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Again, yours was a request for Harding to be made an additional straight romance option, not a Dwarven one.
As for Dorian, it appears that I may have had you wrong and for that I apologise.
Does anyone else think his character is rather dull and cliche, and at times seems rather forced?
Or am I the only one who thinks he is one of the series worst characters?
No. There's nothing "forced" about him. Learning more about him on a personal level is something that is optional, not mandatory and can be avoided entirely. This question is rather ironic considering how transgender people are typically portrayed in media, especially videogames. Who he is does not revolve around his gender identity, and I think just learning about how seriously Bioware took consideration when writing Krem makes him that much more interesting.
No. There's nothing "forced" about him. Learning more about him on a personal level is something that is optional, not mandatory and can be avoided entirely. This question is rather ironic considering how transgender people are typically portrayed in media, especially videogames. Who he is does not revolve around his gender identity, and I think just learning about how seriously Bioware took consideration when writing Krem makes him that much more interesting.
See Dave, that's wrong of you..Twisting my words. I said I appreciate quality over quantity every time. Then I said unless I'm playing as my male dwarf, then quantity over quality every time. Because he is a bachelor with no morals and just wants to sleep with everyone ( aka it's called role playing).
Harding is a poor character, Krem is a poor character. In my mind Krem was poorer.. And that's why this thread is about Krem and not Harding.
Well, if you remember, I said earlier that I think it probably makes sense to you, but to me, it seems contradictory. Even after your explanation, it still seems contradictory to me.
You want Harding, "a poor character" (your words), to be a romance for your straight male dwarf based solely on her being a dwarf. Other people like Krem based solely on him being trans. My personal thoughts? Who cares in both situations? People can like whoever they like. And I don't have a problem with people criticizing Krem (I do it myself). I just find it hypocritical that your criticisms against Krem also apply to Harding, yet you actively request her as a romance option, while bash Krem.
Does that make sense? Maybe this is an agree to disagree situation. Perhaps, it would be more constructive if you explained how you would have improved on his characterization? What would you have liked to have seen for Krem's character?
Well, if you remember, I said earlier that I think it probably makes sense to you, but to me, it seems contradictory. Even after your explanation, it still seems contradictory to me.
You want Harding, "a poor character" (your words), to be a romance for your straight male dwarf based solely on her being a dwarf. Other people like Krem based solely on him being trans. My personal thoughts? Who care in both situations? People can like whoever they like. And I don't have a problem with people criticizing Krem (I do it myself). I just find it hypocritical that your criticisms against Krem also apply to Harding, yet you actively request her as a romance option, while bash Krem.
Does that make sense? Maybe this is an agree to disagree situation. Perhaps, it would be more constructive if you explained how you would have improved on his characterization? What would you have liked to have seen for Krem's character?
"Yeah ik it's optional, I'm not one of those people preaching about the agenda bioware is pushing on people. That's silly.
It was more his story arc that felt forced, and certain pieces of dialogue that felt forced and clunky in there."
It's optional. If it wasn't optional, then I'd agree, but you literally can go entire interactions in discussions with him or Bull without even bringing up his gender identity. It doesn't make sense to say that when this is considered. The only thing I found clunky was how you had to come off as a clueless imbecile just to learn more about him and his gender identity.
I can understand people not liking Krem. That's their right. Others do, and some of us can relate to the character. I can, as a Two-Spirit. Same goes with Dorian or any other character, and not just because of their race, sexuality, or gender identity. Not to mention some audiences simply gravitate toward certain characters more than they do others, like Sandal or Harding - or in respect to Mass Effect, Emily Wong(a lot of folks were mad when they killed her off over twitter).
EDIT: BSN acting up again. Edited for clarity.
Yeah ik it's optional, I'm not one of those people preaching about the agenda bioware is pushing on people. That's silly.
It was more his story arc that felt forced, and certain pieces of dialogue that felt forced and clunky in there.
Indeed, it was forced. During discussion with Iron Bull you are forced to call her 'he'. No other option to choose.
Indeed, it was forced. During discussion with Iron Bull you are forced to call her 'he'. No other option to choose.
You also can't refer to Cassandra as 'Sugar ******'. The PC is not wholly yours, it is a character you play within the confines of the writing.
You also can't refer to Cassandra as 'Sugar ******'. The PC is not wholly yours, it is a character you play within the confines of the writing.
Don't feed it. Besides, we all know Bull ain't having that even if it was optional.
You also can't refer to Cassandra as 'Sugar ******'. The PC is not wholly yours, it is a character you play within the confines of the writing.
These two are not comparable. Well, it should be much more 'mine' than not. It is quite a convenient limitation I say.
... Last time I asked why, I couldn't even get a straight answer and I was treated like a troll for asking. I mean, if you ask me why I like Cassandra, Dorian or whoever, I can tell you exactly why....
If people would just be honest as to why they liked Krem, whether it really was because Krem is trans, or because they liked Krem's stories, were attracted to Krem, whatever, then there'd be less people asking "Why?"
But it is hard to get that answer sometimes. People know what they're thinking, and they avoid being truthful because they see it as a challenge to their sensibilities or their views.
Exactly this.
Some people, who are me, think Krem is a handsome, badass warrior. And he's charmingly funny when sassin' Bull.
I know this thread is getting long, but others have answered why they like Krem (aside from being a trans character), you just aren't seeing those posts.
Some like the war stories, some like the insights into Tevinter culture, some like the cut of Krem's jib.
You also can't refer to Cassandra as 'Sugar ******'. The PC is not wholly yours, it is a character you play within the confines of the writing.
ROFL Cassandra would rip your sugar ****** off if you tried, lol.
As for the Harding business, like I said earlier it's the exact same thing. Personally, my problem is that people wouldn't even admit they liked Krem because Krem was trans. Now, if someone gave me a reason, like their stories, or they thought Krem was handsome, etc, then I didn't question that. Didn't call them a liar. But people that were just like "Why are you asking? What's the big deal?" Then it becomes obvious.
Anyway yea, I too admit I like Harding a lot, and it's pretty simply because she's cute and fun to flirt with. That's it. That's a shallow reason to like a character, but then, Harding isn't very deep anyway as presented. She's like your Kelly Chambers.
There's nothing wrong with that, but you can't get on people about Krem if you don't admit you liking Harding or Abelas or whatever is pretty much the same thing, just for different small reasons.
I know this thread is getting long, but others have answered why they like Krem (aside from being a trans character), you just aren't seeing those posts.
Some like the war stories, some like the insights into Tevinter culture, some like the cut of Krem's jib.
You just quoted a post that came after mine as if I missed it. And I was talking about other conversations.
edit: Whoops, fail nvm on the first part. See post above though.
ROFL Cassandra would rip your sugar ****** off if you tried, lol.
As for the Harding business, like I said earlier it's the exact same thing. Personally, my problem is that people wouldn't even admit they liked Krem because Krem was trans. Now, if someone gave me a reason, like their stories, or they thought Krem was handsome, etc, then I didn't question that. Didn't call them a liar. But people that were just like "Why are you asking? What's the big deal?" Then it becomes obvious.
Anyway yea, I too admit I like Harding a lot, and it's pretty simply because she's cute and fun to flirt with. That's it. That's a shallow reason to like a character, but then, Harding isn't very deep anyway as presented. She's like your Kelly Chambers.
There's nothing wrong with that, but you can't get on people about Krem if you don't admit you liking Harding or Abelas or whatever is pretty much the same thing, just for different small reasons.
*ahem* There were things you could do with Chambers that you can't with Harding. Not to mention that infamous way she thanks you for saving her from the Collectors.
*ahem* There were things you could do with Chambers that you can't with Harding. Not to mention that infamous way she thanks you for saving her from the Collectors.
Well yea, but she was still a rather minor character. She was on the ship, she kept your goldfish alive. Eventually, lol. And she went stripper girl in your room. There was more to her than that of course and she had more to her than Harding, but the point's the same.
And then you bang her in a crate. Top-tier romance, right there. Right out in the middle of a refugee camp.
Oh, I wasn't aware you were talking to no one/about anyone, thanks for letting me know.
Irrelevant posts are much of the charm that is BSN.
It's my fault. I obviously gave you the impression that I read your posts. I consider it my responsibility to fix this, so I will correct the misunderstanding. It's the internet: I come, read three words, mock, and leave. Just like God intended.
Well yea, but she was still a rather minor character. She was on the ship, she kept your goldfish alive. Eventually, lol. And she went stripper girl in your room. There was more to her than that of course and she had more to her than Harding, but the point's the same.
I have to say; they did redeem her in ME3 by giving her more relevance. But you missed the sarcasm in what I said. I'm still wondering how that pole got installed into Shepard's quarters. I think when it comes to minor characters, it's that not really having an extensive backstory like major ones would lends them a kind of intrigue and mystery if executed properly. I think the fact that some people want to know more about them is a part of their success. Everybody is dying to learn more about Sandal, for instance, and I would love to see how Abelas turns out in the future. I also liked Gatt alot, since he really gives an interesting perspective on life under the Qun with the little information we do learn from him.
Don't feed it. Besides, we all know Bull ain't having that even if it was optional.
Well, considering that there is a customisation in DA:I then I would not mind a qunari mount on the wall. I 'ain't having that' from an animal.
You should just be able to critique Krem without getting the replies " you just don't like Krem because he is transgender"
I've noticed this over the course of the thread. It's dumb.
I think part of the problem is that many people have used similar criticisms as a mask for trans hate. After a while, it becomes hard not to see all criticism as this.
Out of curiosity, what other video game has a character like Dorian? I've seen his kind of story played out in tv and movies, but never in video games before. And, frankly, I kind of like being able to see it in this medium. If you know of other stories like this (since it's played out), I'd love to know about them so I can go buy them and play them too.
The actual content of the quest aside, what I really like about a lot of BioWare companion quests is that many of them don't involve combat. This entire arc with Dorian involves no combat whatsoever, just cinematic scenes where you're talking to people.
Are there other games that do this? My game knowledge is very limited.
I think part of the problem is that many people have used similar criticisms as a mask for trans hate. After a while, it becomes hard not to see all criticism as this.
I have to say; they did redeem her in ME3 by giving her more relevance. But you missed the sarcasm in what I said. I'm still wondering how that pole got installed into Shepard's quarters. I think when it comes to minor characters, it's that not really having an extensive backstory like major ones would lends them a kind of intrigue and mystery if executed properly. I think the fact that some people want to know more about them is a part of their success. Everybody is dying to learn more about Sandal, for instance, and I would love to see how Abelas turns out in the future. I also liked Gatt alot, since he really gives an interesting perspective on life under the Qun with the little information we do learn from him.
I heard that before too and I have a bit of a problem with the idea that someone can make a character with little to them and be liked because people imagine more 
It is a fair point though, I just imagine writers would be rather perplexed by that.
I guess it gives people more legroom to fantasize.
I heard that before too and I have a bit of a problem with the idea that someone can make a character with little to them and be liked because people imagine more
I guess it gives people more legroom to fantasize.
Well, when you're writing minor characters you can't reveal too much or they will take precedent over the major ones in the story itself. I tend to view what we do learn about them as sort of an appetizer, if you will. Others, I'm certain, merely view it as an excuse to write horrible fanfics. But that's role-playing for ya.
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