500 réponses à ce sujet

[Ithurael]

Reading this made me wonder - if the Normandy can just drop down in front of the beam, right in front of Harbinger, and not be shot at. Why didn't they just do this in the first place?

 

Shepard: "Hey guys, we need to make it to the beam, we'll have to travel all through London, fire off a few missiles, distract the....".

Joker: "Wait wait wait. Why don't I just fly us all in there? I can set us down right at the front of the beam. Remember that Reaper IFF we had installed? Yeah, we'll be completely invisible to them. The whole team can jump out and into the beam, right?"

Shepard: "Wait. What? That'll work?".

 

Answer 1: Rule of Cool

http://tvtropes.org/...Main/RuleOfCool

 

Answer 2: Mac Walters and a rushed ending with no peer review

[WizzyWarlock]

Answer 1: Rule of Cool

http://tvtropes.org/...Main/RuleOfCool

 

Answer 2: Mac Walters and a rushed ending with no peer review

I'd go with Answer 3: We screwed up the ending, so have to justify the disappearance of squad mates somehow for the EC. Normandy Airlift! (No no, let's not think about it, it'll work, okay?)

[Vazgen]

Reading this made me wonder - if the Normandy can just drop down in front of the beam, right in front of Harbinger, and not be shot at. Why didn't they just do this in the first place?

 

Shepard: "Hey guys, we need to make it to the beam, we'll have to travel all through London, fire off a few missiles, distract the....".

Joker: "Wait wait wait. Why don't I just fly us all in there? I can set us down right at the front of the beam. Remember that Reaper IFF we had installed? Yeah, we'll be completely invisible to them. The whole team can jump out and into the beam, right?"

Shepard: "Wait. What? That'll work?".

Because there is a Destroyer protecting the beam. Normandy might be able to confuse a Reaper but Shepard needs to get out to enter the beam. And after you deal with destroyer it's faster to get there via ground vehicle (also doesn't remove Normandy from space battle).

 

Exactly. Not to mention that if the beam goes through space,we could have just jumped from the Normandy directly into the beam,without having to land on Earth in the first place. Plus jumping from the Normandy in middle of a huge space battle would make for a much better cutscene than Shepard just limping towards the beam and killing Marauder Shields.

As I recall, the beam is not visible from space. Cutscenes show light emitting from the Citadel base but no visible energy beam

[themikefest]

Because there is a Destroyer protecting the beam. Normandy might be able to confuse a Reaper but Shepard needs to get out to enter the beam. And after you deal with destroyer it's faster to get there via ground vehicle (also doesn't remove Normandy from space battle).

 

So what if there's a destroyer there. Forget taking the Normandy to the beam, have Steve take Shepard to the beam. The only way the destroyer see's the shuttle is if Steve flies in front of it. Have Steve drop off Shepard while the destroyer is facing away from the shuttle. Shepard walks into the beam. Ta da. Mission accomplished. Shepard is ok and on the Citadel to open the arms. Look at how many lives are saved.  But there's one big problem with this idea. It has no cool crap in it. Can't have that now can we? Nevermind. Lets just go with the beam run and the what-the-crap evac scene

[Vazgen]

So what if there's a destroyer there. Forget taking the Normandy to the beam, have Steve take Shepard to the beam. The only way the destroyer see's the shuttle is if Steve flies in front of it. Have Steve drop off Shepard while the destroyer is facing away from the shuttle. Shepard walks into the beam. Ta da. Mission accomplished. Shepard is ok and on the Citadel to open the arms. Look at how many lives are saved.  But there's one big problem with this idea. It has no cool crap in it. Can't have that now can we? Nevermind. Lets just go with the beam run and the what-the-crap evac scene

That's assuming the Destroyer doesn't notice anything happening behind it. They don't rely on vision, they rely on sensors, otherwise the Harbinger would've shot the Normandy down. When Steve comes from behind, the Destroyer turns and shoots it down. 

It would've made more sense for Shepard to sneak behind the beam on foot while gunships attack the destroyer and distract it. Like on Tuchanka. But no, Shepard needs to go "where the resistance is the thickest" *facepalm*

[themikefest]

That's assuming the Destroyer doesn't notice anything happening behind it. They don't rely on vision, they rely on sensors, otherwise the Harbinger would've shot the Normandy down.

Really? Harbinger can still see the organics so why didn't it fire at them like it did before the Normandy showed up? It shows Shepard looking at Harbinger for a moment before running from the Normandy.

When Steve comes from behind, the Destroyer turns and shoots it down.

How quickly can that thing turn around?  

It would've made more sense for Shepard to sneak behind the beam on foot while gunships attack the destroyer and distract it.

I agree about Shepard sneaking to the beam. I don't agree about using gunships. Remember that cutscene showing that asari cammando and the Krogan and Turians using small arms fire at the destroyer(idiots)? When the player gains control of Shepard it shows where the destroyer is. How did those characters get there? It appears they were a lot closer to the beam than Shepard is when protecting the missiles. Had they not fired on the destroyer, there's a good chance anyone of them could've made it to the beam undetected. That's the group Shepard should be with.

For a distraction. Have the Normandy fire on Harbinger from from behind. You know why that wouldn't work? Because the only way to have a thannix cannon is to get the upgrade from Garrus in ME2. Since this is ME3, the third game in the trilogy and the place to start playing a trilogy, the cannon isn't available and ME2 never existed
 

Like on Tuchanka.

Well the Turian pilots on Tuchanka were stupid from the beginning. What did they do? They flew in front of the destroyer that leads to the fighter being shot and ends up crashing in the area where Shepard is located. Then it becomes stupid part 2. The Turian pilots again fly in front of the destroyer. Firing on the thing from behind would create a better distraction since the destroyer has to turn around to see/sense what is firing at it.

 

But no, Shepard needs to go "where the resistance is the thickest" *facepalm*

Anderson is a couple cans short of a six-pack. Either that or he's indoctrinated

[God]

It felt very short, very grim, and portrayed the ground war against Reaper forces as all but hopeless. You had an entire invasion force that would fit in the entirety of southern England, let alone the capital. And they were extraordinarily under utilized. I don't believe in conventional victory at all, but the sheer numbers of your ground forces and strike/ground-attack air/spacecraft at the time would guarantee you victory in a ground war. 

 

Meanwhile, it seems like there's only a handful of people from each species on the ground, and it seems like the entire alliance strike force is made up of members of the Earth resistance. It goes along with war assets. You could have easily steamrolled through to the portal with the sheer volume of forces that you were throwing at it, at least as far as war assets goes. One Reaper alone isn't going to be able to cover every direction simultaneously. What other area could people possibly attack? The goal is to get someone, anyone, through the portal and onto the Citadel.

 

This is arguably my biggest gripe with the final battle on Earth. There was almost no recognition of your assets in the battle. Same with the situation in orbit. 

 

As I said, I don't believe conventional victory should ever be possible, but I would like to see the significant assets working (or failing). And reflective of your choices.

[Orikon]

As I recall, the beam is not visible from space. Cutscenes show light emitting from the Citadel base but no visible energy beam

 

True,though you can see the beam going through the clouds. So unless the beam stops half way to the Citadel and you (magically) still get there,the beam does connect with the citadel. Not to mention that the loading screen after Shepard walks into the beam clearly shows that Shepard was being transported across a longer distance (Earth --> Citadel)

 

 

It is possible that the beam was overlooked by the cinematic department. Looking at how rushed the ending is,I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.

[Vazgen]

True,though you can see the beam going through the clouds. So unless the beam stops half way to the Citadel and you (magically) still get there,the beam does connect with the citadel. Not to mention that the loading screen after Shepard walks into the beam clearly shows that Shepard was being transported across a longer distance (Earth --> Citadel)

 

 

It is possible that the beam was overlooked by the cinematic department. Looking at how rushed the ending is,I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.

I think not, the beam connecting Crucible to the Citadel is not visible from space either, but a flashing light is visible, same with Citadel to Earth connection.

[Daemul]

It felt very short, very grim, and portrayed the ground war against Reaper forces as all but hopeless. You had an entire invasion force that would fit in the entirety of southern England, let alone the capital. And they were extraordinarily under utilized. I don't believe in conventional victory at all, but the sheer numbers of your ground forces and strike/ground-attack air/spacecraft at the time would guarantee you victory in a ground war. 

 

What ever numbers the invasion force had the Reapers had much more though. These are the same guys who turn everyone they capture into husks, which are their ground forces, and they throw them all at the opposition. Not even the Turians, with the ultimate ground troops on their side, aka The Krogan, could prevent them from taking more and more ground on Palaven, to the extent where they even had to abandon the planet, in order to have an sort of force left to be able to take to Earth. The Reapers have billions, if not trillions(if the Council representing trillions of people in the galaxy is true) of potential ground troops available for huskification, and destroyers galore with their overpowered OHKO beam to own the sky. They are not losing the ground war. 

[themikefest]

What ever numbers the invasion force had the Reapers had much more though. These are the same guys who turn everyone they capture into husks, which are their ground forces, and they throw them all at the opposition. Not even the Turians, with the ultimate ground troops on their side, aka The Krogan, could prevent them from taking more and more ground on Palaven, to the extent where they even had to abandon the planet, in order to have an sort of force left to be able to take to Earth. The Reapers have billions, if not trillions(if the Council representing trillions of people in the galaxy is true) of potential ground troops available for huskification, and destroyers galore with their overpowered OHKO beam to own the sky. They are not losing the ground war. 

The invasion of Illium was delayed due to the forces not firing on the capital ships, but firing on the troop carrier and processing ships. Had all planets been able to do that, the ground war for the reapers would've been more difficult. Its hard to fight a ground war if they can't make ground troops

[KrrKs]

Honestly, I can't understand the hate for the Evac scene.

Yes, it doesn't make sense on various (pretty much all) levels, but has everyone forgotten what happened pre-EC?!

I vastly prefer the well made EC scenes and the (minor) inconsistencies that come with it than have the teleporting dead Squadmates stuff again

(and I'm not even factoring Starchild into this)!

 

If the Evac scene bugs you so much, just delete the Extended cut -problem solved.

[God]

What ever numbers the invasion force had the Reapers had much more though. These are the same guys who turn everyone they capture into husks, which are their ground forces, and they throw them all at the opposition. Not even the Turians, with the ultimate ground troops on their side, aka The Krogan, could prevent them from taking more and more ground on Palaven, to the extent where they even had to abandon the planet, in order to have an sort of force left to be able to take to Earth. The Reapers have billions, if not trillions(if the Council representing trillions of people in the galaxy is true) of potential ground troops available for huskification, and destroyers galore with their overpowered OHKO beam to own the sky. They are not losing the ground war. 

 

In one concentrated location and little actual support? The sheer number of husks in one city and one region is not going to outnumber the combined force assault on said attack zone. 

 

It's a question of tactical assault. You're equating this one city with everybody concentrating on it as the same as somewhere else. We're presumably landing millions, if not tens of millions of ground forces on London. With heavy air support, fleet support, armor, and artillery. And you seem to think that these numbers of husks are all magically in one location in the galaxy. In which case, every other planet should be relatively secure for the allied fleets. And there aren't 'destroyers galore' there's really only a handful, with their defensive fire being rather limited against en masse air assault. They're more surface to orbit energy weapons rather than dedicated GAWs. 

 

They are totally losing the ground war if BW decided to be realistic about their forces. I don't think you understand the intricacies of a tactical air assault on a (lightly) fortified position. 

 

Honestly, by the time Shepard actually gets to London, it should be a flat walk to the conduit beam, with maybe a few husks in the way to shoot. 

[Memnon]

Honestly, I can't understand the hate for the Evac scene.

Yes, it doesn't make sense on various (pretty much all) levels, but has everyone forgotten what happened pre-EC?!

I vastly prefer the well made EC scenes and the (minor) inconsistencies that come with it than have the teleporting dead Squadmates stuff again

(and I'm not even factoring Starchild into this)!

 

If the Evac scene bugs you so much, just delete the Extended cut -problem solved.

 

I hated the Evac scene - all the EC did was add what everyone had already pretty much interpolated. That's why I don't feel like the EC "solved" anything. The issue wasn't that there was so much missing data or dialogue unspoken, it's that the end sequence was poorly executed, horribly written and just plain bad - unspoken or otherwise. The issue in my mind wasn't that that data in between points was missing, it was that the EC confirmed what everyone already guessed. And it made no sense ... 

[God]

Honestly, I can't understand the hate for the Evac scene.

Yes, it doesn't make sense on various (pretty much all) levels, but has everyone forgotten what happened pre-EC?!

I vastly prefer the well made EC scenes and the (minor) inconsistencies that come with it than have the teleporting dead Squadmates stuff again

(and I'm not even factoring Starchild into this)!

 

If the Evac scene bugs you so much, just delete the Extended cut -problem solved.

 

Just because it's better than the pre-ec does not make it good on its own. 

 

IMO, whoever went with you should have died, or (if your EMS was high enough), have enough of an ability to retreat to a defensive position where the Normandy can exfiltrate from a safer position (actually, talking about this brings back memories of David bitching about being able to kill Liara. I miss him, but don't want him back, because then we spend the rest of our time remembering why we wanted him gone in the first place.)

 

Don't judge something as good just because it's better than what came previous. A shiny turd may be prettier than a regular turd, but at the end of the day, it's still a turd. And this part of the EC was definitely a turd.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Honestly, I can't understand the hate for the Evac scene.

Yes, it doesn't make sense on various (pretty much all) levels, but has everyone forgotten what happened pre-EC?!

I vastly prefer the well made EC scenes and the (minor) inconsistencies that come with it than have the teleporting dead Squadmates stuff again

(and I'm not even factoring Starchild into this)!

 

If the Evac scene bugs you so much, just delete the Extended cut -problem solved.

 

The EC still has teleporting squadmates, it only explains how two get onto the ship. The whole thing is definitely a Voodoo Shark.

 

My main reason for disliking the scene though is because the beam run is one of the few things I actually like about Priority: Earth. It's the only part I find that has any tension to it. The evac scene slams the breaks on those feelings and replaces it with hokey drama. In some ways I find it worse than the ending. The ending left me with quiet ruminations about how underwhelming the whole experience was while the evacuation scene caused verbal rage.

 

I did uninstall the EC though. Although, that's mostly because nothing beats shooting the Catalyst over and over again until the Reapers blow up the Crucible and put us all out of our misery.

 

What ever numbers the invasion force had the Reapers had much more though. These are the same guys who turn everyone they capture into husks, which are their ground forces, and they throw them all at the opposition. Not even the Turians, with the ultimate ground troops on their side, aka The Krogan, could prevent them from taking more and more ground on Palaven, to the extent where they even had to abandon the planet, in order to have an sort of force left to be able to take to Earth. The Reapers have billions, if not trillions(if the Council representing trillions of people in the galaxy is true) of potential ground troops available for huskification, and destroyers galore with their overpowered OHKO beam to own the sky. They are not losing the ground war. 

Reaper forces can't combo things though; plus, Reaper beams are easy enough to dodge. Their real power relies on trapping you in cutscenes.

[God]

CUTSCENE INCOMPETENCE!

 

It is ****** said.

[wright1978]

I hated the Evac scene - all the EC did was add what everyone had already pretty much interpolated. That's why I don't feel like the EC "solved" anything. The issue wasn't that there was so much missing data or dialogue unspoken, it's that the end sequence was poorly executed, horribly written and just plain bad - unspoken or otherwise. The issue in my mind wasn't that that data in between points was missing, it was that the EC confirmed what everyone already guessed. And it made no sense ...

Yep agree extended cut just made even less sense. Entire Normandy crew abandoning the fight for the safety of the ship, leaving other soldiers to fight on the ground whilst Shep's made further to act like an idiot refusing to get any of the numerous on the normandy to join this apparent desperate last gasp suicide run to the beam. Like plugging one hole by creating another even bigger one. The trainwreck of a plot wasn't fixed in the slightest, just twisted even more convolutedly to justify the original holes.

[WizzyWarlock]

As I said, I don't believe conventional victory should ever be possible, but I would like to see the significant assets working (or failing). And reflective of your choices.

I disagree, I think conventional victory should have been the one way to defeat the Reapers, especially considering the massive force you've pulled into the battle with you. How, you ask? Well, the current version of the Crucible allows you to Destroy, Synthesis or Control the Reapers. How about instead of those three, you just hack the AI and get it to drop the shields on the Reapers? Shields down, just like ME1, and suddenly the massive amount of warships you've picked up through the game go from ineffectual to full-on death bringers.

 

Cue awesome cut scenes of the entire Galactic forces bringing the smack down on the Reapers. In the words of Hudson from Aliens, "Game over man, game over!"

[MrFob]

I actually don't mind priority earth that much. Sure, it could have been so much more and so much better and there was a lot of wasted potential, especially because they already had a brilliant formula for how to do a final mission from the end ME2. Take that, modify it for ME3 (war assets instead of people), throw in some "in the field" encounters with ME2 squad mates et voila, done is a fantastic and epic final mission.

 

So unfortunately that didn't happen but that doesn't mean that the priority earth we got is inherently bad. I especially like how the final fight is against an army of normal enemies with environmental hazards, rather than a classic boss fight, that was well done.

BTW, opposite to Linkenski, I also really like the percussion heavy combat soundtrack.

 

No, I was all fine with priority earth. For me, the problems just started with Citadel:The Return.

[Fixers0]

From my perspective the issues with priorty earth go beyond just mission itself. the whole war assets system was doomed to fail as was any plot/storyline centred around earth. The fact that the final hours of Mass Effect 3 were litterd with various contrivances and contradictions didn't help either, there's so many things that went wrong that coul have been prevented by good edditing.

[God]

I disagree, I think conventional victory should have been the one way to defeat the Reapers, especially considering the massive force you've pulled into the battle with you. How, you ask? Well, the current version of the Crucible allows you to Destroy, Synthesis or Control the Reapers. How about instead of those three, you just hack the AI and get it to drop the shields on the Reapers? Shields down, just like ME1, and suddenly the massive amount of warships you've picked up through the game go from ineffectual to full-on death bringers.

 

Cue awesome cut scenes of the entire Galactic forces bringing the smack down on the Reapers. In the words of Hudson from Aliens, "Game over man, game over!"

 

You can't just hack an AI, especially one that is eons more advanced than you to the point where its status as an entity might transcend your very understanding of it. Personally, I think it's a cop out to have any kind of hope for conventional victory. Even if you were to miraculously beat the few hundred Reapers over Earth, you still have thousands more of them in the galaxy, and they are going to know what happened, and they are going to be pissed.

 

In the words of Hudson from Aliens when the Reapers bring the smack down on the entire Galactic forces, "Game over man, game over!"

[RedCaesar97]

You can't just hack an AI

 

Really? Because we have been doing that since ME1, both in-game and in cutscenes, and also mentioned in dialogue.

[God]

As I said, you really can't just hack an AI, especially one as advanced and sophisticated as the Catalyst. It has over a billion years of existence, in which time it has made the entire galaxy its experiment. Who knows how advanced and how powerful it is. Hell, to an extent, calling it an AI is really the only term we can come up with for a being that is clearly utterly ascendant over everyone and everything else. The only other word I can think of is 'God', but that's my job, so AI will have to do.

 

As well, you assume you have the ability to hack an AI at that point, or the time, or the knowledge of this particular entity to be even remotely effective. You certainly do not.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Reading this made me wonder - if the Normandy can just drop down in front of the beam, right in front of Harbinger, and not be shot at. Why didn't they just do this in the first place?

 

Shepard: "Hey guys, we need to make it to the beam, we'll have to travel all through London, fire off a few missiles, distract the....".

Joker: "Wait wait wait. Why don't I just fly us all in there? I can set us down right at the front of the beam. Remember that Reaper IFF we had installed? Yeah, we'll be completely invisible to them. The whole team can jump out and into the beam, right?"

Shepard: "Wait. What? That'll work?".