56 réponses à ce sujet

[Bayonet Hipshot]

I'm curious: what do you use wall of ice for?  So much of the game takes place out in the open where it's not much of an obstacle to enemies.  I know it can be used for ice armor, which is ok but not spectacular.  Is there something else I'm missing?

 

Wall of Ice can be used to block projectiles and then there is the Ice Armor thing. 

 

 

ok, now i see.. I use it alot on single target and clearly strikes only once.. but with two or more, i could see it bouncing back n forth.. Thats not exactly what i considered to be multiple strikes. But now i understand what u meant

 

That is part of the problem with Chain Lightning. There are very few occasions where there a huge numbers of clustered enemies who stay close to each other all the time. 

 

If you want an AOE damage dealer for large enemy groups...Upgraded Static Cage, upgraded Fire Mine, and upgraded Wall of Flames are far better. 

 

 

The 8 slot limit is a really limiting mechanic that makes your skill selection rather dull because there are so many 'staple' spells too good to pass up for any build.

 

One of the biggest issue with the combat system in DAI. But hey, according to developers, this is strategy & tactics and 8x4=32 and that is enough. 

 

 

Immolate+
Winters grasp+
Frost step+
Chain lightning+
Energy barrage
Veilstrike+
StoneFist+
Mark of the Rift

 

Veilstrike has very little utility and you can enchant your weapons to proc it if you wish. Rift Mage is Dragon Age's version of Adept. Pull of the Abyss is Singularity, Stonefist is Warp and Veilstrike is Slam. Slam has never been a good power, especially when you compared it to Warp and Singularity.

 

 

Isn't Gathering Storm still broken (it's completely non-functional)?

Upgraded Chain Lightning is definitely worth it given how many ways there are for mages to get enemies to clump. The shocked status causes AoE damage to accumulate (though the window is really small), and the way it bounces keeps it effective even against pairs of enemies.

Static Cage is situational (used to control the battlefield and set up combos), and Energy Barrage is best saved for detonations. For a lightning mage, Chain Lightning is an incredibly useful general AoE, though it can be outclassed by spells from the other trees.

 

Gathering Storm works but not in a way you might expect it to. The cooldown reduction triggers after every basic attack. The thing is, the game counts a specific set of staff twerking movement as one basic attack. Based on the game's definition, a staff basic attack is :- Swipe left, swipe right, strike the ground. You staff have to go through one complete cycle to be considered as a basic attack. 

 

The fault here with the passives is that the tooltip descriptions are terrible.

 

Stormbringer works as well but it procs slowly and rarely.

 

So this means the passives on the left side of the Storm tree is crap. One the right Conductive Current actually does something. 

 

I rarely play a one element mage, I hate being a one trick pony which means I include spells from other schools of magic. This then makes the whole point of taking Chain Lightning moot. 

 

 

Static Cage is terrific for single targets, too. This is my current CC of choice, though there are several (ie; Rift Mage, KE, Ice,Storm). I prefer to design for self sufficiency in case I need to change the party dynamics, so I supply my own Barrier.

 

Self sufficiency. That word is the foundation of my game builds almost all the time. I design my characters so that they can handle things on their own without needing a mandatory specific squad member with them. This allows me to practically randomize my party selection.

 

For Rift Mage, this is my setup (all abilities are upgraded. Veilstrike becomes obsolete with upgraded Stonefist, Pull of the Abyss and Veilstrike masterworks)

1. Stonefist
2. Pull of the Abyss
3. Energy Barrage
4. Fire Mine
5. Fade Step 
6. Static Cage
7. Barrier
8. Mark of the Rift

For Knight Enchanter, this is my setup (all abilities are upgraded. IMO, Fade Step is overkill for Knight Enchanters and they already have Fade Cloak to mitigate damage))

1. Spirit Blade
2. Fade Cloak
3. Energy Barrage
4. Immolate
5. Winter's Grasp
6. Static Cage
7. Barrier
8. Resurgence

For Necromancer, this is my setup (all abilities are upgraded, DoT & Panic & CC ftw)

1. Horror
2. Spirit Mark 
3. Walking Bomb
4. Energy Barrage
5. Wall of Fire
6. Fade Step
7. Static Cage
8. Barrier

[Exalus]

I use the following for Solas:

1. Wall of fire
2. Pull of the Abyss
3. vielstrike
4. Fire Mine
5. Immolate
6. chain lightning or stone fist
7. Barrier
8. winter's grasp per skyhold then something else post skyhold

 

I never needed fadestep even pre skyhold. tank agro is so easy in this game and the enemy ai does not make an effort to target your mages.

[JaegerBane]

That is part of the problem with Chain Lightning. There are very few occasions where there a huge numbers of clustered enemies who stay close to each other all the time.

This isn't a 'problem' because this is not how it works, as you should really know. If you have less than 6 opponents but more than one, the extra hits go after opponents that have already been hit, which is why the spell charges a KE's barrier so efficiently.

To be brutally honest, I think you need to try your advice out in practice before dishing it out on the forums. You certainly shouldn't be advocating situational stuff like Wall of Ice and Revival over it as this kind of stuff gimps the KE. In particular, arguing Fade Step is 'overkill' on a KE when it directly improves their combat capability - given their need to get in close - is basically nonsense.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

This isn't a 'problem' because this is not how it works, as you should really know. If you have less than 6 opponents but more than one, the extra hits go after opponents that have already been hit, which is why the spell charges a KE's barrier so efficiently.

To be brutally honest, I think you need to try your advice out in practice before dishing it out on the forums. You certainly shouldn't be advocating situational stuff like Wall of Ice and Revival over it as this kind of stuff gimps the KE. In particular, arguing Fade Step is 'overkill' on a KE when it directly improves their combat capability - given their need to get in close - is basically nonsense.

 

I have. Knight Enchanter is easy to play, too easy with Fade Step. Without it, you have to at least work to get into melee range and have more incentive to be a hybrid mage-warrior. The reason why I have it on other mages is because they need a dodging ability of some form and Knight Enchanter already has Fade Cloak. Replacing Fade Step with Winter's Grasp gives the Knight Enchanter a spell that they need to cast like an actual mage as opposed to being a pseudo-Jedi. Winter's Grasp locks enemies down rather well and comes with some nice damage. 

 

As for extra hits, doesn't upgraded Static Cage do the exact same thing ? You get damage boost from everyone attacking them and you get to lock them down. Doesn't that recharge barriers more effectively ? If we want to talk about efficient barrier recharging, why even bother with the Storm tree ? Inferno tree is the way to go to get efficient barrier recharge for Knight Enchanter. I put Static Cage as part of a Knight Enchanter skillset because it has a lot of utility. It does good AOE damage, it traps enemies, your allies can make use of it and you can combo really well with it. Chain Lightning does AOE damage and that's about it. 

 

For the record, I have never endorsed Wall of Ice or Revival for Knight Enchanter. Look at my previous posts, I just stated that they are decent spells from their respective trees. One helps with damage blocking and positioning and the other helps reviving fallen allies. I mentioned them because a support mage can find Wall of Ice and Revival. I never recommend them as part of a Knight Enchanter skillset. Knight Enchanter already have a damage mitigation ability, barrier regeneration and a focus ability that functions a lot like Revival. Why would I recommend them ?

 

To paraphrase your own words :- Perhaps you should learn to read before dishing it out on the forums.

[JaegerBane]

To paraphrase your own words :- Perhaps you should learn to read before dishing it out on the forums.

Let's not turn this into 'l2read' 4chan rant, ok?

You've twice argued against taking Chain Lightning on the basis of it working in a way that it doesn't actually work, so it's logical to assume you either haven't tested it properly or you've never tried it and just reading from the tooltip. On top of that, you're also claiming Static Cage does good AoE damage, which it doesn't by itself - it's an amplifier, not a source, you still need an AoE power to trigger that - and one that emphasises raw number of hits over big damage, which is why Barrage and CL synergise with it so well for single targets and AoE respectively. The extra damage from Cage does not appear to feed your barrier, either. As I said before, comparing Static Cage to CL doesn't make sense as they have completely different roles.

One also doesn't have to explicitly state that they take one spell over the other to endorse either one - when you say CL is 'mediocre' then post a list of the best spells in the game including stuff like Wall of Ice, you can't then backtrack by saying 'but I don't use it on this spec, l2read' or whatever. One can only assume that you posted that list of spells for a reason related to your argument. Otherwise, what did you post it for?

Finally, your argument against Fade Step appears to be that it makes things 'too easy' - I'm not sure I agree entirely with that but I can see your underlying point. However, this is inconsistent with the reason you're slating CL, which you state is simply too situational. If you're concerned about a spell being too weak, it's a bit odd to suddenly slate other stuff for it being too powerful. Your point about Winter's Grasp.... Well, 65 mana for 200% damage and a single target CC isn't exactly great, so again, hard to see why CL needs to be dropped but Grasp deserves a slot.

Considering all the above, you can't really blame me from drawing the conclusion that you're theory crafting.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

*Snip*

 

Fair enough.

[SotiCoto]

I've only played through the game once, and I played Rift Mage

... but sufficed to say... Chain Lightning was my most used spell. 
The only spells I never used were Static Cage and Ice Mine ... mostly because they both looked like trash from the description. I suppose I ought to give Static Cage a try at some point, but I don't see how something that only does a measly 75% weapon damage AFTER upgrade could ever be of use.

Every single AOE situation started with Pull of the Abyss to weaken a crowd... followed by Chain Lightning as they steadily got gathered together... then Winter's Grasp and Immolate.   Most enemies didn't survive past the Immolate... but Rift Magic being Rift Magic, by that time I could pretty much just spam anything. 

For a while I was using Fire Mine ... which is basically just an upgraded Immolate with a delay...  but I really didn't need it. In the end the only thing I ended up consistently Fire Mining were non-fire Dragons. 
BUT I digress... 

... Chain Lightning... with upgrade...  is pretty much the most reliable multi-target damage spell. 
Heck, early on I was just alternating between wanding and Chain Lightning. Almost forgot I even had other spells. 

[Elhanan]

AFAIK, Static Cage also gather opponents to the center if they try and escape the cage boundaries, and the effect seems to prime combo detonations. And while I have yet to use it, Static Cage does some damage; uncertain if PotA does any.

[Firky]

For the people saying Chain Lightning goes back and forth between targets, do you have friendly fire off?

 

It's super rare that I can use Chain Lightning and not shock one of my characters. The upgrade sounds horrible. I barely use Chain Lightning as it is, but it sounds like it should be a great spell.

 

PS. I sorely regret taking the upgrades for Lightning Bolt and the ice one, too, because they cause AoE damage and I use them most when I need crowd control close to my ranged companions. And, enemies rarely seem to cluster. The upgrades seem to be OK for certain play styles but not as useful for others.

[Violetbliss]

I rather like CL + upgrade, especially for 2 targets isolated. Very weak on 1 target though.

 

In regards to Fade Step, I really like it with the upgrade. If you practice you can strafe through groups multiple times with 1 cast using the mouse/keyboard, if on pc. Even without that I find the upgrade way better than WG since it costs 0 mana, though at higher levels I still take that to get Mana Surge, but just don't place it on my bars.

 

Though if we're really arguing what's best, I'd say it's better to argue what spells just barely work. The majority is so useful that it is difficult to make a mage build incapable of handling challenges as you mature past lvl 10-12. On the plus side this gives plenty of space to pick spells for fun.

[JaegerBane]

The only spells I never used were Static Cage and Ice Mine ... mostly because they both looked like trash from the description. I suppose I ought to give Static Cage a try at some point, but I don't see how something that only does a measly 75% weapon damage AFTER upgrade could ever be of use.

It's only 50%, but the key is that it triggers everytime an opponent takes a hit. So sure, 1 or 2 hits won't equate to much... But throw an Energy Barrage at an opponent and that equates to 600% weapon damage in addition to the Barrage. That's nothing to sneeze at. With CL, we're looking at an extra 300% damage divided amongst the group. I *think* it also triggers on the results of attacks against Shocked targets, too. That measly 50% extra damage per hit can build up very rapidly.

The main reason Static Cage gets a lot of love is that it does dual-duty as both a decent AoE crowd control spell and a damage amplifier, for the same cost of something like Winter's Grasp.

[RazielTheUnborn]

Soooo... No one preemptetively casts Pull of the abyss? Because enemies are quite clustered before aggro is achieved and once it is, they usually take a few seconds to respond. I am always using Pull of the Abyss as an opener. Love the skill. Even if used kn a single target it is still better than Veilstrike because enemies can not attack while affected in my experiences. Thats an elite or boss that you are getting 8 seconds of free pot shots at.

[JaegerBane]

Soooo... No one preemptetively casts Pull of the abyss? Because enemies are quite clustered before aggro is achieved and once it is, they usually take a few seconds to respond. I am always using Pull of the Abyss as an opener. Love the skill. Even if used kn a single target it is still better than Veilstrike because enemies can not attack while affected in my experiences. Thats an elite or boss that you are getting 8 seconds of free pot shots at.

I think the jury is still out on whether Pull of the Abyss genuinely adds anything to Static Cage, and vice versa. Pull of the Abyss CCs everything and moves them together for an AoE but does no damage and nothing at all against CC immunes, while Static Cage only really CCs melee targets but amplifies the damage on everything. There's a subtle difference there, but I found there was too much overlap - on my RM I preferred PotA + Fire Mine to PotA + Static Cage. Static Cage was more a KE spell for me.

You're right about Veilstrike tho, I've no idea what Bioware thought the player would use it for. It's rubbish.

[Gya]

Soooo... No one preemptetively casts Pull of the abyss? Because enemies are quite clustered before aggro is achieved and once it is, they usually take a few seconds to respond. I am always using Pull of the Abyss as an opener. Love the skill. Even if used kn a single target it is still better than Veilstrike because enemies can not attack while affected in my experiences. Thats an elite or boss that you are getting 8 seconds of free pot shots at.

This. I've yet to find an encounter where you can't stick down PotA to cluster at least two or three mobs, except perhaps for certain adds on boss fights. And even if the mooks aren't close enough, if you drop it on one of the closer melee enemies, the AI is stupid enough to try and rush through, and ends up getting pulled in as well.

@JaegerBane

I agree, PotA and static cage together is a bit unnecessary most of the time. The reason I grab both is because I mainly use static cage to spread FF free shock for sleep combos. That said, I suspect most optimised builds have no need for that, but I do personally find it fun. Actually, it's one of the aspects of this game that I appreciate more on subsequent playthroughs. At first I felt that the viable builds were really limited (unless you went for T3 gear etc), but there's a lot more freedom than I anticipated.

[Exalus]

Pota combos wonderfully with static cage, the only limiter is mana which is not a limiter for rift mage. 

[RazielTheUnborn]

I think the jury is still out on whether Pull of the Abyss genuinely adds anything to Static Cage, and vice versa. Pull of the Abyss CCs everything and moves them together for an AoE but does no damage and nothing at all against CC immunes, while Static Cage only really CCs melee targets but amplifies the damage on everything. There's a subtle difference there, but I found there was too much overlap - on my RM I preferred PotA + Fire Mine to PotA + Static Cage. Static Cage was more a KE spell for me.
You're right about Veilstrike tho, I've no idea what Bioware thought the player would use it for. It's rubbish.

Honestly, I stopped combining the two. I usually use Blizzard on top of Pull of the Abyss and save Static Cahe for after Pull of the Abyss ends. Cage + Abyss os overkill and typically a waste of a second control skill when I have my Reaver either leaving Walking Bomb on enemies or Dorian with me. Hell, even when I bring a Rogue like Varric or Sera its almost assured murder when Abyss is tossed on three or more target from Explosive Arrow or Leaping Shot + Poison Weapons with that passive that turns enemies into a poison cloud.

[JaegerBane]

Pota combos wonderfully with static cage, the only limiter is mana which is not a limiter for rift mage.

Does it? The weakened effect can be applied relatively easily with Stonefist, and can often paralyse the target when it gets chucked against the Cage edge. The dragging effect is similar on both spells but one does not support the other, and the Pull causes no damage so can't trigger the Cage's bolts. They don't work 'together', it's simply a question of two different spells being plastered over the same ground. Compared to something like PotA and Fire Mine, where one compensates for the other's weaknesses, or Static Cage + Energy Barrage/Chain Lightning where bonus damage starts rivalling whole extra nukes.... I just didn't see what actual benefit one got from using both spells.

[Exalus]

Well, its simple you cast pota, fire mine, static cage (fire mine detonates), and what ever else you feel like pouring onto the hapless saps caught in the maelstrom.

 

Theres no reason to cast pota and then cage and then wait for mana regen.

 

I ended up not using stonefist very much since the damage was negligible and it was easy enough to apply permanent weaken with vielstrike and pota.

[JaegerBane]

Well, its simple you cast pota, fire mine, static cage (fire mine detonates), and what ever else you feel like pouring onto the hapless saps caught in the maelstrom.

Theres no reason to cast pota and then cage and then wait for mana regen.

I ended up not using stonefist very much since the damage was negligible and it was easy enough to apply permanent weaken with vielstrike and pota.

Well, if it's a simple case of simply needing more spells to drop on targets then there were better choices than static cage in that situation. From what you've just described, Static Cage wasn't actually doing anything beyond the odd bolt per opponent hit by the Mine. Chain Lightning, Wall of Fire or even Blizzard would have been a better option.

I know Rift Mages can spam whatever they want but that doesn't mean the spells combo.

[RazielTheUnborn]

Static Cage is more for your other allies use than a mage. Pull of the Abyss + Static Cage + Whirlwind = mass explosion death. Though, again, I personally do not use cage with abyss anymore. Prefer Blizzard for the chance to freeze enemies solid, that and giving Solas unlimited mana.

[Exalus]

Well, if it's a simple case of simply needing more spells to drop on targets then there were better choices than static cage in that situation. From what you've just described, Static Cage wasn't actually doing anything beyond the odd bolt per opponent hit by the Mine. Chain Lightning, Wall of Fire or even Blizzard would have been a better option.

I know Rift Mages can spam whatever they want but that doesn't mean the spells combo.

Its for your allies. I dont intend to play solo with a RM.

[PillarBiter]

People who say chain lightning is no good spell Dont know what they are on about.

 

Allow me to paint the picture of destruction:

 

Rift mage.

Step 1) Stonefist+ on target and close enemies

2) Energy barrage at a weakened target Preferably burn.

3) You should still have full stamina from the weaken so, Before energy barrage hits, cast static cage on target (and close enemies)

4) Cast chain lightning for a million lightning hits, and immediate mana recovery

5) Watch shock +  sleep detonate into rupture from immolate +

6) continue to energy barrage, immolate, stonefist and chain lightning like a friggin machine gun. See, each of these spells shorten your casting time due to clean burn, and each of these spells only take like 8 seconds to recover. So basically, you don't ever run out of spells. Shock from chain lighting takes care of sleep combos. 

[Digger1967]

For low level mages, my recommendation is you get winters chill and fade step as fast as you can, and upgrade winters chill as soon as possible.  The reason I recommend these to start with is that one of the biggest problems you face as a low level mage is a charging enemy with melee combat on his mind.  Winter chill stops him from charging and does damage. Lightning and fire may or may not stop him, winter chill will every time.  Upgrade allows you to stop more than one.. and fade step, even the non upgraded version, is worth it's weight in gold.  You can make a quick exit from melee whenever they get to close, turn around and start hammering them again from afar. 

 

Upgrading fade step can come in handy, it will damage an enemy if you pass through him.  Generally I'll get a few other things before upgrading fade step, I like having both immolate and energy barrage first.  Energy barrage is great because it gives you multiple chances for a crit plus it's based on whatever energy type your staff uses, so if you switch from a cold based staff to a fire based staff between encounters, suddenly your energy barrage does fire damage instead, and then you can always switch back without having to buy a tacticians renewal.

 

But for mid level having energy barrage, immolate and winter chill will allow you to alternate and pump out a lot of area of effect damage in a fairly short period of time, and fade step will keep you out of trouble more often than not.

[JaegerBane]

Its for your allies. I dont intend to play solo with a RM.

Fair point, but I still don't get what PotA is doing in that case. Static Cage would have kept them all packed together by itself. Is it the extra PotA duration that you're benefitting from?

[Digger1967]

Still fairly new to the game and only done one mage so far, took Knight enchanter.  I've found with the barrier from the spirit tree (and it's enhancements) plus the knight enchanter skills like Knight protector to increase your barrier up time and Fade Shield that refreshes your barrier based on the damage you do - and well your nigh on invulnerable even without closing to melee range.    You don't have to recast the barrier often, in fact sometimes not at all if you can stay out of melee range and pump out lots of damage without taking much in return and your barrier will normally stay up without having to recast it more than maybe once or twice.  It's a super ugly combo really, you can even take out some of the toughest dragons around without making use of a healing potion.

 

Caveat being I don't play at the "Nightmare" levels so not sure if it's as effective there - but boy on normal difficulty levels you become a walking juggernaut really quick.