124 réponses à ce sujet

[Poison_Berrie]

I'm actually very torn between these two. What bothers me is that I cannot ignore my compulsion to follow up on the plot introduced by Dorian in the Redcliffe Chantry, which is what makes going to Therinfall Redoubt difficult. But, on the other hand, I thought the actual Templar mission was very well done. While the demon could have been done better, I actually love its taunting, and Cole's introduction has far more depth to it. On top of that, I like Calpernia much more than Samson, but I enjoy Samson's connection to the previous game and to Cullen.

I kind of like Samson, but the Temple of Dumat quest with Calpernia looks a lot more interesting.

[Korva]

I wonder how many people would still choose Templars if Barris didn't exist or always died at the end of the mission.

 

Me, easily. He did die on me this first time around because I didn't even know I could save him ... and he kinda had a "sympathetic character who dies for the sake of emotional impact" vibe about him. That sort of thing isn't uncommon. So I was definitely sad to see him go, and really annoyed with myself later on when I learned he can survive, but whether he lives or dies he's still memorable and a part of the appeal of the mission.

[Ashagar]

I wonder how many people would still choose Templars if Barris didn't exist or always died at the end of the mission.

 

I would, I've always rather liked redemption tales for one thing. I found the envy demon to be the most personally threatening and disturbing demon in the series or many other series for that matter and I found the story of the uncorrupted Templars fighting their corrupted comrades and trying to bring them to their senses emotionally potent. Especially when you think about the fact it happens regardless of wither the Inquisition is there or not.

[Biotic Flash Kick]

Third option:

 

Ally mages

make alexius work for you

get time travel magic

travel back in time

get templars as well

 

:3

[Neon Rising Winter]

Third option:

 

Ally mages

make alexius work for you

get time travel magic

travel back in time

get templars as well

 

:3

 

Now that's more like it. If we're going to be meddling in forces man was not meant to know we might as well go the whole hog.

[FiveThreeTen]

Now I prefer the Templar side for various reasons:.

 

The Mage side does a poor job at involving the faction you are actually trying to recruit whereas Templars actively participate in the Templar plot.

I dislike Time-travel storyline in fictions in general. It's a bit cliche but I was really enjoying the Mage mission until Dorian told my character : "We have been transported into the future!". Then I become really detached from the plot because I know everything I'm playing is in a future that won't happen because of course, we have to fix the alternate timeline.

 

On the plus side, the music and art direction is really well-done in future Redcliffe castle and you get a cameo of the Ferelden ruler(s) (but it's very short).

Now on Fiona:

Spoiler

 

On the Templar side, I never really saw the appeal of Ser Barris (like Fiona, no strong feeling one way or the other) but maybe that's because I conscripted them so I didn't get his wartable mission?

I did prefer Calpernia over Samson, but from all I had heard about her quest, giving more insight on Coryfish and all that; I was really disappointed, you don't learn THAT much TBH. Still, better than Samson, and a far more memorable character once you reach the Well of Sorrows.

I like Cole, so I don't like missing on his introduction at Therinfall.

The Envy demon is both creepy and funny.

 

So yeah, Templars, unless I reroll a mage in the future.

[In Exile]

Did anyone else find the "story" when siding with the templars to be less satisfying, or even less urgent, as opposed to the mages?

Siding with the mages you're sent forward into time to literally see what would happen if you fail at your task in stopping Cory. Where as the templars, it just shows your reputation as Inquisitor being destroyed, and you being corrupted, as a demon has taken your identity.

I understand that both of these negative situations would ultimately result in the same outcome, but the mages made it seem SO much more of a serious, urgent, situation. I felt more "pumped" to beat the game siding with the mages.

Or maybe that's just me.

I agree. I was incredibly underwhelmed by the templar story.

[Biotic Flash Kick]

Now that's more like it. If we're going to be meddling in forces man was not meant to know we might as well go the whole hog.

 

high risk? All reward!

[Korva]

On the Templar side, I never really saw the appeal of Ser Barris (like Fiona, no strong feeling one way or the other) but maybe that's because I conscripted them so I didn't get his wartable mission?

 

From what I heard, the trigger for his missions is sadly bugged for many people.

 

At any rate, I like Barris because he is needed: an active, sympathetic, uncorrupted templar who shows what the order could and should be. More, he actively helps us throughout the mission, steps up to lead his surviving brothers and sisters in bringing Envy's shield down, and if needed lays down his own life without hesitation or regret. That's something I can respect, even though I heavily side-eyed him in Val Royeaux when he did nothing while Lucius' lackey punched an unarmed cleric in the head from behind. At Therinfal, he shakes off the conditioned soldier's response to authority, opens his eyes, and does the right thing.

 

There are, and always have been, a lot more mage characters than templars, and certainly more sympathetic, fleshed-out mages than templars. Hell, we've never had a templar as a companion while there are mage companions aplenty. Something was missing, a voice and face for better parts of the order, and Barris can fill that void which makes it a shame that he doesn't play a bigger role IMO. Cullen doesn't count because he left and doesn't want anything to do with that life anymore (and because some people have justifiable reservations about him based on his past conduct), Alistair doesn't count because he never wanted to be a templar and hated it, Cassandra doesn't count because she's a Seeker.

 

I like the redemption theme of Champions of the Just and its war table follow-ups, the notion of taking what should be good but has fallen so far and failed so utterly, of tearing away what was corrupted and helping the tattered remains remake themselves into what they should always have been. Barris embodies that struggle.

[FiveThreeTen]

From what I heard, the trigger for his missions is sadly bugged for many people.

That's somehow reassuring because I'm more a "both sides needs to be conscripted" type.

 

And I just realised Ser Barris voice actor might be the same preson who voiced Ser Jory in Origins.

[Boost32]

No way!

Champions of the Just is, IMO, one of the best quest in the whole franchise. I like politics, so the start, with the noble family, was a good one. When the massacre started it was so insense, it reminded me the Red Wedding scene.

Rallying with Ser Barris, saving and fighthing side by side with others templars, defending the hall and dispelling the barrier, seeing the templars kneeling before me. was soo good.

Ser Barris is Badass! He leading the templars agains the reds, drinking the lyrium, doing anything to save the Order from the corruption, at the end of the quest i thought "wish I could make him the leader of my templars", I grinned when I could do it, promoving him to Templar Commander of the Inquisiton was a memorable moment.

[OmegaXI]

I've always played a mage and sided with the mages in the previous games, but in DAI I felt the Templars were the better choice since I already had the mages that stayed loyal to the circle, and I found out what the Mages did (or didn't stop) to the Tranquil mages of their rebellion. 

 

Also playing through as a mages that did believed they where sent by andrasta and having the Inquisitor special dialogue saying to the Templars

"Our lady has sent I a mage here to remind you of your sacred duty to fight heretical magic." was just amazing from a story line  perspective and from what it meant.

[KaiserShep]

I wonder how many people would still choose Templars if Barris didn't exist or always died at the end of the mission.

Honestly, Barris' death or survival didn't really change my thoughts on the mission, and in the end it didn't really matter since I conscripted their asses anyway. He died for me, though I was aware he could survive, and I kind of enjoy the effect either way, although, I also think that Barris is a bit overrated. He's a reasonable Templar, but he wouldn't be the first that the Inquisitor met, just one of the few blessed with more dialogue.

 

In fact, I wish Fiona could die in the mage mission. I'd have her croak every time and let someone who didn't agree to the Vint indenture rise to lead the mages. I would enjoy In Hushed Whispers even more. She sacrificed her life for her rebellion, and in her death the mages can go down a better path. I like that angle.

[Ieldra]

I did not find the templar story at all compelling. Escaping the demon had potential, but lost all impact because I wasn't tempted by the scenarios shown me, which really should've been the point of showing them to me from the demon's perspective. Apart from that, I can't connect with the templars, ideologically. Not that I necessarily hate them, but they're alien to the way I think, in several different ways. Meanwhile, in In Hushed Whispers I was shown what magic could do to the world in the wrong hands, or used irresponsibly. Since I always connect to magical power in stories like this, as I always connect to means of individual empowerment and autonomy, that had impact. It was meaningful as the story of the envy demon was not.

 

So in terms of the choice between "Champions of the Just" and "In Hushed Whispers", I tend to choose the latter. However, the templar path has Calpernia, and she's way more interesting than Samson, and her story gives you better insight into how Corypheus thinks.

 

Which means that it's a hard choice.

[Gileadan]

I'm absolutely pleased with the templar side of things and prefer it over mages.

But my line of thought when going in was not "whose mess should I fix", it was "who is probably better at killing demons".

[KaiserShep]

So in terms of the choice between "Champions of the Just" and "In Hushed Whispers", I tend to choose the latter. However, the templar path has Calpernia, and she's way more interesting than Samson, and her story gives you better insight into how Corypheus thinks.

 

Which means that it's a hard choice.

 

Yeah, in the end, it's really Calpernia that makes it a bit harder. If it was always Samson or Calpernia regardless of which quest you did, then I would never pick the Templar mission ever again.

[Dieb]

I liked siding with the Templars more - it gives my Inquistor a distinct reason to keep Cole around and defend him in front of the others. Dorian gets his big entrance in the Redcliffe church anyways, so everybody wins.

 

In fact, I liked him so much in it, that he upgraded to steady group member now (non-PC dagger rogue on Nightmare, oh micromanagement woe is me). Ser Barris is a giving the Templars a huge reputation & sympathy boost as far as I'm concerned; plus the leader of the Venatori mages is a far more believeable villain commander than that "loser" [sic] from Dragon Age 2 who stole Meredith's sword - even though she's bland in her own clichée way.

 

The "only" problem is, what is foreshadowed by Dorian in his introduction seems INCREDIBLY urgent, and it doesn't make sense to just check out what the Templars are up to simply because you can - while the lion's share of remaining magic users in southern Thedas are about to reinforce the ranks of Tevinter, and their master has found a way to alter the space-time-continuum, and already basically annexed one of -if not THE-  strategically most important stronghold in Ferelden.

 

What's funny is that if I hadn't tried siding with the Templars for the sake of it, I'd never have, with the unecessarily silly, cartoonishly evil introduction they're given at Val Royeaux. I was very delighted to find out BioWare was aware of themselves when I discovered they weren't "real" Templars after all, but then again, I wonder how many players ever even got to that realization?

[Korva]

I did not find the templar story at all compelling. Escaping the demon had potential, but lost all impact because I wasn't tempted by the scenarios shown me, which really should've been the point of showing them to me from the demon's perspective.

 

As I said, Envy doesn't want to tempt you, doesn't need to tempt you, or break you. It only needs to study you. "Tell me, 'Herald', in your mind. Tell me what you think! Tell me what you feel! Tell me what you see." That is part of what makes this sort of demon so unique and dangerous. It shows you something seductive and you are unmoved or able to resist? A desire demon would have lost at that point. Envy has learned something about you, and thus moved one step closer to being able to replace you.

 

Granted, they could have played this better, more urgently and in-depth, but to me it was still quite clear. An antagonist like this is almost wasted on an optional mission, I wish it had played a bigger role because it's actually one of the scariest things in the lore IMO.

 

Of course, the problem is that it's hard to write the sort of internal horror story that would really do Envy (or any demon, really) justice when the game is part of a genre in which every problem is solved and solvable by combat, many players don't feel threatened by or vulnerable to anything that doesn't have a red hitbox, and our characters are utterly untouchable on the mental/emotional side because there are no game mechanics that simulate stress, pain, exhaustion, temptation, confusion, sanity or fear (not to mention that such mechanics would be damn hard to do well).

[KaiserShep]

What's funny is that if I hadn't tried siding with the Templars for the sake of it, I'd never have, with the unecessarily silly, cartoonishly evil introduction they're given at Val Royeaux. I was very delighted to find out BioWare was aware of themselves when I discovered they weren't "real" Templars after all, but then again, I wonder how many players ever even got to that realization?

 

Yeah, Lord Seeker Potatoface and Ser Suckerpunch didn't do them any favors. Cassandra's insistence that Lucius is out of his gourd and there may be other Templars who disagree isn't the most compelling thing in the world.

[ThreeF]

I wonder how many people would still choose Templars if Barris didn't exist or always died at the end of the mission.

I still like the Envy sequence a bit more than the dungeon sequence, the in-your-head moment is actually kind of creepy without it turning in your typical B movie horror DA is so  fond of. I wish that that part of the mission was longer . And the way Cole is introduced is better imo than Dorian's.

 

One of the downside of Templar mission for me strangely enough is Fiona, when you fight  Templars you get a Behemoth who is much more impressive than the tiny Fiona. First pt with templars i only realized that it was Fiona after I killed her.  Very underwhelming.

[Hawklyn Starblade]

Barris died in my Templar runs, so i have no idea if he was awsome etc. Personaly i am partial to the mage storyline as i don't like walking away & leaving Redcliff occupied by the enemy.

[alschemid]

Not at all, choosing the templars was very satisfying experience for me, not so much for my character... being the inquisitor she will harshly question her own actions and motivations more often.

[songsmith2003]

Both possible futures were horrible. Sure, the future for the Templar version hasn't happened, but the demon shows what could happen when power was abused, particularly by a demon masquerading as the inquisitor. I much preferred Cole's intro in Champions to him showing up at the gate, whereas I really liked how much Champions Dorian cared about Roderick. I really felt his sadness when the old guy died.

 

And the mages gave me a few problems. One, why was it that the inquisitor only cared that Leliana sacrifices herself? The other two companions--who the inquisitor probably knows even better--also did so. Plus I had Varric with me and (as is typical whenever he's around) it bugs me no end that he doesn't freak out about the red lyrium.

 

Champions felt more horrific to me when you consider what actually happened to the templars, just how many of them were changed because they trusted their friends and commanders. Heck, I don't as a norm even like the templars, but I felt far more for them than I did the idiotic mages who sold themselves to Tevinter.

[In Exile]

Yeah, in the end, it's really Calpernia that makes it a bit harder. If it was always Samson or Calpernia regardless of which quest you did, then I would never pick the Templar mission ever again.

It's interesting you say that becuse I found Calpernia to be by far the most underwhelming part of the quest. Not that it wasn't good - just that the praise on the forum was so overwhelming that I think I built it up too much. I liked Calpernia when I eventually met her. I just found her quest a bit underwhelming, particularly the temple of Dumat.

[Steelcan]

I was pretty disappointed in the mage questline and found both the Templar recruitment and the later parts of the story, like Calpernia, Barris's side chain, and such to much more interesting