184 réponses à ce sujet

[Pasquale1234]

The thing is, Liara was portrayed as shy and inexperienced when dealing with people, especially with those of other species. I have some trouble imagining such a character to start a job that requires constant dealings with people and excel at it.

When you first bring her aboard the SR1, she expresses lack of experience with humans - but being aboard an Alliance vessel for awhile would solve that. She is also very shy and awkward wrt romance due to her inexperience. Aside from those things, she's actually very chatty, especially when it comes to sharing information.
 

 

(comm room chat starts ~ 4:35)

 

ETA:  Sorry about the off-topic tangent.  People interpret characters differently, and we don't always agree with the direction a fictional character is taken by the writers.  Ultimately, they are whatever the writers say they are - the rest is just headcanon / fanfic.

[Rasande]

I'm sorry but just beacuse she's chatty dosen't mean she's socially competent, talking on endlessly about the areas she's knowlegable about is pretty standard nerd behaviour.

She's insecure and socially akward beacuse she prefered her books over people, she fits a pretty standard nerd cliché bless her. Also considering she's that awkward at 106(dealing with humans or no) and how she mention that her people consider her a child tells me Asari live long lives but are slow to mature and change as aposed to say, Salarians that do the opposite. Which makes the 2 years she has to reinvent herself to the point of beeing one of the most respected people in one of the most socialy demanding proffesions i can think of even more ridiculous.

And that's only the personality part.

 

But you're right, she is what the writers says she is, and they decided since she's a popular LI to make her abit more interesting and cool so she became the Shadow Broker(i mean, where do they acually go with that storywise apart from a tidbit of info here and there). And who cares if it dosen't really make much sense to transform that fast beacuse the only people who give a crap are geeks like us and we'll buy the game and like it anyway!

 

I think Liara maturing and hardening over the course of the series is good character development, but  going from shy nerdy librarian to one of the most respected information brokers in the span of 2 years is just plain bad writing.

[Drone223]

I think Liara maturing and hardening over the course of the series is good character development, but  going from shy nerdy librarian to one of the most respected information brokers in the span of 2 years is just plain bad writing.

This, the whole thing was just contrived and felt really forced. It would have been much better writing to introduce a new character who actually has experience as a information broker, and have Liara work with said character instead of making Liara become one of the best information brokers in the span of 2 years with no training or experience being one what-so-ever.

[Pasquale1234]

I'm sorry but just beacuse she's chatty dosen't mean she's socially competent, talking on endlessly about the areas she's knowlegable about is pretty standard nerd behaviour.
She's insecure and socially akward beacuse she prefered her books over people, she fits a pretty standard nerd cliché bless her.

I'm a textbook introverted nerd. I'm also quite capable of being highly social when I want or need to be.
 

Also considering she's that awkward at 106(dealing with humans or no) and how she mention that her people consider her a child tells me Asari live long lives but are slow to mature and change as aposed to say, Salarians that do the opposite.

I think a lot of that is relative. From my perspective, at my age, a 20 year old is 'barely more than a child' - because I know how much they will learn, grow, and change over the course of their lifetimes.
 

Which makes the 2 years she has to reinvent herself to the point of beeing one of the most respected people in one of the most socialy demanding proffesions i can think of even more ridiculous.
And that's only the personality part.

I don't understand why people think an info broker needs to have a Ph.D. in interpersonal skills. The actual SB we met in the DLC certainly didn't.

It seems to me like the job primarily requires connecting the dots between networks of intel agents.

Some do cold-calling - like the call Shepard received from an SB agent in ME1. Others probably go inside, for example, join a merc band to find out what they're up to. Some agents probably have a lot of their own informants in different areas. The Broker collates the info they report, figures out who might be interested in buying it, and sends an agent to offer it for sale.

Shrug.

[Linkenski]

Mass Effect 3:

 - Reduce number of evolutions from 6 to 4 (from 'three choices of two' to 'two choices of two')

 - Reduce max level/XP so you have a more limited power set, allowing for more unique and varied builds.

 - Remove weight capacity from the cooldown formula. Can add cooldown bonuses to class passives to compensate.

 - Bring back the enemy protections mechanic FULLY from ME2 instead of the weird half-assed thing we got in ME3. On Hardcore/Insanity, I want enemies to have varied protections and my weapons/power choices to mean something.

 - Remove the power combo system. While fun and neat, it diluted gameplay.

 - Either remove weapon I-X system OR let me fully upgrade a weapon to X in one playthrough OR reduce weapon levels to I-V to match mods levels.

 - Let all mods and weapons and armor appear in shops so I can actually get them all by the end of the game. 

 - Bring back Collectors as an enemy faction. Their base was destroyed, but surely they had more ships?

 - Make Cerberus/Illusive Man more sympathetic instead of outright evil. More 'One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter' instead of outright evil.

 - No Earth missions. Make it take place on the Citadel or in Dark Space.

 - Defend the Missile Battery sequence was awesome, but have the Reapers throw all enemy factions at you: Geth, Collectors, Reaper-fied troops, indoctrinated Cerberus agents/alien species/whatever. 

 - No choose-your-own-unskippable ending. More in line with ME1/ME2: have the ending more or less set, with you choosing the outgoing dialogue in the aftermath.

 

I remember having an alternative ending idea at some point revolving around what the crucible does, because I always felt that the plot needed to subvert it after it's banal introduction to the overarching plot in ME3 as a "superweapon". It was probably way too far-fetched and tone-breaking like the current ending to have been good but anywho:

 

Instead of being some sort of weapon or blast that destroys, controls or changes what it touches, the Crucible was an energy-link to dark-space. At the end Shepard would basically travel alone in a cylinder-shaped energy-beam sort of like the one that took him up to the Citadel in the first place but one which would take him to a place far beyond our comprehension, and to some kind of core of where the Reapers came from. Arriving you'd get a sense of how incomprehensible and unreal and alien dark space was and here there'd be 'some way' of simply stopping the Reapers (this is the part where my idea sort of falls apart).

 

Basically you'd get a glimpse of the Reapers' true nature and origin but without really giving us a concrete answer but reaffirming that they are creatures that are beyond what normal organic species would ever be able to understand and that the universe was far, far bigger and far more different than anyone could imagine. (the thing that made the Reapers so interesting as the central conflict IMO)

 

In order to stop the Reapers, Shepard would need to sacrifice himself and he already had to know that going up with the Crucible-beam.

 

Cinematically I thought of a slow-mo-feeling ride through space zoomed out with the beam moving horizontally across the picture with shepard as a tiny ant in the middle and the "Wake Up" music from the Extended Cut OST.

 

I think I realize, writing this, that the thing I always liked about the endings ever so slightly was that, while a lot of people argue that the entire Citadel: The Return part is weird and hazy and "WTF" I always appreciated that aspect of it because it foreshadows the fact that we are getting into the centre of the Reaper infestation and that we are about to learn the true nature of them; alien unknowable and ominous. The whole "We'll win this war!" tone needed to be dropped for the final bits when the Reaper motives were to be explored.

[Drone223]

@Pasquale1234: The SB was yahg who are basically a species that has the intellegence of a salerian combined with the brute strength of a krogan. We also see that on Sur'kesh that a yahg was able to escape from a containment cell which indicates that as a species they are fast learners. This is not the case with Liara or the asari for that matter since they have long life spans and generally prefer to take their time.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

ME2 - Change the suicide mission to No one gets left behind. No deaths.

Change combat to ME3 style.

ME3 - ME2 LI get full love scenes. Do it. And Jacob doesn't cheat. Change take back earth to a suicide mission. Full squad including ME2 squadmates with mandatory deaths. End boss battle. Fire crucible, dead reapers. No catalyst, no red green blue bullsh*t. This is an action hero ending. It's been a power trip for the player the entire way, finish it right. Shepard saves the galaxy and gets the girl/guy in the end. Yeah, cheesy, so what? The whole series was a guilty pleasure. End it the right way.

[Drone223]

ME2 - Change the suicide mission to No one gets left behind. No deaths.
Change combat to ME3 style.
ME3 - ME2 LI get full love scenes. Do it. And Jacob doesn't cheat. Change take back earth to a suicide mission. Full squad including ME2 squadmates with mandatory deaths. End boss battle. Fire crucible, dead reapers. No catalyst, no red green blue bullsh*t. This is an action hero ending. It's been a power trip for the player the entire way, finish it right. Shepard saves the galaxy and gets the girl/guy in the end. Yeah, cheesy, so what? The whole series was a guilty pleasure. End it the right way.

tbh a happy ending would be just as bad as he orginal endings as it wouldn't fit the situation of the game, the reapers's should be defeated but not without huge cost.

[Rasande]

-snip-

 

Sure, but this is about Liara who happens to be abit of a cliché and specifically mentions that she's not good with people beacuse she spends all her time at digs or reading and like i said i think an information broker would need exeptional social skills to be the best in the galaxy.

Especially since she started from nothing ,i got the impression that the buissnes is pretty cut-throat and she needs to know how to play people to get what she wants ,that takes abit more than your avarage Joe day-to-day social skills, she needed to start from somewhere right?

You have a point that her intelligence and acedemic backround would've helped when it comes to organizing and such but that would only take her so far since she acually needs to get some information to begin with and knowing how to apply it to be one of the best takes abit extra in my mind.

I dunno, i never read the comic leading to ME2 so i find the change rather sudden.

 

We didn't really see much of the yagh but i got the impression that this is someone the writers want me to think is highly intelligent and even suave despite his apperance, besides he kind of strong armed his way to the possition. Everything he needed was already there and he'd learned from the previous broker, all he needed to do manage his operative.

 

 

Not really sure what you were getting at with this part

"I think a lot of that is relative. From my perspective, at my age, a 20 year old is 'barely more than a child' - because I know how much they will learn, grow, and change over the course of their lifetimes."

 

That it's relative was kind of my point, asari are considered mature enough to leave their parents homes at 60, 2 years is barely a blink for them, and if she's that socially awkward at 100 how much can she possibly grow in the next 2 years? A human maby, but they seem to mature and change very slowly. Well, except Liara apparently.

[CronoDragoon]

1. I would mirror ME3's combat in ME1 and ME2.

2. I'd take out the Terminator baby at the end of ME2.

3. I'd rework Cerberus's role in ME3 to be more of a neutral ally than an outspoken antagonist. You could still work in a falling out at the end of the game to resolve TIM's arc if you decide to Destroy the Reapers.

4. I'd give Kai Leng a gun instead of a sword.

5. I'd rework ME3's roster slightly: Tali (tech), Liara (bio), Garrus (tech/soldier), Miranda (bio/tech), Vega (soldier), Javik (bio/soldier). I'd keep the VS as an important non-squad character, and I'd keep EDI as the Normandy's AI without a body. The reintroduction of Miranda to the squad also meshes well with the above Cerberus change as she justifies her role on the Normandy as the liason to Cerberus.

 

That's about it.

[wolfhowwl]

Drop Shepard's death since nothing was done with it anyways.

Meaningfully deal with Cerberus' nature instead of chickening out/whitewashing them. Sometimes you have to work with bad people, we don't need to pretend they aren't bad.

Legion and Tali should be mandatory ME2 party members. The former should introduced earlier.

ME2 final choice should be who to hand the Human Reaper to. Cut that terrible boss fight.

Move Cerberus "betrayal" to Thessia. Cut Cerberus coup and their earlier role can be filled by other indoctrinated forces.

[Drone223]

Drop Shepard's death since nothing was done with it anyways.
Meaningfully deal with Cerberus' nature instead of chickening out/whitewashing them. Sometimes you have to work with bad people, we don't need to pretend they aren't bad.
ME2 final choice should be who to hand the Human Reaper to. Cut that terrible boss fight.
Move Cerberus "betrayal" to Thessia. Cut Cerberus coup and their earlier role can be filled by other indoctrinated forces.

Agreed with the Cerberus part I hate the fact Shepard has to defend Cerberus and his/her excuse in lotsb is just horrid.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

tbh a happy ending would be just as bad as he orginal endings as it wouldn't fit the situation of the game, the reapers's should be defeated but not without huge cost.

 

The galaxy is in ruins. Tens of Billions of people are dead. You were shooting at them. Killing them a second time. But I guess that is not a cost to you. Why isn't that a cost? Because of the abomination aesthetic of the game that made indoctrinated people into husks and monsters. You may have had to sacrifice either the geth or the quarians - that isn't a cost? You may have had to sacrifice the Krogan because you didn't trust Wreav. That isn't a huge cost?

 

WTF do you consider a huge cost?

[Cknarf]

The Mako should have been recovered from Alchera and put back into service.

 

That's all I would change.

[Drone223]

The galaxy is in ruins. Tens of Billions of people are dead. You were shooting at them. Killing them a second time. But I guess that is not a cost to you. Why isn't that a cost? Because of the abomination aesthetic of the game that made indoctrinated people into husks and monsters. You may have had to sacrifice either the geth or the quarians - that isn't a cost? You may have had to sacrifice the Krogan because you didn't trust Wreav. That isn't a huge cost?

WTF do you consider a huge cost?

I never said that what happen in the war in ME3 isn't a huge cost (it is a huge lost) I'm just saying that a happy ending will only undermine that.

[SilJeff]

Completely replace Mass Effect 2's plot with one that actually furthers the overall story instead of being a side quest on steroids, and thus take some of the load off of 3. And change 3's plot accordingly.

No more "ah yes, reapers. We have dismissed that claim" bs

[Drone223]

With Cerberus Bioware wanted to depicted them as a morally grey organization. But instead through the trilogy they are depicted as a bunch of pro-human mad scientist who carry out questionable experiments for the sake of it.

I think in terms of morally grey covert organizations the STG are much better depicted as being such a group. If bioware are going to have another go with the morally grey pro-human black ops group they should be more akin to STG than Cerberus.

[wolfhowwl]

Completely replace Mass Effect 2's plot with one that actually furthers the overall story instead of being a side quest on steroids, and thus take some of the load off of 3. And change 3's plot accordingly.

No more "ah yes, reapers. We have dismissed that claim" bs

 

There's an obvious way to still have ME2 further the story and change very little.

 

Switch the end choice from blow up/irradiate the base to choosing who gets the Human Reaper which can be used to research the Reapers' weaknesses. As it is the Paragon option doesn't really make sense and also lets players blow up the plot.

[Jaron Oberyn]

Make the games a bit more fluid when progressing from one another. And fix the whole reset relationships with each title mess. Other than that, the games were perfect.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I never said that what happen in the war in ME3 isn't a huge cost (it is a huge lost) I'm just saying that a happy ending will only undermine that.

 

I don't think so. Dad returning home from a war doesn't undermine the cost of a war.

[Drone223]

I don't think so. Dad returning home from a war doesn't undermine the cost of a war.

Your right about that but if people are more interested in seeing Shepard walk of into the sunset with his/her LI then it would undermine it since people care more about Shepard and co. rather than the galaxy at large. A reflection of the wars cost would be more fitting ending since it better fits with the tone of the game.

[RayD3MSoC]

- Delete Mass Effect 2

- Spread Mass Effect 3's plot (uniting the galaxy and fighting the reaper war) over 2 games

 

Mass Effect 2 seems rather pointless when you are supposed to be preparing for a galaxy wide war.  Should you really be spending a whole game concerned with the fate of a few human colonies with a full scale Reaper invasion about to happen?  The terminator boss was dumb.  Really? I spent a whole game trying to stop that? Why?  Mass Effect 3 had the opposite problem - way too much to do in one game, and it felt rushed because of it.

 

I also really wish we had an equivalent to the new DA Keep system.  That way if I wanted to play ME3 with a couple different decisions, I wouldn't have to replay the first two games.

[Vazgen]

Your right about that but if people are more interested in seeing Shepard walk of into the sunset with his/her LI then it would undermine it since people care more about Shepard and co. rather than the galaxy at large. A reflection of the wars cost would be more fitting ending since it better fits with the tone of the game.

I'll agree with Julia here. Having a "walk into the sunset" scene to even the current endings would've resulted in much less outcry. As for caring about war, the game focuses on Shepard and his crew. It's quite natural for players to care more about his fate, especially since the most information on war comes in the form of numbers. Compare the resulting feelings if Kai Leng kills Thane or a Salarian Councilor. The second option has a much larger impact on the war but the attitude towards Kai Leng is pretty neutral which is bad for antagonist character. The first option makes players "highly dislike" Kai Leng which is good. 

[themikefest]

 Tali and Legion are not required to achieve peace between the geth and quarians. 

 

Every squadmate can die regardless of ems

 

Have Joker admitted to the looney bin when he says there's no regulation that says I can't date the ship's ai

 

Have the Citadel coup and Thessia missions switched

[LisuPL]

I would fix the annoying LOW RESOLUTION TEXTURES.

Sorry, but ME3 already looked ugly with it's textures, I felt like 80% of detail is being lost due to that - blurry armors/clothes/weapons/geometry of levels...

 

Also I would make every teammate from M2 play a big role in ME3... yes, even Jacob.

 

And finally I would have turned Turians into non-gay race sooner, by introducing female turians already at the outset of ME3.