372 réponses à ce sujet

[TurtleTape]

Agreed.
 
I honestly doubt Krem would be a blip on anyone's radar if she wasn't trans.

He. Krem is a guy. I doubt you would go into the Cullen thread and insist Cullen's gay, so give Krem the same respect.

[Colonelkillabee]

He. Krem is a guy. I doubt you would go into the Cullen thread and insist Cullen's gay, so give Krem the same respect.

Slip up, it happens, but not on purpose. Can't help how I see things, though tbh I'm not going to bother to try. Believe it or not, what you said isn't factual. Cullen being straight is however.

 

And that's all I'll say on that since it's touchy with moderators here.

[DuskWanderer]

So...if a heterosexual character's story revolves around their sexuality, then would that be cliche, as well? If a cis character's story revolved around them not being interested in gender roles, would that be cliche? If yes, then why? If no, then why are Krem and Dorian's stories any more cliche?

 

Unless you're writing romance, you can't make a hetereosexual character's story about their sexuality. Like Isabela, that's the side dish of any story. 

 

Tomboy going into boy sports, or girly man doing girly things, is a cliche. 

[AresKeith]

Agreed.

 

I honestly doubt Krem would be a blip on anyone's radar if she wasn't trans.

 

Minor characters like Krem, Barris, Teagan, Abelas etc will always be on someone's blip

[daveliam]

Unless you're writing romance, you can't make a hetereosexual character's story about their sexuality.

 

Huh?  Why not?  Aveline's sexuality was part of her story-arc.  Her entire side quests are about setting her up in a heterosexual marriage, after she gets over losing her husband from her first heterosexual marriage.  How is that any different than Dorian's sexuality playing a role in his quest?

[Catwall]

Minor characters like Krem, Barris, Teagan, Abelas etc will always be on someone's blip

Agreed. I think that's because there's no pesky characterization to get in the way of the fantasizing.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

Huh?  Why not?  Aveline's sexuality was part of her story-arc.  Her entire side quests are about setting her up in a heterosexual marriage.  How is that any different than Dorian's sexuality playing a role in his quest?

Because he wants to be able to ignore someone's queerness and Dorian and Krem don't give him that luxury.

[Colonelkillabee]

Minor characters like Krem, Barris, Teagan, Abelas etc will always be on someone's blip

Probably true. I think it'd be significantly less here at least though if Krem wasn't trans.

 

Huh?  Why not?  Aveline's sexuality was part of her story-arc.  Her entire side quests are about setting her up in a heterosexual marriage.  How is that any different than Dorian's sexuality playing a role in his quest?

It was about the marriage, not the sexuality. That said, I like Dorian's quest. It was handled well and didn't seem cliche to me even if the subject matter was.

[Cespar]

Huh?  Why not?  Aveline's sexuality was part of her story-arc.  Her entire side quests are about setting her up in a heterosexual marriage.  How is that any different than Dorian's sexuality playing a role in his quest?

I don't think Aveline's sexuality was part of her story-arc, but I do believe it was about Aveline finding love again after losing her husband. She thought she would never be able to get over Wesley,( I think that's his name). 

[Violetbliss]

I hope Krem was a testing the waters case, as that seems to be needed in our world. I really don't mind the people of Thedas being more liberal than we seem to be, judging the controversies one reads about or sees now and then. Shouldn't be anyone's business aside from the character, and I thought it was handled well.

 

Now yes Krem is much like Scout Harding, a support character. It'd be awesome if they got even more screen time, as in that example i liked both a lot.

[daveliam]

Probably true. I think it'd be significantly less here at least though if Krem wasn't trans.

 

It was about the marriage, not the sexuality. That said, I like Dorian's quest. It was handled well and didn't seem cliche to me even if the subject matter was.

 

But her sexuality was part of that marriage, no?  Just like how Dorian's father wasn't upset about his sexuality, he was upset at his not being willing to just play nice and go into a loveless arranged marriage.  Aveline's sexuality was tangential to her story and Dorian's was tangential to his.  I see them as very similar. 

 

Sidenote;  Krem's sexuality isn't known.  We don't know if he's straight, gay, or bisexual. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I hope Krem was a testing the waters case, as that seems to be needed in our world. I really don't mind the people of Thedas being more liberal than we seem to be, judging the controversies one reads about or sees now and then. Shouldn't be anyone's business aside from the character, and I thought it was handled well.

 

Now yes Krem is much like Scout Harding, a support character. It'd be awesome if they got even more screen time, as in that example i liked both a lot.

Out of curiosity, what do mean by "testing the waters case"? 

[TurtleTape]

I don't think Aveline's sexuality was part of her story-arc, but I do believe it was about Aveline finding love again after losing her husband. She thought she would never be able to get over Wesley,( I think that's his name).

Her sexuality is part of her story arc. If she had been gay then people would have been up in arms about it calling it cliche just like Dorian's arc. Her personal quest involves her sexuality, as does Dorian's. In fact, if I wanted to be one of those people I could say that her story is horribly cliche because it involves a strong woman who "needs to marry a man to feel complete". We know that isn't true, but that isn't much different from saying Dorian's personal quest is cliche because his dad didn't approve of his sexuality.

[AresKeith]

Probably true. I think it'd be significantly less here at least though if Krem wasn't trans.

 

Maybe, maybe not we can't say for sure

[Colonelkillabee]

But her sexuality was part of that marriage, no?  Just like how Dorian's father wasn't upset about his sexuality, he was upset at his not being willing to just play nice and go into a loveless arranged marriage.  Aveline's sexuality was tangential to her story and Dorian's was tangential to his.  I see them as very similar.

So is a white dress (I... assume, lol. Aveline in a dress.... LOLOLOL) but no, the sexuality doesn't even come up, whereas Dorian's mission, it does and in a rather spectacularly emotional way... was the dad there for it, no, supposedly, but Dorian certainly seems to think so to a degree, or that it's part of his disappointment in him and why he can't allow his son to roam around as this embarrassing extension of himself.

 

Even if the father claimed it wasn't his reasoning, Dorian's relationship was damaged because of what his father wanted to do to him to change him. Or to change him period, really.

 

Aveline's was just her having a crush on a guy.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

Out of curiosity, what do mean by "testing the waters case"? 

Probably that perhaps they would consider having a trans character with a more integral part in a future installment. *coughmaevariscough*

[Colonelkillabee]

Maybe, maybe not we can't say for sure

I can. I'm calling it, not that we'll ever know lol. But I'm saying it, and I'm saying it with assurance. If the lord came down and asked if I'd bet on it, and obviously he could find out because he's the lord, I'd bet my beard on it, lol.

[AresKeith]

Moral of the story is: Every story is pretty much a cliche at this point in time

[Ryzaki]

Moral of the story is: Every story is pretty much a cliche at this point in time

 

Cliche's are only bad when they're poorly done.

[Zarro-Morningstar]

I WOULD LIKE A KRIPSY KREM, A SIDE OF CRUSTY DALISH, and SOME SALTY GRIM! Oh wait...this isn't a topic about what I thought it was...

[Cespar]

Her sexuality is part of her story arc. If she had been gay then people would have been up in arms about it calling it cliche just like Dorian's arc. Her personal quest involves her sexuality, as does Dorian's. In fact, if I wanted to be one of those people I could say that her story is horribly cliche because it involves a strong woman who "needs to marry a man to feel complete". We know that isn't true, but that isn't much different from saying Dorian's personal quest is cliche because his dad didn't approve of his sexuality.

I think both Aveline and Dorian personal quests are cliche, which I don't see anything wrong with that. I mean we're saving the world in inquisition(cliche).

[I present Chuck Bass]

Huh?  Why not?  Aveline's sexuality was part of her story-arc.  Her entire side quests are about setting her up in a heterosexual marriage, after she gets over losing her husband from her first heterosexual marriage.  How is that any different than Dorian's sexuality playing a role in his quest?

Yeah and both of those quests were bad. Dorians just felt like a story I've heard a 1000 times. Noble son, not living up to his dad's expectations, with personal choices emphasized as the division between the two, sexuality getting in the way....

It's played out, IMO.

[Esteed789]

Slip up, it happens, but not on purpose. Can't help how I see things, though tbh I'm not going to bother to try. Believe it or not, what you said isn't factual. Cullen being straight is however.

 

And that's all I'll say on that since it's touchy with moderators here.

 

Saying something like this and then refusing to discuss it seems like kind of a cheap parting shot, dude.  I know you probably didn't mean it that way, but if you really don't want to say anything on it, you probably just shouldn't say anything on it.

 

As far as Krem goes, I didn't particularly see anything wrong with him.  He wasn't somebody I was constantly running to talk to, but if I found my character in the tavern I'd usually have them stop by to say hi.  There's potential there, and I do hope to see Krem again in future games.

[daveliam]

So is a white dress (I... assume, lol. Aveline in a dress.... LOLOLOL) but no, the sexuality doesn't even come up, whereas Dorian's mission, it does and in a rather spectacularly emotional way... was the dad there for it, no, supposedly, but Dorian certainly seems to think so to a degree, or that it's part of his disappointment in him and why he can't allow his son to roam around as this embarrassing extension of himself.

 

Even if the father claimed it wasn't his reasoning, Dorian's relationship was damaged because of what his father wanted to do to him to change him. Or to change him period, really.

 

Aveline's was just her having a crush on a guy.

 

Right, and "shoving her heterosexuality down my throat".

 

Of course, I don't actually feel that way personally, but it is an example of someone's heterosexuality playing out in their story arc.  If she were a lesbian and the story played out exactly the same way, people would be saying that it's being forced on them.

[TurtleTape]

Moral of the story is: Every story is pretty much a cliche at this point in time

But it apparently only matters if it involves a minority.