179 réponses à ce sujet

[Elhanan]

A great deal of what occurs in the Hinterlands, Emprise du Lions, and others evolves from the past game, as is re-launched by rather compelling cut-scenes and involvement dealing with those suffering due to the War. And then Mother Giselle remains alongside the remaining game to update you on the status of said victims. Of course, one does need to speak with her and gather such info.

The entire Red Templar and Venatori confrontation spans from the city of Redcliffe and subsequent events. And it involves large sections of interaction, cut-scenes, etc.....

Just because one is asked to perform some minor tasks which are optional, the 'whole' and 'never' exaggeration teams come to complain once again.

Now I do not frequent the TW3 forums, but am guessing that those that dislike Bioware have been speaking of this fetch quest problem, and their team is now trying to fix their own before launch.

[LinksOcarina]

The point isnt about the side quest having anything to do with the main plot. The point is that at least the side quest in KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect, Dragon Age: Origins, Mass Effect 2, Dragon Age 2, and Mass Effect 3 were all quest that had deeper elements thaN what DAI had.

KOTOR had the Taris duel arena. It had the Datooine family fued, lost droid, murder trial etc...

Mass Effect had the Major Kyle cult quest, Asari Consort, Citadel rogue VI, the Hostage takeover etc....

I can continue on but I am crunched for time. Yes, the games listed above had their share of fetch quest, but they were balanced with other, more engaging quest with cinematic dialog and branching decisions/outcomes.

DAI had NOTHING like this. The side quest in this game were all entirely fetch quest similar to a MMO.....like SWTOR.

 

That is arguable, because Inquisition has a number of quests that fit the vein of what you are talking about. The Blades of Hessarian, The Emerald Graves quests involving Fairbanks, Emprise Du Leon and Michel, The Mage/Templar conflict in the Hinterlands being optional to complete; all of that is pretty good stuff too, that had several long mission chains and actually had goals and choices involved in them, plus you see the effects in-game. 

 

The difference is a lack of cut-scenes, which was an interesting choice in the end. I think most of the issues stem from that because it makes blocking the scenes less memorable than say Mass Effect, which had scene after scene at times to contend with.

[Farangbaa]

Frostbite 3 --> Shooter engine
Mass Effect --> RPG shooter

I have always been excited for ME4. DA:I has only increased this, as ME's gameplay has always been more suitable for Frostbite 3 than DA will ever be. Though, to be honest, I think they did a rather nice job turning a shooter engine into something that can carry an RPG.

As for the opening post: lol.

[X Equestris]

The point isnt about the side quest having anything to do with the main plot. The point is that at least the side quest in KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect, Dragon Age: Origins, Mass Effect 2, Dragon Age 2, and Mass Effect 3 were all quest that had deeper elements thaN what DAI had.
KOTOR had the Taris duel arena. It had the Datooine family fued, lost droid, murder trial etc...
Mass Effect had the Major Kyle cult quest, Asari Consort, Citadel rogue VI, the Hostage takeover etc....
I can continue on but I am crunched for time. Yes, the games listed above had their share of fetch quest, but they were balanced with other, more engaging quest with cinematic dialog and branching decisions/outcomes.
DAI had NOTHING like this. The side quest in this game were all entirely fetch quest similar to a MMO.....like SWTOR.

DAI had plenty of quests like that. Typically, they were the main quest of each zone. And since you bring up the first Mass Effect, I want to say that most of the quests in that game were worse than anything in DAI.

[Majestic Jazz]

DAI had plenty of quests like that. Typically, they were the main quest of each zone. And since you bring up the first Mass Effect, I want to say that most of the quests in that game were worse than anything in DAI.

DAI had plenty of quest that is of similar depth as the Sandral vs Mantele KOTOR sidequest, or the murder trial? Please please give examples because I must have oversaw these sidequest.

[X Equestris]

DAI had plenty of quest that is of similar depth as the Sandral vs Mantele KOTOR sidequest, or the murder trial? Please please give examples because I must have oversaw these sidequest.

I'm saying that DAI has just as many interesting side quests as the first Mass Effect.

[Nohvarr]

DAI had plenty of quest that is of similar depth as the Sandral vs Mantele KOTOR sidequest, or the murder trial? Please please give examples because I must have oversaw these sidequest.

Oh you mean like Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts when you have to prevent an assassination while maintaining court approval. That was a lot of fun and a nice change of pace.

[Majestic Jazz]

 

 

The difference is a lack of cut-scenes, which was an interesting choice in the end. I think most of the issues stem from that because it makes blocking the scenes less memorable than say Mass Effect, which had scene after scene at times to contend with.

 

I have to agree with this. I really believe the lack of cut-scenes really added to the "bore" that a the sidequest had. Instead of using dialog and cutscenes to tell the story, we were just given letters from dead bodies to catch up on whats going on.

 

Imagine how more emotional or personable the "Templars took my husband's ring" quest could have been if it was done in cinematic dialog with nice ambient music to compliment. We could have seen the sorrow on the face of the widow as she told us her story, similar to the mother in Samara's loyalty mission in ME2. A lot of the urgency and emotion from the quest givers weren't there because of the lack of cinematics which detached us from their experience.

[Nohvarr]

I have to agree with this. I really believe the lack of cut-scenes really added to the "bore" that a the sidequest had. Instead of using dialog and cutscenes to tell the story, we were just given letters from dead bodies to catch up on whats going on.

Really? I didn't have that problem at all. Perhaps it's because I played BG2 enhanced edition and more recently Shadowrun Returns: Dragonfall Director's cut, neither of which needed cinematic cutscenes to get me invested in a quest. Honestly, using less conversation cut scenes is a good idea. It gives Bioware a chance to focus  their cinematic direction on a few choice scenes instead of having to do something for every single one.

 

Now if Bioware wants to follow in Deus Ex Human Revolutions footstep and turn every conversation into an exercise in reading people to best figure out how to manipulate them towards your own ends, that's fine. However that is not a direction they appear to be interested in going at present

[Phoe77]

I'm going to be honest and say that I don't remember a thing about the kotor quests that keep being mentioned.  It's been a couple of years since I played the game, but you'd think I'd have an inkling about them if they were that memorable.

 

I also never had much trouble getting invested in many of the sidequests.  I don't feel for the widow any less because she doesn't have a cinematic.  To be honest, it's such a minor sidequest that a cinematic would strike me as unnecessary or even wasteful.  I don't know what kind of resources go into adding cinematics, but I imagine it would be rather taxing to add one for every quest.  

[Nohvarr]

I'm going to be honest and say that I don't remember a thing about the KOTOR quests that keep being mentioned.  It's been a couple of years since I played the game, but you'd think I'd have an inkling about them if they were that memorable.

I'm in a similar boat, though I do understand that different things stick with different people when playing a game. The one thing I clearly recall about KOTOR was that Taris was too damn long and annoying. With KOTOR: The Sith Lords, the moment that sticks out in MY mind was the option to use battle meditation to tip the scales in loyalist foces favor during a battle before the Queen of a planet. I liked that part because it allowed me to influence a influence events without doing everything myself again. With Kingdom Hearts 2...it's rescuing Piglet on the Blustery day and the entire Space Paranoid section of the game and some of the Drive Forms.

[Phoe77]

Upon consideration, I remember doing something regarding a trial in Manaan, but I don't remember who was on trial or what the charges were.  I'm sure they were good quests and I'm sure that people loved them.  I just would think that if they really caused players to get so invested in them then I would remember them better.  

 

The things I remember most about kotor are the companion quests.  For kotor 2, for some reason many of the things on Nar Shaddaa stand out to me.  I don't know why.

[Majestic Jazz]

Really? I didn't have that problem at all. Perhaps it's because I played BG2 enhanced edition and more recently Shadowrun Returns: Dragonfall Director's cut, neither of which needed cinematic cutscenes to get me invested in a quest. Honestly, using less conversation cut scenes is a good idea. It gives Bioware a chance to focus their cinematic direction on a few choice scenes instead of having to do something for every single one.

Now if Bioware wants to follow in Deus Ex Human Revolutions footstep and turn every conversation into an exercise in reading people to best figure out how to manipulate them towards your own ends, that's fine. However that is not a direction they appear to be interested in going at present

All of ME trilogy was cinematics and yet I never felt that key scenes were lacking due to the entire game using cinematics.

[In Exile]

Upon consideration, I remember doing something regarding a trial in Manaan, but I don't remember who was on trial or what the charges were. I'm sure they were good quests and I'm sure that people loved them. I just would think that if they really caused players to get so invested in them then I would remember them better.

The things I remember most about kotor are the companion quests. For kotor 2, for some reason many of the things on Nar Shaddaa stand out to me. I don't know why.

All of Nar Shadda was like this awesome noir detective story.

[Il Divo]

All of Nar Shadda was like this awesome noir detective story.

 

Nar Shadda was absolutely amazing, barring the Atton detour. I think they did a great job of incorporating side quests into the plot. I also loved watching all the bounty hunters claw past each other to get to the Exile. 

[pdusen]

Imagine how more emotional or personable the "Templars took my husband's ring" quest could have been if it was done in cinematic dialog with nice ambient music to compliment. We could have seen the sorrow on the face of the widow as she told us her story, similar to the mother in Samara's loyalty mission in ME2. A lot of the urgency and emotion from the quest givers weren't there because of the lack of cinematics which detached us from their experience.

 

That's utter crap. All we got for these sidequests in DA:O were close-ups of static, expressionless characters doing stock animations while they spoke over the level's own background music; in other words, the exact same freaking thing we got in DA:I, except without the closeup part. Any additional sense of emotion you got from those scenes was the product of your own imagination.

[Elhanan]

Only an example, but my fave sidequest in Skyrim is the one where the DB investigates the death of a family at a lighthouse. No cut-scenes; one must read the journals to get a glimpse into the story.

One should not require a movie to spark the imagination; words have been doing this for much longer, and with great effectiveness. If one cannot take the time to read entries, this falls on the Player (myself included when I skip them); not the design team.

The best separation from DAI took place when the others delayed their release until the next year. Then perhaps both can claim the GOTY awards.

[Majestic Jazz]

That's utter crap. All we got for these sidequests in DA:O were close-ups of static, expressionless characters doing stock animations while they spoke over the level's own background music; in other words, the exact same freaking thing we got in DA:I, except without the closeup part. Any additional sense of emotion you got from those scenes was the product of your own imagination.

Similar to what we got in KOTOR and Jade Empire and yet they were more immersive than the 3rd person over the shoulder camera we got in DAI.

[Nohvarr]

Similar to what we got in KOTOR and Jade Empire and yet they were more immersive than the 3rd person over the shoulder camera we got in DAI.

Apparently not everyone feels as you do about that.

 

As for myself, this:

 

 

 

Is not particularly Immersive

 

Zero Punctuation labels this...Bioware Face and sadly after seeing it mentioned it's hard to unsee when I play older Bioware games.

 

Only an example, but my fave sidequest in Skyrim is the one where the DB investigates the death of a family at a lighthouse. No cut-scenes; one must read the journals to get a glimpse into the story.

 

I've been playing around with Dark Souls and that game relies more on atmosphere to tell it's story than anything else. Actually, System Shock and Bioshock also avoided cutscenes but managed to tell a compelling story by relying on found diaogue and atmosphere. I think there's something to be said for getting things across without resorting to detailed cutscenes.

[AresKeith]

People still taking this thread serious?

[Nohvarr]

Now this:

 

 

and this:

 

 

Is the kind of thing I think of when I hear the term "immersive conversation"

 

People still taking this thread serious?

 

....well no, but it's fun to poke my head in now and again and see what new argument is being flung about.

[Cyonan]

Human Revolution had such a great dialogue system you could probably make an entire game with that as the central mechanic, to be honest.

[Nohvarr]

Human Revolution had such a great dialogue system you could probably make an entire game with that as the central mechanic, to be honest.

Technically...they already did.

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XHZXkvxKCk

[DEUGH Man]

It's going to have filler. Every RPG has it's own unique kind of filler. They brought over some design decisions from ME3 to DAI that were sort of interesting. They're experimenting with their style, and their choices will be hit or miss. You know, typical Bioware. It's going to be different from past Bioware games and the same in some ways.

[pdusen]

Similar to what we got in KOTOR and Jade Empire and yet they were more immersive than the 3rd person over the shoulder camera we got in DAI.

 

That's a matter of opinion. And it's still crap.