The Maker is actually Sheogorath on one of his vacations. Be thankful he hasn't come back yet, Thedas has enough crazy **** going on as it is 
P.S. On the serious note though, The Maker is BioWare. They can't reveal themselves cuz it would break the 4th wall.
P.P.S. Seriously though, it's a made up diety and you should better believe in the elven pantheon, those guys can turn into dragons at will and tear down the Veil with their gimmicks.
It might be an obviously answered question, but where IS the Maker? Cory says the seat is empty.
Is he lying? Or no?
Ok here I go, probably going to ruffle some feathers with this one. The Maker to me in DA is supposed to be Thedas' version of God for us. Now before I propose my theory - let's look at some other "Gods". Andraste - human once, ascended supposedly - became the Maker's bride. Old Gods/Elven Gods - supposedly just people of power that were worshipped as Gods. Sensing a theme here?
Now you have the inquisitor. The Herald of Andraste! You of course learn that it wasn't Andraste that saved you, but you can still believe it was divine intervention from Andraste or the Maker in the story, and even better you can convince everyone else this is true as well. You can even talk to Morrigan about using the anchor to break into the Black City yourself and become a God if it was possible. So yet another normal human person becoming a God.
Therefore, I present that there is no Maker, never was a Maker or rather he was just a person. It was a well written story that converted people from the old Gods much like the Bible. As for the Black City? Well there are a number of explanations. The fade is supposed to mirror the real world, so there must be some place in the real world where that place exists - something like Sky Hold, heck maybe it is even Sky Hold - now that'd be a twist.
@Poledo: Interesting theory. I think the Black City is Arlathan, black due to the fact that it's empty etc. Destroyed by in-fighting by it's own people and consumed by the fade for safe keeping. I have a heap of theories on the world of Thedas starting from DA:O going all the way through DA:I and beyond. I'll just have to wait and see if I'm at all right.
That does not follow. There are countless things that happen with no intelligent entity being involved (since not everything is possessed by a spirit), so why is the hypothesis that "a god did it" suddenly to be preferred for those things we can't yet explain? That makes no sense. An additional problem is that a god really explains nothing. You will continue to question: "who made the god" and "how did they do it" and if your answers are "the god is eternal" and "they willed it into existence", well, I can claim the state of things that needs to be explained "just is that way" with equal justification.
(Oh, and btw.: I could create a world like Thedas within an SF scenario, with no one within it being any the wiser about which kind of world they live in, including perfectly valid scientific explanations for everything, even though the technology would still be beyond that of the present real world. The creator of that world would be akin to the Maker, and yet no one within the world would be in any way justified to prefer the explanation "a god did it" to any other).
No? And yet many here claim the only reason the veil exists is because Solas/Fen'Harel put it there. This is no different to "a god did it". Yet like you say there are countless things happening with no intelligent entity being involved. In the case of Thedas, Dwarves exist, who are said to not be created by The Maker.
I personally do not believe that The Maker of DA lore is a god who created everything type god (Dwarves are proof of this). I do think however they exist in the DA world and I'm starting to think they are responsible for magic of Thedas.
In the case of your own world, sure but that is the characterisations of your world's inhabitance. You defined that world by saying no one believes, Gaider defined Thedas by saying most people do.
Ok here I go, probably going to ruffle some feathers with this one. The Maker to me in DA is supposed to be Thedas' version of God for us. Now before I propose my theory - let's look at some other "Gods". Andraste - human once, ascended supposedly - became the Maker's bride. Old Gods/Elven Gods - supposedly just people of power that were worshipped as Gods. Sensing a theme here?
Now you have the inquisitor. The Herald of Andraste! You of course learn that it wasn't Andraste that saved you, but you can still believe it was divine intervention from Andraste or the Maker in the story, and even better you can convince everyone else this is true as well. You can even talk to Morrigan about using the anchor to break into the Black City yourself and become a God if it was possible. So yet another normal human person becoming a God.
Therefore, I present that there is no Maker, never was a Maker or rather he was just a person. It was a well written story that converted people from the old Gods much like the Bible. As for the Black City? Well there are a number of explanations. The fade is supposed to mirror the real world, so there must be some place in the real world where that place exists - something like Sky Hold, heck maybe it is even Sky Hold - now that'd be a twist.
The Tevinter believe that Andraste was a prophet but they certainly don't believe she was the maker's bride and even the chantry doesn't claim she is a god. As for the maker himself he was a pre-existing deity that the Northern Neromenian tribes who became the Tevinter worshiped before they started worshiping the old gods. The later Tevinter Imperium continued to believe in his existence believing he created the world and the golden city was his seat but didn't worship him.
It seems to me in a world where spirits and magic both exist and the souls of the dead pass beyond the fade to someplace unknown(something justice confirmed in Awakening as I recall) who can say what does and does not exist.
@Poledo: Interesting theory. I think the Black City is Arlathan, black due to the fact that it's empty etc. Destroyed by in-fighting by it's own people and consumed by the fade for safe keeping. I have a heap of theories on the world of Thedas starting from DA:O going all the way through DA:I and beyond. I'll just have to wait and see if I'm at all right.
I think it's Arlathan as well, but black because it's tainted. It's the blackened heart of Arlathan.
I believe the fighting was due to corruption by the taint (we know it sent Andruil into madness), or it was used as a weapon during fighting that was caused by something else (we know they used to fight amongst themselves quite a bit; we know that Andruil fashioned weapons presumably from red lyrium - her armour of the void).
I believe Solas (perhaps aided by Mythal in part before she was killed, or maybe by her spirit after she was killed) took drastic action to prevent the fighting from becoming far, far worse, and to prevent more deaths of his brethren. He sealed them away - along with Arlathan although not necessarily in the same physical location as the city - with a view to almost 'freezing' the status quo, either out of desperation or while he intended to search for a solution (perhaps a cure for the taint, or something else).*
So, perhaps the Golden City that people saw in the Fade before the magisters went there was never an actual structure, but a representation of a mixture of different beliefs and understandings that got parsed by the faith of the time - Andrastian religion - but originally had been a reflection of Arlathan, the largest and most impressive of the elven cities (and likely the seat of Elgar'nan). We know the Fade is shaped by the memories and interpretations of those who dream and visit it. When Cory et al do go into the Fade in their physical forms - the first recorded time this had ever happened - they expect to see the Golden City because that's what the collective belief system of the entire continent has shaped there, but what they actually encounter is the sealed away blackened, tainted city of Arlathan. They have no reason to assume anything other than this is the fabled Golden City of Andrastian religion but turned black. They become tainted by it themselves, in such a way that turns them into what we commonly understand now as the first darkspawn. On their return, twisted and confused by what they've seen, the rest of the world scrambles to make sense of it. Andrastian religious belief does the only thing it can - which is exactly what Cory et al did as well: they interpret what they saw as a blackened Golden City, and the rest is history.
*We also know that the people commonly thought of as elven gods could take on a dragon form. It's interesting, then, that the Old Gods are dragons, and that there are seven of them (just as there are seven elven 'gods' sealed away by Solas). However, the elven 'gods' were supposed to have been sealed away in the heavens, while it was the Forgotten Ones who were sealed in the 'abyss' (we know the Forgotten Ones used to dwell in the void/abyss, and the story goes that Fen'harel told them to go dwell there a while, which is when he 'tricked' them). I've seen a convincing theory that relies on the concept of duality that we learn much of in the Temple of Mythal (that each of the elven 'gods' had a darker side to them - Mythal being the god of justice, but also of vengeance, for example). The theory goes that Solas separated somehow the two opposing sides of the elven gods, the good and the bad, the pure and the tainted, and sealed them away independently. That bad, tainted aspect took with it their ability to transform into dragons, and as such is imprisoned as the dragons we understand today, the ones that become archdemons and start blights. I'd go further and suggest that therefore they are already tainted, and Thedas' understanding of how a blight starts is as misinformed as so many other things they believe they know. The darkspawn are drawn to the dragons because they are massive, powerful loci of the taint, far stronger than anything else. Once they reach them and set them free, a blight begins because they follow it above ground and wreak havoc. The dragons remember their war, but little else of who they once were, and so they blindly go rampaging, searching for destruction, with a bloodlust and nowhere to direct it other than at whatever crosses their path. The darkspawn follow. Once the dragon is slain, the darkspawn trickle back down to the abyss/void/underground again, drawn to the next largest, powerful locus of the taint. Once all the dragons are slain (if that ever happens) that doesn't mean there will be no more blights - it just means a decentralised spread of the remaining darkspawn as they have no powerful focus to drive them.
Of course, there is a problem with this theory. Andruil's mosaic said she started hunting the Forgotten Ones for sport. If they were in fact the elven gods (an aspect of them) this could mean a couple of things: she was hunting the other elven gods; or the two aspects of the gods could be separate entities, perhaps as we understand mortal bodies and spirits before they join and after they join, that could come together and separate at will. Either fits with the theory above. However, it also raises another possibility: they were always separate entities, perhaps all were at one point seen as elven gods, but they went down a different path, maybe favouring their dragon forms, and as such ancient elves wrote them out of their history and over time they became interpreted as something else. If this was a war between the elven gods and the Forgotten Ones, Solas' actions could still have been the same. I would suggest they were all still tainted, which is either the reason they warred or a result of their warring, and his sealing them away separately was still a way of 'freezing' what was happening so as to stop it devolving further. The first theory, that the Forgotten Ones were aspects of the elven gods, helps us make sense of why Flemeth/Mythal would want the soul of the Old God -- if her and Solas' plan is to find a way to fix their separation and fix their taint, they'll want to have all parts of the puzzle to Humpty Dumpty them back together again.
*ahem* But yes, the Black City is Arlathan, afaic.
No? And yet many here claim the only reason the veil exists is because Solas/Fen'Harel put it there. This is no different to "a god did it".
Neither do I believe that but this is, in fact, *extremely* different. It couldn't be more different, in fact, since we do know that Solas exists and that he has powers beyond most mages.
Note that even here, though, there is a significant difference between "He exists and has the power (assuming that he has it for the sake of the argument), so he could've done it", and "he actually did it". About most gods we don't know even enough to claim the former.
There's an interesting little bit of dialogue in the game, I forget where, when or by whom - about how curious it is that we're far more likely to ascribe godhood to something we cannot see, and as soon as it's made flesh we call it just a person.
That very thing is happening in this thread. Oh, well we know Solas isn't really a god, because he's a person we can see and touch, clearly just a very powerful mage or something along those lines. But the Maker? Oh, well we can't see him, so he must be a proper god, in the whole religious creation sense.
Cory said that he saw the throne and it was empty.. to me it sounds more like "he left" than "he doesnt exist". You know.. that throne didnt make itself 
Cory said that he saw the throne and it was empty.. to me it sounds more like "he left" than "he doesnt exist". You know.. that throne didnt make itself
And does it have to be 'the seat of the Maker'? Or was it perhaps interpreted as such because of the way the fade shapes itself depending on the beliefs and understanding of those who visit it?
And what is the one exception to that rule? The Black City. It is always there no matter what. It is always out of reach unless a person is bodily or forcibly drawn into the Fade. It appears to exist independent of the dreams of mortals and manipulation of spirits.And does it have to be 'the seat of the Maker'? Or was it perhaps interpreted as such because of the way the fade shapes itself depending on the beliefs and understanding of those who visit it?
Might not exist. May have left like the chantry says, and won't come back until he hears singing. Who can say?
And does it have to be 'the seat of the Maker'? Or was it perhaps interpreted as such because of the way the fade shapes itself depending on the beliefs and understanding of those who visit it?
Well the ancient Tevinter Imperium and the Neromenian tribes before them did believe the golden city was the seat of the maker and that he created the world. I am not sure what they really expected to find when they breached the golden city given that even when he was actively worshiped before they started worshiping the old gods the maker apparently wasn't one to answer prayers like the elven gods did or the old gods did before going silent.
Ok here I go, probably going to ruffle some feathers with this one. The Maker to me in DA is supposed to be Thedas' version of God for us. Now before I
In a far corner of the universe clutching himself and laughing with glee
I dont know why many seems to be sure that the Maker is the Thedas version of God for us.Maker of Thedas is a male and has abandoned his creation he is the supposed creator of the world and Thedas and not of the entire Universe.God worshipped from the Monotheistic religion is not male no one believe that he abandoned it's Creation also is the supposed creator of the entire Universe.
Well deists like many of the founders of the US actually believe that God created the world then sort of ... left us to our own devices. Also in Biblical canon, God is known to turn from the world numerous times (the Flood, Sodom & Gomorrah, everytime he's like "I'm so done" with the Israelites) only to return to us because of His mercy/compassion/love. Biblical canon also states that Satan, not God, is the Prince of this world. The Maker is basically a DA version of God who permanently rage quits the world because humans are stupid.
Andraste is this weird Mary/Jesus/Joan of Arc figure that I try not to think too deeply about.
The Maker is the equivalent of 'The One Above All' in the Marvel Universe. The being responsible for all things, even Eternity itself. You think Coryface can comprehend such a being's existence so much so he claims a thrown was empty?
Also, I'll add I played that scene like 2 days ago, he says 'Seat of the Gods' plural. He's talking about the Old Gods, who were never there.
I would say he's morel ike Eru. Nothing happens without his will. if the Maker is real, he will never show up ever again. I personally believe that Andraste was just an immensly powerful wizard like Flemeth. If the Maker was her husband she would never die.
Corypheus suffers from a crise of existence. He lost his reason to exist when Duamt died and blame everything on the Old Gods. Heck, he even prays for Dumat before he dies.
The Chantry has been half right most of the time...however it seems Bioware wants us to guess at his existence
Someone created those spirits that became Evanuris, someone gave them their nature..
The Maker is the equivalent of 'The One Above All' in the Marvel Universe. The being responsible for all things, even Eternity itself. You think Coryface can comprehend such a being's existence so much so he claims a thrown was empty?
Also, I'll add I played that scene like 2 days ago, he says 'Seat of the Gods' plural. He's talking about the Old Gods, who were never there.
I would say he's morel ike Eru. Nothing happens without his will. if the Maker is real, he will never show up ever again. I personally believe that Andraste was just an immensly powerful wizard like Flemeth. If the Maker was her husband she would never die.
Corypheus suffers from a crise of existence. He lost his reason to exist when Duamt died and blame everything on the Old Gods. Heck, he even prays for Dumat before he dies.
He grew tired of playing in his medieval fantasy universe so he went and created the Mass Effect universe. Sadly, he abandoned that one too after he decided he screwed up the ending.
The maker is totes the leviathans. **** we are all doomed. Or maybe its the Evanuris are the leviathans and created the maker, but he threw a temper tantrum and tried to kill them. So that would make him the God child. **** definitely doomed.
There's an interesting little bit of dialogue in the game, I forget where, when or by whom - about how curious it is that we're far more likely to ascribe godhood to something we cannot see, and as soon as it's made flesh we call it just a person.
That very thing is happening in this thread. Oh, well we know Solas isn't really a god, because he's a person we can see and touch, clearly just a very powerful mage or something along those lines. But the Maker? Oh, well we can't see him, so he must be a proper god, in the whole religious creation sense.
I know right? I personally believe the idea of "God" really just means "Something or someone that could do things that I don't understand". Of course now we have a hard time imagining anything as a God if we can see it because we have so much knowledge at our disposal that we are likely to question any such being. We as players frame things according to our own world so it isn't surprising that people are saying that Solas and the Evanuris aren't Gods to most people. Then again I'm totes thinking the EVanuris and the Maker (if they/it exists) are aliens. Perhaps not in the proper way we would think of them, but I don't think they are from Thedas.
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