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[Grieving Natashina]

Yes, but Shep just pulls out the whole "organics and synthetics don't have to fight each other" as though it's a natural part of their conversation. It isn't. There's no logical flow in the dialogue for why Shep should just pull out the organic-synthetic conflict when the Reaper is talking about order and chaos in a really vague context. I suspect that the only reason it sounds alright is that because this conversation is following Rannoch, but the Reaper makes absolutely no connection between chaos/order and organics/synthetics. The dialogue is ill-fitting and clumsily inserted, and this would be apparent if you moved this Reaper conversation to Tuchanka, for example.

Then the Reaper brings up the battle for Rannoch to disprove Shepard or something, even though half the reason the Geth keep fighting organics is the Reapers themselves.

Playing devil's advocate a bit here:

 

The reason that the Reaper brings up the battle for Rannoch is that he is talking about the beginning of the Geth/Quarian conflict.  Tali talks about it in ME1; as soon as the geth showed awareness, the quarians figured it was only a matter of time before the geth rose up against them.  According to her (and the Reapers and most of the rest of the galaxy,) synthetics would never have a use for organics.   So the quarians started battling the geth after the shutdown command was ignored.

 

Going by the Reaper's cold logic, the quarians started the war, and had to flee from their homeworld because they built AI synthetics.  Thus it was further proof to the Reapers that synthetics and organics will always go to war.  It seems like it doesn't matter who starts it, only that the conflict is supposedly inevitable.  

 

I don't agree with the Reaper, but I can see the twisted POV.

[Grieving Natashina]

I see what you mean. I think the Reapers are instigators too.

 

As for chaos, I, personally, think the chaos/order stuff applies to more than just synthetics myself. I think Shepard can impose a lot of "order" (much like the Council), on things like the Krogan and Rachni. I want everything on as clean a slate as possible, letting life flourish on it's own. If I could allow that for Geth too, I would... but the Reapers already have "tainted" the evolutionary process there. And it can't be fixed like the genophage.

You and I disagree a fair amount about story choices in the lore on the DA forums, but you keep echoing my thoughts in here.  The first time I picked high EMS Destroy (my second character,) I was tearing up a little.  I liked EDI that much as a character and I also found the geth/quarian relationship strangely heartwarming by the end of Rannoch.  However, I know I couldn't have my cake and eat it too.  Unlike my first Shep, that one wanted the Reapers utterly destroyed and knew there was going to be a high price to pay.

 

I picked Synthesis entirely on accident my first time through.  I wouldn't go back and change it.  It suited that version of my Shepard, but I doubt I'd ever do that again.

[Grieving Natashina]

Do we actually disagree a lot on DA? I know you're a dwarf fan, but I've been perceived as a hater. Partly my fault... I talk a lot of crap...but I'm trying to avoid DA forums now. But I'm not a hater. I like them when they're part of a whole dwarf culture... not as merely small human-like people. I liked them in DAO and most fantasy settings. DA in general is getting too homogenized for me (I'm not a fan of the Vashoth either).

 

In any case, it's sad about EDI. I kind of started seeing her as a little sister. But I have to go with Destroy.

We've butted heads from time to time about the mage/templar crap before.  themikefest and I have debated about that as well, but we have a lot of the same views when it comes to ME.   I know how you feel about dwarves, but you know how I feel as well.     We'll keep that to the DA forums for the sake of everyone else in here.  

 

In my ME3 LP, I have a screenshot of EDI asking about romance and mentioning Shepard has had sexual experience.  My caption read: "Ah, EDI.  You're like the little sister I never wanted."  So yeah, I feel the same way as you do to be honest.  I might pick another ending.  I really don't see myself picking Control, simply because the entire concept is too unsettling for me as a player.  That's my hangup, but I might have another Synth-Shep down the road.

 

When it comes to Priority Earth, I think it was the lack of a boss battle more than anything that I didn't enjoy.  The other big thing (Harby's silence isn't that huge) is the gameplay/story disconnect that happens there.  I got about 3 or 4 Critical Mission Failures I got the first time I went after the Reaper on Rannoch, because I kept getting hit with the damn beam.   I didn't know you could start the targeting, move, then continue.  

 

In London, it's a very odd and disjointed way to move the story forward.  Dreamlike would be a good way to describe it.  When I'm in the End Game of a major series like this, I don't want dreamlike.  I would have preferred TIM's boss fight that the devs decided against over getting hit by a Reaper beam that did kill me in another mission.  Keep the rules consistent, Devs.  

 

Sadly, most of the series (except for asari biotics floating down from a higher floor in cutscenes and everything to do with Kai Lang) is really good about keeping the cutscene and gameplay rules in synch.  The beam in London made that difference very jarring.  

[Vazgen]

Yes, but Shep just pulls out the whole "organics and synthetics don't have to fight each other" as though it's a natural part of their conversation. It isn't. There's no logical flow in the dialogue for why Shep should just pull out the organic-synthetic conflict when the Reaper is talking about order and chaos in a really vague context. I suspect that the only reason it sounds alright is that because this conversation is following Rannoch, but the Reaper makes absolutely no connection between chaos/order and organics/synthetics. The dialogue is ill-fitting and clumsily inserted, and this would be apparent if you moved this Reaper conversation to Tuchanka, for example.
Then the Reaper brings up the battle for Rannoch to disprove Shepard or something, even though half the reason the Geth keep fighting organics is the Reapers themselves.

You can avoid that line. Choose Paragon or Renegade options instead of "Investigate".

[Winterking]

You can avoid that line. Choose Paragon or Renegade options instead of "Investigate".

It's almost always renegade for me.

 

"Tell the rest of your friends we are coming for them. [Calls orbital strike] Nevermind. I'll tell them myself."

[AlanC9]

Yes, but Shep just pulls out the whole "organics and synthetics don't have to fight each other" as though it's a natural part of their conversation. It isn't. There's no logical flow in the dialogue for why Shep should just pull out the organic-synthetic conflict when the Reaper is talking about order and chaos in a really vague context.

I didn't see this as a big leap. By this point in the convo, the Reaper has already said that "every organic civilization must be harvested in order to bring order to the chaos." And since the Reapers have always presented themselves as a synthetic race (their manufacturing/reproduction process notwithstanding), the whole war sounds like an organic-synthetic conflict to me.

[Helios969]

For me I thought it was a mixed bag.  Somethings I thought worked, others were epic fails.  I thought the various fights along the way were fine but I'm not too picky about such things.  I also thought the sense of desperation worked.

 

Mostly just reiterate what others have stated.  Not seeing war assets in action.  That could have been handled pretty easily too.  A couple cutscenes showing Krogan infantry busting through Reaper fortifications...maybe even with some Rachni drones assisting (talk about irony.)  A contingent of Asari commandos shown infiltrating behind Reaper lines setting up an ambush site while supported by a few well placed Geth snipers.  But no, we got a single cutscene of allies getting vaporized by a Destroyer.  Wow...inspiring...really felt good.

 

Citadel beam run.  Dumb, dumb, dumb.  Harbinger not annihilating the Normandy was just about the most retarded thing I saw through 3 games.  I don't care about no IFF because I'm pretty damn sure Reapers can see across the EM spectrum...and for sure visible light.  That should have been handled with the Normandy smacking Harbinger from its backside with those boss thanix cannons we upgraded while Steve swooped down in a shuttle to extract your companions.

 

Everything on the Citadel.  Destroy, control, synthesis...dumb, dumber, dumbest.  The Catalyst...good God.  For a machine intelligence that is supposed be magnitudes above organics you'd think it could put together an infallible argument.  Just no.  What it should have been was a boss fight with TIM or ANYTHING in order to open the arms for the Crucible to dock.  Reapers vaporized.  Hurrah, game over, Shep rules.

[Killdren88]

I didn't see this as a big leap. By this point in the convo, the Reaper has already said that "every organic civilization must be harvested in order to bring order to the chaos." And since the Reapers have always presented themselves as a synthetic race (their manufacturing/reproduction process notwithstanding), the whole war sounds like an organic-synthetic conflict to me.

 

Yes, but they are so arrogant they refuse to look beyond their own logic. They deem Organics inferior therefore their opinions are wrong. Thinking your are the apex of all life gives you a pretty narrow view point. The Geth didn't have that problem, nor EDI. Which makes it sting all the more when they also have to die for the Reaper's crimes.

[Damdil]

On a scala from 1 to 10, I would rate this mission around 6/10. I generally liked the mission, but there were too many parts which were unlogical or even annoying. So here is a list of my personal good/bad points.

 

Good:

• I like the soundtrack. Although it repeats itself, it is kinda epic.
• Dark atmosphere and the uncertainty of your sucess 
• "The last talk" with your party. I like especially the dialogue with Garrus.
• It's great to see the great fleets of all galaxy assemble. The space battle cutscenes all also well made, although there are some logic flaws.
• I also like the dialogue with TIM, talking him into show some humanity right before his suicide.
• Great to see the work of the guys from the MEHEM mod.

Bad:

• Some of the dialogues are poorly written and especially some of the stuff Anderson says is not really well-thought-out. For example, he already told Anderson that he was born in London (Shepard doesn't seem to care much both times). And he needs Shepard alive only for accomplishing his mission? Well, how nice to put it that way.
• Stupid combat plan. The Reapers outnumber and outgun your forces, they're entrenched and can obliterate everyone in seconds? Let's go for an all-in frontal assault and lose everyone! Also a great idea to attack a Reaper with light weapons at point-blank while everyone knows that it takes a little more than that.
• The mission itself is not really outstanding. You basically fight tons of Reaper groundforces and nothing more.
• "This is it". These three words are certainly said too often. 
• While it's nice to see that the Normandy rescues your squad, it's really unlogical that it stands around for a good minute, while the Reaper killed everything in sight before and after the rescue. A shuttle rescue would have been a bit better, but also not really logical.
• In a codex entry there is explained that attacking fleets only can approach in a certain angle for avoiding hitting the planet itself in a planetary battle. In almost every cutscene, even the dreadnoughts are firing straight on, probably hitting Earth and not only the Reapers.
• The end itself (unmodded).
• The fact that it ends the story of Shepard and his companions after a great trilogy quite poorly.

[Torgette]

I thought the level design of London felt the least inspired of maybe the whole trilogy, it's just so straightforward! Also the ending felt weird in tone, like a dream than being in the moment.

I did like the goodbyes though, very powerful.

[countofhell]

There was actually near nothing i liked about this mission except the music and some Garrus, Javik and Liara dialogues.

But this does not mean i did not accept it.

[Linkenski]

@Damdil:
That's my problem with Anderson in general in ME3. He's completely tactless. He keeps saying stuff like "I just need you to do what it takes" as if he doesn't care about shepard personally, and he starts every second sentence with "hell, [insert actual content]" and says "God damn" way too often.

So out of character.

[Gago]

I didn't like the first part (the landing) at all, it was way too short, and at the end of this mission we didn't face any "boss". The final battle when you protect the missiles was fantastic but I think there should have been a final boss to fight. I love urban combat so I loved the second part which was the goodbyes and the race to ground zero. 

 

The battle over Earth was awesome, too bad we didn't see more of it. 

[themikefest]

@Damdil:
That's my problem with Anderson in general in ME3. He's completely tactless. He keeps saying stuff like "I just need you to do what it takes" as if he doesn't care about shepard personally, and he starts every second sentence with "hell, [insert actual content]" and says "God damn" way too often.

So out of character.

I'm not a fan of Anderson. This is what I said about him and other things about Priority Earth on page 2

[ImaginaryMatter]

@Damdil:
That's my problem with Anderson in general in ME3. He's completely tactless. He keeps saying stuff like "I just need you to do what it takes" as if he doesn't care about shepard personally, and he starts every second sentence with "hell, [insert actual content]" and says "God damn" way too often.

So out of character.

 

I felt like Anderson was that throughout the third game. It never seemed like him and Shepard ever had that close of relationship.

 

Then again the final conversation with him worked for me so who knows.

[Torgette]

I'm not a fan of Anderson. This is what I said about him and other things about Priority Earth on page 2

 

Yep, a lot of Priority Earth felt like they ran out of money and time, so completely out of character for the trilogy when ME1 and 2's final levels were the highlights of those games. Anderson himself sounds like he's constantly missing dialogue, or the writers and level designers didn't bother talking to eachother.

[TheIdiocyWizard2.0]

Something else I hated, I HATE that we have to have an explanation for why the Reapers reap. Whatever happened to "we are beyond your comprehension"? I can perfectly comprehend the Catalysts motives and mandate (and while I also think they are contrived and out of place, that's another discussion for another time). I always felt that the reason behind the Reapers should have been a mystery until the very end. They were (cinematically) terrifying when they wanted to kill us for reasons unknown, but now I know that they're just a flying cliche. It's because of this opinion why I haven't downloaded Leviathen an never will. I hate the origins of the Reapers, and don't acknowledge it in my personal head cannon. Maybe it's just me but I always thought they worked better as unreasonable, uncompromising monsters that wanted to destroy/enslave us, the why being something that we would never know or understand. Ultimately, I wanted Anderson to be right. We destroy them, or they destroy us. Nothing more, nothing less.

I wouldnt even mind control (synthesis needs to be removed IMO) if there wasn't a starbrat. It would be out of place but at least it would give the sense of a choice. Destroy the Reapers at the cost of all synthetics, and critically damaging all relays without a means of fixing them quickly, or control the Reapers and spare synthetic life and ensure you can fix the relays quickly.

As an aside, I also felt that conventional victory should have been possible, though EXTREMELY difficult, as it would have fit with the theme of the entire series better, but that's just IMO.

[themikefest]

As an aside, I also felt that conventional victory should have been possible, though EXTREMELY difficult, as it would have fit with the theme of the entire series better, but that's just IMO.

It would be hard to have a conventional victory. It would take a long time and have good leaders know what they're doing to accomplish that victory. The game would have to be setup for a conventional victory. I would've had it setup since ME1 or at least in ME2. Since ME3 is a standalone game, it would never happen since the reapers had to be stopped within the game. The crucible is needed for that to happen.

 

Its funny that someone with 15 000 ems and someone with 3100 ems get the same ending. If I choose to have the breath scene in whatever playthrough I'm doing, I always head to Earth with 3200 ems. I also make no effort to get my ems any higher than that since I have no incentive to get it higher

[themikefest]

Is that all the requirements are? Damn.. I end up wasting a lot of time. I probably have over 1000 just from multiplayer builds, but I'm fairly completionist and get around 8000 by the end. Or more. Not sure. Probably would be a good idea to be selective and "roleplay" what assets I have.

You mean the 3200? No. 3100 ems is needed for the breath scene if Anderson is saved. 3200 ems is needed if TIM kills Anderson. Anderson takes away 100 war assets is killed by TIM and gives 200 war assets if "saved". So if someone likes saving Anderson, they can head to Earth with only 2900 ems and still get the breath scene

 

I have done the worst possible playthrough and still got the breath scene. Excellent. Whenever I start a new trilogy playthrough, I already have in mind what I will do, who I will recruit, who I will let die and which war asset I want to collect