500 réponses à ce sujet

[SojournerN7]

Only scanned the last page.

 

Mostly for me it was the pacing. I think saying goodbye to squad mates should have been done prior to 'Assault the Cerberus Base' and left out of Priority Earth. I felt like there was this huge break in the action in the Climax of 'Take back Earth' that made the whole invasion of Earth feel underwhelming. 

 

In my mind, should have gone: Destroy Hades Cannon -  Survive Until Extraction - FOB plan of attack (mini-break) - FOB attacked - Defend Thannix missles - Final Push.

 

Oh, and as mentioned, Harby taking off rather than defending the all-important beam. 

[themikefest]

 

Mostly for me it was the pacing. I think saying goodbye to squad mates should have been done prior to 'Assault the Cerberus Base' and left out of Priority Earth.

I believe you're the only one, besides myself, that has mentioned about not having the goodbyes on Earth.

[Tim van Beek]

I believe you're the only one, besides myself, that has mentioned about not having the goodbyes on Earth.

Maybe, but the "nothing much happens here" scene has been critizized before, for example by the anonymous writer who leaked his opinion (google "Mass Effect 3 Writer Allegedly Slams Controversial Ending"):

 

 

 

We did get a goodbye to our friends, but it was in a scene that was divorced from the gameplay -- a deliberate "nothing happens here" area with one turret thrown in for no reason I really understand, except possibly to obfuscate the "nothing happens here"-ness. 

 

I think one could rework the mission in a way that Shepard decides to place his squad mates at certain strategic points or  assign critical missions, which he/she passes by while fighting to get to the beam (or which are shown in cut scenes), so that you can have a final good bye (or witness the death of some) in a way that is integrated with the gameplay, analog to the suicide mission in ME:2.

So while people may come up with different solutions (have the good bye in an earlier mission or better integrate it into the gameplay somehow), I get the feeling that most agree with the nature of the problem 

[themikefest]

Maybe, but the "nothing much happens here" scene has been critizized before, for example by the anonymous writer who leaked his opinion (see e.g. here http://www.gameranx....rsial-ending/):

Do you have a more direct link? I don't want to look through 2600 pages

[Tim van Beek]

Do you have a more direct link? I don't want to look through 2600 pages

Ugh, sorry, copy&pasting the original URL into my browser works, while clicking the link does not, don't know why. 

 

Maybe try googling: "Mass Effect 3 Writer Allegedly Slams Controversial Ending"

[fraggle]

Ugh, sorry, copy&pasting the original URL into my browser works, while clicking the link does not, don't know why. 

 

Maybe try googling: "Mass Effect 3 Writer Allegedly Slams Controversial Ending"

 

Ah, that was the post supposedly made by Patrick Weekes, right? Was that actually ever proven it was really him?

[Dantriges]

Googling using that sentence works.

 

The article points out that it´s not really 100% verified.

[themikefest]

Ugh, sorry, copy&pasting the original URL into my browser works, while clicking the link does not, don't know why. 

 

Maybe try googling: "Mass Effect 3 Writer Allegedly Slams Controversial Ending"

I remember that.  I still would have the goodbyes on the Normandy and not in London. 

[fraggle]

I'm suspicious about it too. Would Weekes really go as far as bashing his colleagues and things about the ending?

 

I'm actually fine with the Goodbye scene. It could've of course also been done on the Normandy and would've been just as fine, but I kinda liked the atmosphere, and it was something new.

[Monica21]

I'm suspicious about it too. Would Weekes really go as far as bashing his colleagues and things about the ending?

 

From what I read he wasn't bashing his colleagues. He went out of his way to say that Casey Hudson is really smart and really analytical, but that writing the ending in a vacuum was a mistake. At worst, I'd call it constructive criticism. If that's what actually happened, and if it really was Patrick Weekes, then I'd have to agree with him. If you've got an entire team at your disposal then you use that team. Casey Hudson just didn't use that team and that's unfortunate not just for the players, but for everyone else who'd been working on Mass Effect for years and years and had a huge stake in the culmination of the story.

[Dantriges]

Could be. If it was Weekes it could be that all the stuff thrown in their direction got to him and he was fed up with being critisized for something he had minimal input in. So he lost it and later realized it was a bad idea.

[fraggle]

From what I read he wasn't bashing his colleagues. He went out of his way to say that Casey Hudson is really smart and really analytical, but that writing the ending in a vacuum was a mistake. At worst, I'd call it constructive criticism. If that's what actually happened, and if it really was Patrick Weekes, then I'd have to agree with him. If you've got an entire team at your disposal then you use that team. Casey Hudson just didn't use that team and that's unfortunate not just for the players, but for everyone else who'd been working on Mass Effect for years and years and had a huge stake in the culmination of the story.

 

Yeah, I would agree, too. Use a team if you have it.

Maybe in the end it wasn't as bashful as I remember, been a while since I read that post. It's just that it's way too easy to fake something like that, so I never really fully trusted this post.

Either way, guess we'll never really know

[themikefest]

I'm actually fine with the Goodbye scene. It could've of course also been done on the Normandy and would've been just as fine, but I kinda liked the atmosphere, and it was something new.

The problem with having the goodbyes in London is that when Shepard sees Anderson, he/she says, "Every minute wasted, the reapers gather strength". So why have Shepard say that line if the player spends however long saying goodbye? 

[fraggle]

The problem with having the goodbyes in London is that when Shepard sees Anderson, he/she says, "Every minute wasted, the reapers gather strength". So why have Shepard say that line if the player spends however long saying goodbye? 

 

Writer's fault I get your point. It could've been done differently indeed.

But it also depends if you see talking to your squaddies as a waste of time, haha. And on the other hand we have Vega react to being back to Earth, which was a nice touch imo.

[Tim van Beek]

BTW: No idea if the text is really from a writer of the ME3 staff, I cited it because it hits the nail on the head IMHO about what does not work out with Priority:Earth

 

Writer's fault I get your point. It could've been done differently indeed.

But it also depends if you see talking to your squaddies as a waste of time, haha. And on the other hand we have Vega react to being back to Earth, which was a nice touch imo.

Sure, there is a good reason why talented people like Mac and Casey put it in there, but: The action parts are a frantic and desparate fight for survival against an enemy that just keeps on coming. The talk scene is an anti-climax in the middle, if an interesting one. The Surkesh and Tuchanka missions demonstrate how to integrate storytelling with gameplay perfectly. I think that could be done (and should have been done) with Priority:Earth, too. 

 

A fan of James, eh? Think of the ""Now I'm kinda glad we're not in the truck!" from the Tuchanka mission...you can have your moments without bringing the action grindingly to a halt  .

[Linkenski]

From what I read he wasn't bashing his colleagues. He went out of his way to say that Casey Hudson is really smart and really analytical, but that writing the ending in a vacuum was a mistake. At worst, I'd call it constructive criticism. If that's what actually happened, and if it really was Patrick Weekes, then I'd have to agree with him. If you've got an entire team at your disposal then you use that team. Casey Hudson just didn't use that team and that's unfortunate not just for the players, but for everyone else who'd been working on Mass Effect for years and years and had a huge stake in the culmination of the story.

Normally the kind of stunt Weekes pulled is the kind that gets you fired, but I think it just shows that Bioware is a good team after all and as David Gaider has often implied, they are their own biggest critics and I think that's probably true even if we as fans sometimes can't grasp how parts of their final products end up in certain ways, like ME3's ending for instance. As much as I think you like making a game as a developer, you're probably eager to be done with it after a year or more of development and crunchtime, so while there was probably internal backlash against the ending and Weekes publicizing his own frustrations on a forum, I think shipping the game in that state was probably just a mistake and not the entire team going "This is perfect". It was said, that Casey had looked at the feedback after release and said "We have to do better".

[angol fear]

Casey saying that ? Any souce ?

[Ithurael]

It was said, that Casey had looked at the feedback after release and said "We have to do better".

 

I remember that, it was someone else on the team talking about the creation of the EC and what Casey was saying during a meeting. I am not sure where that went. I give props to Casey though, he really did try to make things right. I cannot begrudge that.

[fraggle]

The talk scene is an anti-climax in the middle, if an interesting one. The Surkesh and Tuchanka missions demonstrate how to integrate storytelling with gameplay perfectly. I think that could be done (and should have been done) with Priority:Earth, too. 

 

A fan of James, eh? Think of the ""Now I'm kinda glad we're not in the truck!" from the Tuchanka mission...you can have your moments without bringing the action grindingly to a halt  .

 

Exactly this. It was interesting to me, and it did not bother me at all that it was "anti-climatic" (maybe I'm weird that way, but I've always, for as long as I play games, enjoyed a tiny pause in-between the action. A short moment to rest, gather and carry on ). But like I said, a Normandy goodbye would've been also very good. Now, we got what we got, so I'm not sweating it

 

And you're right of course, they could've solved it similarly like those moments during missions, they've done a fantastic job with these, but for me personally it was kinda nice to also see the squaddies' reactions and facial expressions more closely due to what's happening around them at that exact moment. Not sure if the situation would've expressed the same if the goodbye would've been on the Normandy and they hadn't really seen yet what was happening in London.

And me, a fan of James? Nah

Maybe a little.

[elrofrost]

The goodbyes on Earth didn't bother me too much. I think the most upsetting was Normandy flying in to save my LI. That was - I mean, thanks for saving my LI but, really! (this is assuming your EMS was high enough).  I would've like it more had the Normandy been  providing support for the ground troops. And maybe firing at the Repears themselves.  And then flying in.

[Dantriges]

In five seconds.

[angol fear]

I remember that, it was someone else on the team talking about the creation of the EC and what Casey was saying during a meeting. I am not sure where that went. I give props to Casey though, he really did try to make things right. I cannot begrudge that.

 

Thanks. I've found a source :

 

http://www.gamespot....t/1100-6411978/

 

That Chris Priestly answer is at about 40 minutes.

 

I think that Casey Hudson wanted to do the right thing too. But what does it mean? To do the right is to obey the players expectations? Is it the right thing to do to please the "fans"?

What is the context of this answer?

Chris Priestly is justifying the extended cut. (It would have been worst for their reputation if they didn't do the extended cut). Chris Priestly is facing fans, it's not an interview. Chris Priestly has to convince the fans that Bioware did the right thing. I don't think that Chris Priestly is dishonnest or anything but there's a lot of demagogy in that video.

And we can see Patrick Weekes having a totally different way of talking about the ending (if we consider that the post about the ending is Weekes post). Here, he is insisting on the emotional reception that explains why some people disliked the ending.

 

But if we consider what is done and what they say, there is a problem. "Make it better", "do better job", " to end as best as possible" etc... so the extended cut would be about quality (but it's called "extended cut", it's not director's cut or anything). But how can the quality be improved with ideas that totally changed the the idea of the ending? They improved the quality when they created problem of narration? (I don't think that they don't see the narration problem they created). They provide more closure but some people ( that's for you, Iakus! ) still have to deal with the breath scene, where is the closure for them?

So I'm not saying that Chris Priestly is lying but that's total demagogy and they are here for that.

Sure, that intervention was in 2013 and the extended cut was released in june 2012, so it's not to "sell" the extended cut. They are not here to say "download the EC, it's free and you'll be happy", they are here to say "Bioware listened to the fans, they have always did that". They are here to make the "fans" believe that they can "trust" again Bioware.

Honestly I think it's strange that we have to wait 40 minutes before anyone ask a question about ME ending when we can can see that people still talk about the ending with passion.

[Tim van Beek]

Yeah, I would agree, too. Use a team if you have it.

Brilliant people do a lot of stupid things, in my experience. They do them less often and in more interesting ways than less brilliant people, but still. In case of Priority:Earth there are actually two things before the "Harbinger beam hits Shepard" that really make me wonder.

 

First: Does anyone at BioWare think that Normandy magically appearing for evacuation makes any sense? Or was this a democracy thing? Like "we will annoy the 5% who think about it to please all the others?".

 

Second: Did at least anyone edit the dialog? I get the impression that even that was skipped. Examples: Are the things that carry the "thanix missiles" (BTW: what are those? I only know about thanix cannons) trucks or tanks? "Return to the trucks!", "They are going for the tanks!"...And Hackett: "We cannot defeat the Reapers conventionally, without the crucible." Ugh, what? You mean "we need the crucible, because we cannot defeat the Reapers conventionally", right?. Besides, this is an explanation that none of the characters in that scene need, it is intended for the audience. This is a classic writing mistake. "Bob, your son, the mechanic, is at the door" - right, like Bob needs a reminder of his son's profession  .

[afgncaap7]

Hm...if we're just talking gameplay, then there's one thing that definitely comes to mind. The final actual obstacle of this amazing trilogy............is a random mook.

[Batarian Master Race]

Hm...if we're just talking gameplay, then there's one thing that definitely comes to mind. The final actual obstacle of this amazing trilogy............is a random mook.

 

You take that back. Marauder Shields is the true hero of the series. He tried to keep us from the endings.

 

He stood in silence waiting, 
for the day when you would arrive, 
to protect you from the ending, 
to make sure you would not survive. 

He only had one goal, 
to stop that awful blight, 
to stop those from progressing, 
into the beam of light. 

Alas he failed his mission, 
he did not have the last word, 
instead he fell to one soldier, 
known by the name of Shepard. 

The ending was seen by millions, 
and woe was spread throughout, 
the world was cast in shadow, 
the world was wrought by doubt. 

Had that realy happened? 
Was that just a dream? 
What the hell did we just see, 
and what was it supposed to mean. 

He is in a better place now, 
full of green and golden fields, 
we salute our fallen saviour, 
we salute you, Marauder Shields.