39 réponses à ce sujet

[Julmor]

My main Hawke has always been a mage. Basically because I like how it ties into the whole templar-mage conflict. I also prefer the Hawke-Carver dynamic to the Hawke-Bethany dynamic.

But in retrospect, its kinda hard to make sense of Hawke as a mage. He basically throws around fireballs in public, but noone EVER tries to capture/kill him for being an apostate. People dont even seem to acknowledge that he is an apostate. After resolving the Arishok issue it makes more sense (mainly because hed be very popular in Kirkwall by then), but in act 1-2 its really strange.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

[Obadiah]

It is quite true, but the lack of attention given to your mage team mates is as strange and out of place. I can only surmise that people in Kirkwall generally mind their own business? Maybe the Templars aren't too popular either.

[Icy Magebane]

This is why I've never liked playing as a mage in DA2.  It's great in DA:O and DA:I, but those protagonists have immunity to the normal rules governing mages... not only is Hawke a peasant with no political protection, the game is set in the most oppressive and strict environment that an apostate or Circle mage can possibly be in (uh... aside from Qunari lands, of course...)!  I actually played as a mage the first time through, but after a while, almost nothing in the game made any sense to me... now I stick with warrior or rogue.

[DeathScepter]

Within Dragon Age games, you can make arguments of all three classes for the PC. 

 

 

Pro Rogue for them:

 

DAO: Being Hunted by the Government while fighting Darkspawn and building an army. Rogues has the stealth and diplomat to "fit" in the feel of the story. 

 

DAO:A: Rebuilding Grey Wardens and dealing with politics of the city while searching for the Truth of new Darkspawn threat. Rogues can be good investigators and persuading people in joining the Grey Wardens, and dealing the politics.

 

DA2: Hawk is an good errand boy and deals politics. I will not be supposed that he and varric bribe a few templars to look the other way.

 

DAI: Politics again.

[kyles3]

To do this right would've required Mage-Hawke to have a significantly different story than Warrior- or Rogue-Hawke. Which would've been really cool, but of course there wasn't enough time to implement something that ambitious.

 

I love DA2 as it is, but given another couple years of development time it could've been a masterpiece.

[Current Future]

I love DA2 as it is, but given another couple years of development time it could've been a masterpiece.

 

I couldn't agree with this more.

 

I simply don't play mage Hawke because of Carver; I can't stand him.  

[Obadiah]

The story could have done it right if mage Hawke was more a weak rogue, with subtle magic augmenting his attacks. Really its only obvious when fireballs and such start being hurled.

[Icy Magebane]

The story could have done it right if mage Hawke was more a weak rogue, with subtle magic augmenting his attacks. Really its only obvious when fireballs and such start being hurled.

True, giving Hawke an "apostate" class with less flashy spells would have made more sense than trying to shoehorn a standard mage into the setting... not that this solves the problem of the mage companions, but it's a start.  Overall, I agree with kyles3 in that the entire apostate storyline should have been different from the basic plot, but I'm sure that would have required too much work to be considered practical... they had a really strict deadline for cranking the game out from what I can remember.

[vertigomez]

I just assumed it was a case of gameplay and story segregation, just like all those faceless Slenderman NPCs that don't run away screaming every time you're attacked by guardsman pretenders in the middle of the street. Like, in Act I mage Hawke is probably whacking people with their staff and using low-key magic and breaking out the murder knife every so often, but it's more fun for the player to see fireballs and chain lightning.

[Bardox9]

A couple of things to consider when trying to rationalize a free mage Hawk:

 

in Act 1. First, Hawk lives in low town. The guards have an extremely light presence there and the people that live in low town have a very "Mind your own business" way of living. Second, the first year of living in Kirkwall, Hawk has the Merc band or Smugglers silencing people (by bribe or threat) that might raise a stink over the fireball throwing mage in Low Town. Not surprising no one would go running to the guards much less the Templars.

 

In Act 2, Hawk is one of the wealthiest people in the city with ties to mercs/smugglers, he/she has friends in the city guard, and the Viscount owes him/her a tremendous debt for the safe return of his son. (granted the kid was not in any danger until the Viscount tried to "rescue" him, but still...) All and all he/she has been a boon to the city. So again we have plenty of reason for people to ignore the occasional fire ball or lightning bolt.

 

In Act 3, he's a full blown hero. Every noble owes their lives to this mage. What are you suppose to say? "Thanks for saving us, now kindly go to prison." Me thinks nooo. By this point Hawk is effectively untouchable. Mage or not.

 

Of course that's the heroic Hawk version of justifying it. There is always the not so nice version. You can say he/she has always been a blood mage using blood magic to warp peoples perception of him/her. Another reason no one ever says boo about it.

[ArcadiaGrey]

I think there's a scene where Varric tells Anders it's getting harder and harder to keep the Templars away from him, so I assume he, Aveline, and then later the Viscount, are bribing/warning off the authorities.

[vbibbi]

I would have loved if there were class specific skill trees for Hawke in each class, like the companion specializations. Mage Hawke would have the apostate class, with emphasis on subtle spells and maybe using standard weapons instead of a staff. Not to the proficiency of an arcane warrior, and Hawke wouldn't be able to wear heavy armor.

And if I could really get my way, each act the specialization would change, building on its roots and reflecting Hawke's rising social status.

[Natureguy85]

I couldn't agree with this more.

 

I simply don't play mage Hawke because of Carver; I can't stand him.  

 

That's because the time skips force "tell" rather than "show." So all we hear from Carver is whining about a rivalry we never get to see established. Had Act 1 been he first year in Kirkwall like it should have been, we could have seen this happen considering the two would be working together. Then we could actually see Carver have to live in Hawke's shadow. It would tie well into the idea of mages too. As it stands, Warrior, Rogue, and Mage are really just different play styles for the player. But they could have accented how big a deal magic is. Carver would have to live with the fact that no matter how good he gets at swinging that sword around, he can't cast fireballs or heal wounds. Carver, more than any other character, got shafted by the game design.

[springacres]

That's because the time skips force "tell" rather than "show." So all we hear from Carver is whining about a rivalry we never get to see established. Had Act 1 been he first year in Kirkwall like it should have been, we could have seen this happen considering the two would be working together. Then we could actually see Carver have to live in Hawke's shadow. It would tie well into the idea of mages too. As it stands, Warrior, Rogue, and Mage are really just different play styles for the player. But they could have accented how big a deal magic is. Carver would have to live with the fact that no matter how good he gets at swinging that sword around, he can't cast fireballs or heal wounds. Carver, more than any other character, got shafted by the game design.

I don't know, I think Fenris and Anders got shafted pretty good, too.  And Bethany got just as shafted for warrior/rogue Hawkes, although her relationship with her older sibling is a bit easier to understand.  But you're right, it really hurts Carver's character that you don't get to see him living in Hawke's shadow for that first year in Kirkwall.

 

As to whether or not mage!Hawke makes sense, well... I think Aveline says it best.  "Does anything, in this mess?"

[Illegitimus]

As I've commented elsewhere, I'm startled by how much sense my pole-axe swinging muscleman in Blood Dragon armour with the brand new face makes as a mage who goes un-noticed until it's too late.  

[Natureguy85]

I don't know, I think Fenris and Anders got shafted pretty good, too.  And Bethany got just as shafted for warrior/rogue Hawkes, although her relationship with her older sibling is a bit easier to understand.  But you're right, it really hurts Carver's character that you don't get to see him living in Hawke's shadow for that first year in Kirkwall.

 

As to whether or not mage!Hawke makes sense, well... I think Aveline says it best.  "Does anything, in this mess?"

 

Fenris just isn't developed beyond "I hate mages" so he is dull until his master shows back up.

 

Anders is screwed by his bonding with Justice happening between games rather than along the way and us never really getting deep into how it changed him. It's like Liara in Mass Effect 2 without Lair of the Shadow Broker. A character changed because of events you don't see and you get barebones exposition on it.

 

As for Bethany, male Hawke is more like a protective older brother and female Hawke is either the same or a partner. Bethany looks up to Hawke, while Carver is more competitive. Now that I think about it, one is Friend and the other is Rival, much how Kaidan was Paragon and Ashley more Renegade in Mass Effect. This makes the decision to kill one sibling odd if they wanted to highlight the two sides of their new system.

[vbibbi]

For as silly as the gifts in DAO could be, they were able to help characterize the NPCs a bit, which is something that the subsequent games lost. It took me a few playthroughs before I realized that the water stained portrait or picture of a goose girl were intended for Sten. Small touches like that really add to the character, and it doesn't take a lot of resources.

 

I do like how the NPC quests and gifts were handled in DA2, building in each act, but I wish there were more opportunities to learn small aspects about the character, like if we found out that Fenris actually likes the Minrathous style of weapons/armor/whatever, and he doesn't want to admit to enjoying anything about his homeland, but can be persuaded/forced to accept a gift that reminds him of home. There weren't enough gifts in DA2 to help flesh out the characters, but I liked the personalization that we did get. Except for Sebastian. Really? The family longbow is his only gift? lame.

[straykat]

For as silly as the gifts in DAO could be, they were able to help characterize the NPCs a bit, which is something that the subsequent games lost. It took me a few playthroughs before I realized that the water stained portrait or picture of a goose girl were intended for Sten. Small touches like that really add to the character, and it doesn't take a lot of resources.

 

I do like how the NPC quests and gifts were handled in DA2, building in each act, but I wish there were more opportunities to learn small aspects about the character, like if we found out that Fenris actually likes the Minrathous style of weapons/armor/whatever, and he doesn't want to admit to enjoying anything about his homeland, but can be persuaded/forced to accept a gift that reminds him of home. There weren't enough gifts in DA2 to help flesh out the characters, but I liked the personalization that we did get. Except for Sebastian. Really? The family longbow is his only gift? lame.

 

Well, he's barely a companion anyways. Act 2 and onwards. He isn't even in Cassandra's book portrait of the team I don't know how to include him in all of my games..

[Qun00]

Meredith does eventually acknowledge it and says that Hawke is only protected by his title.

[vbibbi]

Well, he's barely a companion anyways. Act 2 and onwards. He isn't even in Cassandra's book portrait of the team I don't know how to include him in all of my games..

Well he is apparently Nathaniel 2.0, so he's mostly recycled material anyway.

[straykat]

Well he is apparently Nathaniel 2.0, so he's mostly recycled material anyway.

 

Nathaniel has got the broody thing going for him. Even Oghren gets the hots.

[GoldenGail3]

Mage Hawke? I love Mage Hawke; I love Carver! Yeah, Carver is one of the reasons I played and finished DA2 three times.

[Catilina]

Mage Hawke? I love Mage Hawke; I love Carver! Yeah, Carver is one of the reasons I played and finished DA2 three times.

Carver is a totally idiot (as Fenris and Anders) But: better than the „good girl” Bethany.

 

Mage is good choice

[GoldenGail3]

Carver is a totally idiot (as Fenris and Anders) But: better than the „good girl” Bethany.
 
Mage is good choice

Lol. Wow, new users are the best.

[Catilina]

Lol. Wow, new users are the best.

You are too kind