" for a few more bucks ... or more correctly: "Theoretical market projections!"
You see, there are a lot of people like me, that will not give them their money any longer. My eyes are open and I am not gullible. And I am not alone. The younger gamers who just get started are too naive to understand correctly even half of what is going on "behind the curtain" - no question !!! But the average gamer is 35 years old ... This is a hard fact! Gamers are grown ups - not children. Grown ups are experienced and are not new to any genre. Children can be sucked into any hype, really - but not 35-55 years old men and women! At least not on average ...
So ... even if some younger customers are new to the genre, they will enjoy the complexity of RPG's once they have experienced it and familiarised themselves with it. The publishers behave like politicians who want to catch the votes of "swing-voters" because they are thinking in terms of "market-shares", "future expansions", "mergers" and "going succesfully into foreign markets" and so on and so on ... They don't even "see" the games they are publishing ... They just see "tools" to work with for further developement of their capitalistic plans (of utter hubris) for potential "market-domination!" They will never be satisfied - NEVER!
But that does not change the fact that humans in general - which includes gamers as well - like their minds to get stimulated ... not just genre-veterans from a "bygone era"! Humans in general enjoy culture. In fact - we even love it!

And anybody can get behind enjoyment ...

These companies tell us to our faces that we are stupid or that consumers in general are stupid.

I disagree. And you should too!

The people as a mass are stronger than any company will ever be and nobody is ever gonna convince me otherwise!

If the populous speaks up loud enough - we will be heard!

[Darkly Tranquil]

Fighting to get EA to give us analytical complexity is doomed to failure. But if we can get everyone involved to recognize that the market for that content both does exist and isn't being served, then someone will serve it (as some Kickstarter games already have).

Sadly true. DAI was likely my last Bioware purchase (barring a serious change of design direction). If I didn't love the DA lore so much I'd have already walked away. In any case, I'm now directing my $$$ to Kickstarter projects like Shadowrun, since that seems to be where the people who want to make tactical RPGs are to be found. Fortunately there seems to be plenty of life in the TRPG genre in indie land, it just means that we won't get RPGs with big production values which is kind of a shame.

[Zehealingman]

Fireball.

Seriously, we have seen it's spell icon during offical videos and the spell icon is on one of the loading screen cards.

[CenturyCrow]

Damn.. are you sure ? Because this means that EA doesn't think too much about it's target audience's intelectual capacity....   Are we mindless apes who are unable to pick stats and choose from more complex spell trees ? I mean, is it that hard ?

Jesus Christ... How were some of us able to play Baldurs Gate and Morrowind ?

EA thinks about making money. Then they think about making more money. Then they try to forget winning worst company award.

 

Consider that the original BioWare and many other companies made money simply because they made good games.

 

That's not how EA 'thinks. EA thinks–how can we monetize those popular single player games like Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age by BioWare? EA VP decides no game will be released without multiplayer. Mass Effect and Dragon Age now have multiplayer. Adding multiplayer wasn't cost free. And I wonder how much better if all the money went to a single player only ME 3 and DA:I

 

We did lose a lot in the transition from the earlier games to DA:I and I find parts of the game awkward. It just doesn't play as easily as DA:O

 

The art/design team however, is still top notch. Easy to get distracted from playing the game just wandering around in the environments that they've created. However, artists generally don't get to make policy changes–that's way up the corporate ladder.

 

One of the biggest losses though, was the toolset from all the previous games. A lot of talented people added a lot of mods to those games (for free) and enriched the community with their craft. Remember how the games were improved and many problems fixed? EA and BioWare could hardly be unaware of the popularity of NexusMods for DragonAge and all the mods and helper applications available. All those mods really added to game replayability (something that DA 2 didn't have for me). Look just the hair styles added to DA:O–now count the how many unisex hairstyles available in DA:I–very limited.

 

Disclaimer: I really did want to get DA:I for the PC but didn't want to install Origin nor have to put up with the new DRM scheme (another EA favorite) so I opted out for the PlayStation 4 version.

[Realmzmaster]

Stop playing in casual.

 

I never play in casual. 

[Realmzmaster]

If Bioware made so much money from making good games why did Bioware have to partner with Elevation Partners an equity financier who also owned Pandemic Entertainment. Elevation Partners invested $300 million into the partnership that formed VG Holding (Bioware, Pandemic and Elevation Partners) that made Elevation Partners the majority partner. 

 

If Bioware was making as much money as people claim they would not need a partner to invest that much money. Bioware could have simply funded their own games with money made from previous games. But that does not appear to be the case. 

 

If Bioware was making so much money off their games Bioware would have been able to buyout Elevation Partners share of the partnership which is the case in most general partnerships which is covered in the articles of the partnership agreement. Again that does appear to be the case.

[Sylvius the Mad]

But mankind has traveled to the moon and is trying to cure cancer because we humans are kind of a resilliant bunch.

All of the progress of the sort you describe, in the whole history of the world, has been caused by a few thousand extremely intelligent deviants.

 

The human population of the Earth consists of billions and billions of people who are not like that, and a tiny tiny fraction who are.

[Frenrihr]

I never play in casual. 

 

Then you are lying.

[Realmzmaster]

Then you are lying.

 

I have no reason to lie. But you go on thinking I am if it makes you feel better.

[o Ventus]

Ok i get why certain monsters were removed but why were lots of other things removed such as (see below) could they be added in dlc
Finishing moves- very satisfying in dao to cut down a darkspawn and chop off its head. This is a feature that is in a ton of todays games
Heavy armors-is there platemail in the game.
Switching out of weapons in combat-im a rogue and theres a dragon and i cant switch out of daggers to bow or switch spells
The ability for rogues to use swords and shields. Make it harder to obtain the skill but streamlining it to where its one weapon takes a lot of fun out of being an rpg
Talking to companions while walking. I just to able to talk to morrigan or sten while traveling
Beards and hair- why is there more clipping in dai than in Dao?
Cities and towns-no cities like denerim? Less random backstreet encounters, orphanages, no children, warehouses, thieves etc
Less stop gap encounters between locations. Meeting sera is the only 1?
City elves-you never get the feeling theres 2 classes of elves
Tons of qunari mercenaries? Lot lessin dai
Sandal and bodahn?

Of all of these, they only removed finishing moves, on-the-move conversations with companions while out on missions, and cross-class weapons (rogues w/ swords, Warriors w/ staves, etc). Literally everything else returns in one form or another, aside from the Qunari mercenaries, of which there were none in DAO.

[DanteYoda]

Some of the early parts of the game was made in an older engine. During development they switch engines which is why the latter parts of the game look better than the early parts. This can happen over a long development time. Rather than re-doing the early assets they simply get recycled them into the new engine. It saves both time and money. DAO was announced in 2004. It was not released until 2009. A lot of turmoil happened during those five years.

I wonder if that is why my game stutters a lot early on and later it seems much better..

[TurretSyndrome]

Stop playing in casual.

 

If only you knew how easy this game is on any difficulty. 

[DanteYoda]

I never play in casual. 

Actually you need mages to collect Runes.. No one else can light Veil fire that's why i use them in my parties.

[Bioware-Critic]

All of the progress of the sort you describe, in the whole history of the world, has been caused by a few thousand extremely intelligent deviants.

 

The human population of the Earth consists of billions and billions of people who are not like that, and a tiny tiny fraction who are.

 

I am glad that you responded, Sylvius.

I kind of was afraid that you take my very long posting as rude or presumptuous or something ... or just think ... WTF?

 

Anyways ...

I think that none of these projects were being achieved by only a few thousand individuals - it was a couple more. Because you kind of ignore the size of these projects! And I like to believe that all the helping hands involved in these gargantuan projects (which were very often achieved over the course of generations of men and women who participated in them) were proud to have taken part in these undertakings. And I think that everyone of these people (stupid or not) were aware of and proud to know what they did there.

We live today in the era of information and the era of the internet - a information network. People know a lot more these days about what is going on in the world. And when it comes to their hobbies - people do get involved and people do keep themselves up to date. So, I am hopeful that when only a few driving forces open up the right discussions and help to get the show on the road that everybody else that is affected by the outcome will in one way or another listen and participate. Yeah, I really believe what I have just written - MAD, I KNOW! My reason for doing so is simple: People are human beings and human beings have brains. And these little wonders of biology tend to work quite well when it counts. All these little bio-computers need is to focus there attention towards a certain problem! That can be achieved - I think ...

 

[spacefiddle]

All of the progress of the sort you describe, in the whole history of the world, has been caused by a few thousand extremely intelligent deviants.

 

The human population of the Earth consists of billions and billions of people who are not like that, and a tiny tiny fraction who are.

 

Intelligence is a mutation, and so far I must sadly conclude that it is not a successful one.

[Bioware-Critic]

Intelligence is a mutation, and so far I must sadly conclude that it is not a successful one.

 

Human beings are far too easy to manipulate! And they are very much vulnerable when they don't know a lot - living in the 21st century ...

 

They trust too easily and they follow others too easily ...

 

And most of them are living in their head - across the board! Which is often a handicap for them.

 

Especially when they don't know that much about the world

[Sylvius the Mad]

Anyways ...
I think that none of these projects were being achieved by only a few thousand individuals - it was a couple more. Because you kind of ignore the size of these projects! And I like to believe that all the helping hands involved in these gargantuan projects (which were very often achieved over the course of generations of men and women who participated in them) were proud to have taken part in these undertakings. And I think that everyone of these people (stupid or not) were aware of and proud to know what they did there.
We live today in the era of information and the era of the internet - a information network. People know a lot more these days about what is going on in the world. And when it comes to their hobbies - people do get involved and people do keep themselves up to date. So, I am hopeful that when only a few driving forces open up the right discussions and help to get the show on the road that everybody else that is affected by the outcome will in one way or another listen and participate. Yeah, I really believe what I have just written - MAD, I KNOW! My reason for doing so is simple: People are human beings and human beings have brains. And these little wonders of biology tend to work quite well when it counts. All these little bio-computers need is to focus there attention towards a certain problem! That can be achieved - I think ...

The common sense of any era is roughly equivalent to cutting edge philosophy of three centuries earlier.

The population at large does a lousy job of keeping up with new ideas.