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Well, when you're writing minor characters you can't reveal too much or they will take precedent over the major ones in the story itself. I tend to view what we do learn about them as sort of an appetizer, if you will. Others, I'm certain, merely view it as an excuse to write horrible fanfics. But that's role-playing for ya.
Lol yea that's certainly convenient, but then, someone having backgrounds, established preferences, more detail etc to them sure doesn't stop fanfic.net or kinkmeme.
I feel the need to comment on a point made several pages back, regarding the supposed retcon of the Qun. Krem is not part of the Qun...he is one of Bull's Chargers, a mercenary group. Having Krem talk about what life was like for a non-mage in Tevinter had nothing to do with whitewashing the Qunari. I know the conversation has moved on to much less mundane issues, but this basic misunderstanding of a rather obvious fact had to be addressed, and apparently I was just the person to pick this particular nit.
Carry on... 
Makes sense,but still combating hate with more hate just gets you well more hate.
It might also be how you presented it, to be honest. In your two line OP, you manage to call him:
* dull
* cliche
* rather forced
* one of the series worst characters
In two lines. And you offer zero constructive criticism. Now you did later on, but based on that OP, I can see why people didn't really take it seriously. And, to top it off, your second post in the thread is comparing Krem to Dorian and calling both of them cliche. And, of course, there's the double entendre of the thread title: Krispy Kreme donuts and Krem gets "fried " by the Venatori mages if you kill him.
I'm not saying that you were anti-LGBT in any of those posts, but hopefully you can see how people might think that based on those posts. You managed to call two out of the six LGBT characters out for being forced and cliche and zero of the forced and cliche straight characters. I'm not saying that you have equally critique straight characters for every LGBT character that you critique, but choosing to only critique LGBT characters for something that is not only applicable to LGBT characters can come off as suspect. And, frankly, there has been alot of nasty anti-LGBT rhetoric on the boards for the past month or so, so I think people are being a little hypersensitive to it. At least that's my take on it.
I feel the need to comment on a point made several pages back, regarding the supposed retcon of the Qun. Krem is not part of the Qun...he is one of Bull's Chargers, a mercenary group. Having Krem talk about what life was like for a non-mage in Tevinter had nothing to do with whitewashing the Qunari. I know the conversation has moved on to much less mundane issues, but this basic misunderstanding of a rather obvious fact had to be addressed, and apparently I was just the person to pick this particular nit.
Carry on...
Oh no, I didn't think Krem was a part of the Qun. Bull however is, and he claimed they had a name for people who were trans and stated "Yes, they are men." Showing that they indeed have that mindset.
Bioware retcons a lot of things so it's whatever to me, I just think that if they wanted this in the game, they could have handled it better. They could have easily had Bull agree that Krem is a man and left it at that because Bull is obviously different and more accepting of people than typical Qunari.
Though to be fair, the Qunari mindset's been rather convoluted from the start so. It was never something you could point to and say "Yes, this is how the Qun is," because I think the writers tried to make it sound more mysterious than it needed to be.
Makes sense,but still combating hate with more hate just gets you well more hate.
That's completely fair and rational. The instinctive need to protect yourself from being hurt is anything but rational, though. You can only be stung by so many bees before you eventually decide "**** all bees".
I feel the need to comment on a point made several pages back, regarding the supposed retcon of the Qun. Krem is not part of the Qun...he is one of Bull's Chargers, a mercenary group. Having Krem talk about what life was like for a non-mage in Tevinter had nothing to do with whitewashing the Qunari. I know the conversation has moved on to much less mundane issues, but this basic misunderstanding of a rather obvious fact had to be addressed, and apparently I was just the person to pick this particular nit.
Carry on...
They just aren't paying attention to what Bull actually says about how the Qun would treat Krem. He explains that the Tamassrans choose the roles based on what the person is exceptional in doing, and are known to allow women born into the Qun to become warriors, etc., if they show aptitude in that skill. Not to mention they're not even considered female, but masculine according to their views regarding gender roles. So it's not really a retcon.
EDIT: Some info about this is also in the official codex.
It might also be how you presented it, to be honest. In your two line OP, you manage to call him:
* dull
* cliche
* rather forced
* one of the series worst characters
In two lines. And you offer zero constructive criticism. Now you did later on, but based on that OP, I can see why people didn't really take it seriously. And, to top it off, your second post in the thread is comparing Krem to Dorian and calling both of them cliche. And, of course, there's the double entendre of the thread title: Krispy Kreme donuts and Krem gets "fried " by the Venatori mages if you kill him.
I'm not saying that you were anti-LGBT in any of those posts, but hopefully you can see how people might think that based on those posts. You managed to call two out of the six LGBT characters out for being forced and cliche and zero of the forced and cliche straight characters. I'm not saying that you have equally critique straight characters for every LGBT character that you critique, but choosing to only critique LGBT characters for something that is not only applicable to LGBT characters can come off as suspect. And, frankly, there has been alot of nasty anti-LGBT rhetoric on the boards for the past month or so, so I think people are being a little hypersensitive to it. At least that's my take on it.
I'm kinda indifferent to Krem - with Bull being a two-hander, I feel like he's a bit redundant - though I really like how Jennifer Hale pronounces "captured."
1. I said Dorians personal quest was cliche. Not him. Please stop skewing my words
2. I offered my opinion on the character, from now on I will offer my full constructive criticism.....
3. You are making excuses for the people who made assumptions.
4. You are heavily implying I have some sort of problem with LGBT characters, I don't, Dorian was my second favorite romance.
5. You are making another assumption on the title, how about you ask what was meant by the title?
Sorry, let me clarify, I'm not saying that any of the above are true. I'm just trying to hypothesize a few reasons why people might not have been super receptive to your OP, that's all. You seem to think that people just don't want you criticizing Krem. I was just suggesting some reasons why it might go beyond that. That's all.
Just to clarify one more time: I'm not suggesting that you have issues with LGBT characters. I was pointing out how it might come off that way.
Couldn't give a fig. I talked to Krem like twice, then she died.
I'll save him in my next game I suppose.
Couldn't give a fig. I talked to Krem like twice, then she died.
I'll save him in my next game I suppose.
Sorry, let me clarify, I'm not saying that any of the above are true. I'm just trying to hypothesize a few reasons why people might not have been super receptive to your OP, that's all. You seem to think that people just don't want you criticizing Krem. I was just suggesting some reasons why it might go beyond that. That's all.
Just to clarify one more time: I'm not suggesting that you have issues with LGBT characters. I was pointing out how it might come off that way.
Oh okay, I thought so but I wasn't sure. Sorry for the lash then. I can't stand when people attack somebody as anti-LGBT when they give their opinion on a character, see it all the time with Dorian, and well this thread is a good example as well. I know you weren't doing this but others were.
I know their perspective, I get it, I CAN understand why they reacted the way they did.But, even if my intentions were malicious, how does responding with hate and anger help?
I think people just get tired and lash out, to be honest. It might not be the most helpful, but, frankly, I understand it. People want to come onto the boards to talk about the game and the characters and it's annoying to constantly see anti-LGBT rhetoric all the time. I try to be patient, but I'm not here to educate people. I don't mind doing it, but it's not my main reason for coming here. People who do mind it just get frustrated. To be honest, the past month and a half has been pretty nasty in the anti-LGBT stuff. It's probably because we got a bunch of new posters because of DA: I and they weren't aware of the zero tolerance policy that BSN has for that kind of stuff. Eventually mods will clean stuff up, but in the meantime, you get stuck looking at rude, nasty, and insensitive comments. And over time, that builds and builds until people just lash out. And then that lashing out leads to other people lashing out. It's pretty toxic and gross sometimes. But, it's human nature. I think you just got the brunt of it for some of the reasons that I mentioned above. Misunderstandings happen on both ends.
I think people just get tired and lash out, to be honest. It might not be the most helpful, but, frankly, I understand it. People want to come onto the boards to talk about the game and the characters and it's annoying to constantly see anti-LGBT rhetoric all the time. I try to be patient, but I'm not here to educate people. I don't mind doing it, but it's not my main reason for coming here. People who do mind it just get frustrated. To be honest, the past month and a half has been pretty nasty in the anti-LGBT stuff. It's probably because we got a bunch of new posters because of DA: I and they weren't aware of the zero tolerance policy that BSN has for that kind of stuff. Eventually mods will clean stuff up, but in the meantime, you get stuck looking at rude, nasty, and insensitive comments. And over time, that builds and builds until people just lash out. And then that lashing out leads to other people lashing out. It's pretty toxic and gross sometimes. But, it's human nature. I think you just got the brunt of it for some of the reasons that I mentioned above. Misunderstandings happen on both ends.
As a gay person myself, I can relate to this well. It's very annoying and tiresome to see anti-LGBT things all the time on a forum of a game that has excellent LGBT representation.
Sure I do try to be nice and educate those anti-LGBT people, but the thing is they are not here to learn and be educated.
I think people just get tired and lash out, to be honest. It might not be the most helpful, but, frankly, I understand it. People want to come onto the boards to talk about the game and the characters and it's annoying to constantly see anti-LGBT rhetoric all the time. I try to be patient, but I'm not here to educate people. I don't mind doing it, but it's not my main reason for coming here. People who do mind it just get frustrated. To be honest, the past month and a half has been pretty nasty in the anti-LGBT stuff. It's probably because we got a bunch of new posters because of DA: I and they weren't aware of the zero tolerance policy that BSN has for that kind of stuff. Eventually mods will clean stuff up, but in the meantime, you get stuck looking at rude, nasty, and insensitive comments. And over time, that builds and builds until people just lash out. And then that lashing out leads to other people lashing out. It's pretty toxic and gross sometimes. But, it's human nature. I think you just got the brunt of it for some of the reasons that I mentioned above. Misunderstandings happen on both ends.
Personally, I was more frustrated by there not being any warm glazed donuts apart from where I disagreed with the OP.
And, of course, there's the double entendre of the thread title: Krispy Kreme donuts and Krem gets "fried " by the Venatori mages if you kill him.
Krem was really important- games NEVER get trans characters, so kudos to Bioware. I thought Krem was a total bro, honestly. He's chill and isn't afraid to mention hes trans when appropriate. I mean, when mentioning his past of course he'll mention it.
Oh okay, I thought so but I wasn't sure. Sorry for the lash then. I can't stand when people attack somebody as anti-LGBT when they give their opinion on a character, see it all the time with Dorian, and well this thread is a good example as well. I know you weren't doing this but others were.
I know their perspective, I get it, I CAN understand why they reacted the way they did.But, even if my intentions were malicious, how does responding with hate and anger help?
Why is it the responsibility of the person being hated on to help it?
As a gay person myself, I can relate to this well. It's very annoying and tiresome to see anti-LGBT things all the time on a forum of a game that has excellent LGBT representation.
Sure I do try to be nice and educate those anti-LGBT people, but the thing is they are not here to learn and be educated.
Why is it the responsibility of the person being hated on to help it?
I am sorry but I don't get quite what you mean or what you are getting at.
Yeah, I was worried that wasn't clear. I spent a few minutes trying different ways of wording that sentence before I just sort of gave up and went with the one I hoped would be most clear, lol. Let me try to clarify a bit. Say there's a kid that gets bullied in school every day. It isn't the responsibility of the bullied kid to correct the bully's behavior, or to try and make that situation better. The bullied kid could choose to do so, and that's awesome, but the victim of hate absolutely should not be the one expected to correct it. That's what I mean.
It's also tiring though when someone mentions "oh I don't like Dorian." Or " Krem is cliche and boring" and gets attacked for being anti-LGBT, a troll, etc. Many on the this forum jump to these type of conclusions all the time. And I understand why. But that doesn't make it right.
Because most of the time those sentences are followed by things that essentially boil down to 'stop being so queer.' People don't accuse Sera's critics of being homophobic because they generally don't use those sort of justifications for their dislike.
That's completely fair and rational. The instinctive need to protect yourself from being hurt is anything but rational, though. You can only be stung by so many bees before you eventually decide "**** all bees".
You rang?
Because most of the time those sentences are followed by things that essentially boil down to 'stop being so queer.' People don't accuse Sera's critics of being homophobic because they generally don't use those sort of justifications for their dislike.
If you really equate "I don't like Dorian" to something someone says just before saying "stop being so queer" in so many words, you have some issues tbh.
There's no way in hell someone could connect those two, unless you assume anyone who dislikes Dorian (how the hell do you not like him tho) is a gay hater.
Yeah, I was worried that wasn't clear. I spent a few minutes trying different ways of wording that sentence before I just sort of gave up and went with the one I hoped would be most clear, lol. Let me try to clarify a bit. Say there's a kid that gets bullied in school every day. It isn't the responsibility of the bullied kid to correct the bully's behavior, or to try and make that situation better. The bullied kid could choose to do so, and that's awesome, but the victim of hate absolutely should not be the one expected to correct it. That's what I mean.
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