134 réponses à ce sujet

[Setiweb]

Where is The Maker?

EA HQ.  Penthouse office.  Big chair.  Fragrant cigar.

[o Ventus]

 

Were I an omnipotent deity and a group of mortals had the gall to try and break into my realm, I wouldn't dignify their efforts by appearing before them.

I think it would be pretty boring being omnipotent.

 

If I were the Maker, I would turn invisible right as Corypheus entered the City, just to f**k with him. 

 

"I looked upon the throne of the gods and it was empty!"

 

the Maker: 

 

[Herr Uhl]

 

He not only created Thedas, he also created that moon that everone sees in the night sky

 

He created two moons. Our gods are such slouches.

[o Ventus]

He created two moons. Our gods are such slouches.

Or the Maker is really bad at counting.

[thats1evildude]

Sleeping on a pile of money besides many beautiful ladies.

[Br3admax]

Is the fact that bananas, spoons, and cheese can be weapons not proof enough that the Maker is dead?

[Bad King]

The Maker gets killed by the Inquisitor during 'Here Lies the Abyss'.

[o Ventus]

Is the fact that bananas, spoons, and cheese can be weapons not proof enough that the Maker is dead?

But bananas, spoons, and cheese all fit perfectly into the human hand.

 

That must mean that the bananas, spoons, and cheese were made by the Maker himself! And new bananas, spoons, and cheese are made everyday, so the Maker must be busy!

[Killdren88]

In the mind of the person who made him up.

[Blade_RJ]

I heard a banter once where cole and solas were discussing religion and the need for faith, i think it was quest related, and solas replied something like people need to assertain their religion to have faith, to what coles puzzles replies, "why ? the maker already left"

 

So he is on vacation somewhere else.

[Potatoespotate]

David Gaider has said that he never plans to reveal whether or not the maker is real, but of course EA could always want that to happen and he'd be forced to reveal it in one of the next games

[Blade_RJ]

David Gaider has said that he never plans to reveal whether or not the maker is real, but of course EA could always want that to happen and he'd be forced to reveal it in one of the next games

 

Bioware also said the ogb was done, and they would never revisit the plot "-too many variables,too many variables !!".....and we have kieran, soo....

[Ash Wind]

He left... he's working the Drive-Thru at a Hardee's in Boise, Idaho

[catabuca]

 Honestly do you have another explanation for the blights and the old gods being buried in underground prisons?

yes it is said that some in thedas believe that those dragons hibernate that's why they stay hidden, however, it doesn't explain the urge the darkspawn has for searching them, the song they hear etc

plus cory did say there was a seat, but it was empty

 

Yes, there is another explanation and it's one I find very convincing: the old gods are the forgotten ones, which are either separate entities to or aspects of the 7 elven gods that Solas imprisoned/banished/sealed away, something he is now trying to rectify. He sealed away Arlathan (the golden city, likely the seat of Elgar'nan, since each elven god had their own temple and around that temple was a sprawling, impressive city - Elgar'nan's would have been the largest since he was head of the pantheon) because it was blighted (the reason the gods were warring was because they were infected with the taint, and Arlathan was infected as well). This is why Cory says the city was already black. Others saw it as gold because things in the fade are open to suggestion - they can take on aspects of what we want to see, and as far as Chantry religion goes the seat of the maker was gold, and so that's what they would have seen. Once news of Cory's shenanigans spreads, everyone now sees Arlathan as it always has been - black, tainted, corrupted. Of course the throne is empty, Elgar'nan is sealed away somewhere else, most likely separated from an aspect of himself, his dragon aspect, which is sealed in the abyss/void, and commonly understood to be one of the old gods, the dragons. Further to this line of thinking, when the darkspawn reach them they don't then taint them, they are already tainted; the darkspawn are drawn to them because they are tainted and powerful - Solas seeks a way to cure that taint and reunite the two aspects of the elven gods and release them - this is why he hates the Grey Wardens, they're killing the dragon aspects.

 

So who is the maker? The maker as Andrastian religion now holds it, is a combination of various myths and real events that have been combined over history and reinterpreted to suit a particular ideology.

 

So, more specifically, who spoke to Andraste? I have 2 (maybe 3) theories:

 

1) we know Mythal spoke to Flemeth, she sought her out and became part of her -- some theories have posited that Andraste was Flemeth, I've never favoured that theory, BUT if we take it to be true (and indeed there was a mosaic of Mythal in the Temple of Sacred Ashes) then the 'maker' was Mythal speaking to Andraste/Flemeth. Does that mean Mythal is the maker as the Chantry understand the concept? No. It means that the religion interpreted what happened to Andraste and shaped it to fit their ideology.

 

2) Andraste was spoken to by June, the craftsman god of the elven pantheon. Not much is known of June, and indeed a mosaic codex in the Temple of Mythal suggests that he wasn't talked about much because he just wasn't interesting enough, as so often happens. He's depicted with various tools. He 'makes' things. Somehow the aspect of him that exists somewhere in the Fade (or wherever it is that the non-dragon aspect of the gods are imprisoned) managed to reach out and communicate with Andraste, and she interpreted what she heard from him as being the 'maker' of everything, and thus the name 'the maker' came into common parlance. Does that mean June is the maker as the Chantry understand the concept? No. It means the religion interpreted what happened to Andraste and shaped it to fit their ideology.

 

3) Andraste was spoken to by Elgar'nan, the person whose throne sits in Arlathan (the golden/black city). Does that mean Elgar'nan is the maker as the Chantry understand the concept? No. It means that the religion interpreted what happened to Andraste and shaped it to fit their ideology.

 

Regardless of the veracity of my theories above (many of which can be supported through interpretations of lore we've learned through all 3 games), one of the things that the whole series, and particularly DA:I, drives home is that EVERYTHING we take as received wisdom is open to interpretation. At its heart, the Dragon Age series is about the transmission of history, and the way events become distorted, retold, interpreted, altered, warped, over generations, over centuries, depending on the biases and ideologies of those doing the telling. Indeed, this mirrors our own understanding of history: history belongs to the victors. 'Truth' belongs to power. Uncovering objective truth means understanding and dismantling the 'truth' we are sold by those who can control the message.

 

I say this is particularly evident in DA:I because we have so many wonderful things like: Mother Giselle talking directly to us about how she is aware that much in the Chant of Light is down to personal interpretation; we have the astrarium descriptions talking about how the way constellations are interpreted has changed over time depending on who is doing the interpreting and what their world looks like at any given time; same for the mosaics and the way some of them have been altered to strike out some elements from history; we have the revelation about the Red Crossing, which didn't go down the way received wisdom has it; we have the revelation about what the elven gods were (just people, albeit far more powerful than any we've encountered in modern times); following on from that, we have the revelation that Dalish history is nothing like what they have imagined it to be, but they have interpreted and furthered the narrative that suits them best; we have the revelation that Tevinter didn't crush ancient elven society - they did it to themselves; somewhat amusingly but absolutely KEY to all of this is the very last codex entry in the notes section: "What is Green?" - a humorous codex entry, but it explains all we need to know about this: what I say is green might be what you say is red, because we each have different experiences and 'truths' that have led us to understand the world in a particular way, which is precisely the point when trying to uncover the 'truth' behind people, events, belief systems, etc. There are plenty more examples where we're asked to think about how 'truth' is interpreted and parsed depending on who is doing the reading, I've barely scratched the surface.

 

So yes, I do have other explanations for the blight and the old gods being imprisoned. Any number of us could cite any number of codex entries and snippets of lore to come up with convincing truths about it, just as the Chantry has done. One thing is clear though: we are not to take Chantry doctrine at face value. Not at all. It is a story, like any other. Uncovering the 'truth' behind it will likely dismantle it all.

[Ashagar]

Regardless when you take away andrastian/chantry teaching the maker is a creator deity of the ancient northern Neromenian tribes and who the later Tevinter Imperium belived created the world and the golden city was belived to be his throne. This is at this moment all we really know about him beyond chantry teachings until we go to Tevinter and find out more about what pre-andrastian beliefs about him were. Bonus if we find some non-Andrastian maker worshipers still surviving in remote locations.

[xJLxKing]

The maker is in a way the devs, or at the very least a aspect of him

[zambingo]

Could also be a Dogma situation...

What if the Maker was one of us?[/sings]

The Maker walks Thedas, enjoying It's creation from the mortal perspective, the villain traps It there in mortal form or whatever. The Throne is empty. The barriers between realms weakened by the prolonged absence, the Magisters journey into "Heaven". The divine realm reacts like a body invaded by a virus, defenses are initiated. Havoc ensues, blood is spilled, everything is Touched. The Magisters fight back, some flee, bringing with them the Blight born their intrusion.

[DarkAmaranth1966]

Maker, Elven Gods, Old Tevinter Gods, Allah, Jehova, Great Spirit, Zeus, etc... if you believe in them, they are real, if not, they are the imaginings of others.

[catabuca]

Regardless when you take away andrastian/chantry teaching the maker is a creator deity of the ancient northern Neromenian tribes and who the later Tevinter Imperium belived created the world and the golden city was belived to be his throne. This is at this moment all we really know about him beyond chantry teachings until we go to Tevinter and find out more about what pre-andrastian beliefs about him were. Bonus if we find some non-Andrastian maker worshipers still surviving in remote locations.

 

Of course, just because the Neromenians worshipped what would end up being known as the Maker doesn't mean that he actually existed. We don't know why they held that belief, whether it was indeed pure faith or whether it was based on something tangible that they could see and prove. 

[Ashagar]

Of course, just because the Neromenians worshipped what would end up being known as the Maker doesn't mean that he actually existed. We don't know why they held that belief, whether it was indeed pure faith or whether it was based on something tangible that they could see and prove. 

 

True but one of the things that going to Tevinter will provide is more opportunities to find out about those ancient beliefs, from a academic sense it would be interesting to see how those beliefs compare to modern beliefs. I mean we learned more about the ancient elves, I'd like to learn more about the beliefs of the ancient humans before old gods and the chantry came into play and if possible more about the ancient dwarves .

 

That the maker is foretold to return by that stone seer is enough that he exists at least for me, especially as its has been shown several times that her prophesies are true ones, she foresaw what Corypheus was going to do back in witchhunt after all.

[X Equestris]

Of course, just because the Neromenians worshipped what would end up being known as the Maker doesn't mean that he actually existed. We don't know why they held that belief, whether it was indeed pure faith or whether it was based on something tangible that they could see and prove.

That is true, but it does reinforce the Chantry's statement that humanity turned away from the Maker to worship the Old Gods.

[BioWareM0d13]

In the mind of the person who made him up.

 

The Maker might exist. It is interesting that the Dread Wolf (a.k.a. Solas) or Mythal (a.k.a. Flemeth) never state that he doesn't exist.

 

My guess though is that if he does exist, he's not how the Andrastians imagine him just as the Elven gods were revealed to be quite different from the Dalish myths.

[xJLxKing]

That is true, but it does reinforce the Chantry's statement that humanity turned away from the Maker to worship the Old Gods.

thats not the oldest religion though

[X Equestris]

thats not the oldest religion though

Worship of a creator God was the religion brought by the Neromenians from across the sea. It does appear that it precedes at least most other human religions.