179 réponses à ce sujet

[Farangbaa]

As long as the filler's not of the same deplorable quality of ME1, I'm fine with it.

Sure, those empty planets with the same structures everywhere (and idential mines... lol)] were strange and new the first time, but about halfway round the first run (or at the start of your second) they started to get really annoying and boring. But they literally filled that game with emptyness
 

That's utter crap. All we got for these sidequests in DA:O were close-ups of static, expressionless characters doing stock animations while they spoke over the level's own background music; in other words, the exact same freaking thing we got in DA:I, except without the closeup part. Any additional sense of emotion you got from those scenes was the product of your own imagination.

Give this man a cookie.

As for the whole cutscene thing: they are terribly hard on resources to develop. I don't know much about programming, but you can clearly see that they are rendered within the areas, not loaded seperatly. Or in other words, the cutscene is not a loose item that gets loaded up and fired off. You can see this pretty well by barriers wearing off during the cutscenes or level up/power up/influence effects showing up during the cutscene.

As said, I don't know much about programming, but I can quite easily imagine that this is the reason why adding a species like the Dwarfs is such a strain on resources. Camera angles have to to be adjusted, the characters focus of view has to be adjusted etc. Providing as much content as DA:I does and having every conversation wrapped in a nice cutscene is most likely impossible to do within any reasonable time frame.

[cronshaw]

Yeah, I know, this topic like many of my other topics are full of hyperbole, but I still think there is some substance in it. As you may have known by now, Bioware's GM Mr. Aaryn Flynn said that Dragon Age: Inquisition will NOT be a template for what to expect with Mass Effect 4. Personally, I say thank god!

 

Now depending on your stance, you may view this in different ways. Some would view this as Bioware wanting to make it clear that ME4 would be its own unique style of game, despite the great success of DAI and the urge that many people would want ME4 to simply be a copy & paste of DAI with Mass Effect skin and story.....the same way some people want the new Star Wars: Battlefront to be a copy & paste of Battlefield with Star Wars skin. That would be a positive way of looking at Mr. Flynn's comments.

 

Some others would view this as Bioware trying to separate ME4 from DAI due to some of the negative feedback that DAI has and the concern that this style of gameplay would find itself into ME4. Concerns such as to name a few....

 

- A MMO-style experience that DAI has

 

- The lack of cinematics that DAI suffers from regarding the over used "over the back" camera style used to cut down on cinematics in order to create large worlds.

 

- Large worlds with much filler content and not much stuff that directly ties into the story other than fetch quest and the emphasis on telling the story of a world through notes/letters rather than through character dialog. This ties back into the 1st point.

 

- 100+ Hour game with only about 15-20 of those hours being true story content while the rest is just filler. Many of the large worlds in DAI does not host any story content at all! Again, linking back to the first point.

 

 

Now before I finish, let me just point out that during last summer, Bioware made it be known that ME4 WOULD be taking some core design elements from DAI. Read here

 

 

So, what do you take of this regarding the future of DA and how it appears that that Bioware is trying to separate ME4 from DAI despite the "success" of DAI.

I think the people that populate this forum have an inflated opinion of the impact they have on BioWare's decisions

[turuzzusapatuttu]

I think the people that populate this forum have an inflated opinion of the impact they have on BioWare's decisions

So true, so sad.

[ThreeF]

 Any additional sense of emotion you got from those scenes was the product of your own imagination.

It's psychological, we are used to watch and evaluate other people expressions when we are talking to them or when they are talking to us, so it's weird when you suddenly can't do this. In older games you don't notice this much because you are stuck reading tons of text.

 

The 3d person perspective also has another limitation, you and whoever you are talking to end up standing like sticks while discussing things that involve an array of emotions.

 

Imo the various tiny quests in DAI don't need cutscenes, there are hardly any lines spoken for them anyway, but the larger, especially area related ones would benefit from something similar to the Mother Giselle encounter cutscene. It would make things more engaging, like for instance there could be a cutscene of the Avvar guy taunting you or ssomething when you enter the castle ruins in Fallow Mire, without it he is just another random mook to be killed off. It would be nice if Servis had more screen time, I didn't even realized who I was fighting until his healthbar turned green and I was suddenly talking about sending him to trial.

[CronoDragoon]

That's utter crap. All we got for these sidequests in DA:O were close-ups of static, expressionless characters doing stock animations while they spoke over the level's own background music; in other words, the exact same freaking thing we got in DA:I, except without the closeup part. Any additional sense of emotion you got from those scenes was the product of your own imagination.

 

I don't think that's entirely fair. I also feel that Origins' side quests on the whole did a better job at getting me invested, and I think it's a combination of a few things:

 

1. Seeing the questgiver's face is naturally going to make me more sympathetic to their plight and help me identify with them more. Somehow I still remember what Bella looks like from the Redcliffe tavern in Origins, which is pretty crazy. Meanwhile the best side quest in Inquisition is, arguably, Still Waters, and if it wasn't for the judgment at the end we'd be hard-pressed to pick the Mayor out of a crowd. I still can't quite recall his face seeing as the Judgment is over pretty quickly.

 

2. The side quests in Origins (not all of them, of course, but the story-centered ones like Bella above) had more dialogue options. Now, Inquisition's world is huge, many times over bigger than Origins, and it needs to populate those zones with quests. Accordingly the dialogue is probably more spread out there, whereas Origins could afford a bit more complexity in its dialogue options.

 

Having said that, Inquisition has some really memorable quests with NO dialogue. In particular, the quest in the Graves where you investigate why a girl's body is at the bottom of a cliff really stands out to me.

[Farangbaa]

Having said that, Inquisition has some really memorable quests with NO dialogue. In particular, the quest in the Graves where you investigate why a girl's body is at the bottom of a cliff really stands out to me.

Or the entire Hissing Wastes.

[SofaJockey]

To those grumbling about 'fetch quests' perhaps we should revert to the revered Baldur's Gate

for examples of how to integrate side missions without filler:

 

Candlekeep is a bit like the Hinterlands, the first area with significant questing content...

• Fetch Quest to retrieve an Identify scroll from Tethtoril
• Fetch Quest to retrieve a book, "The History of Halruaa", from a haystack for Phlydia
• Fetch Quest to retrieve an antidote for Dreppin's sick cow, Nessa.
• Fetch Quest to buy a quarrel of crossbow bolts for Fuller.
• Storehouse: kill five mice inside.

Well done Baldur's Gate, no fetch quests there.

 

oh, hang on....

[Hurbster]

Be fair, Candlekeep is tiny.

[Majestic Jazz]

I think the people that populate this forum have an inflated opinion of the impact they have on BioWare's decisions

Same can be said about both people who complain and those who defend Bioware.

Even if what I say does not affect Bioware, does that mean we have to just be silent and only let the "positive" opinions be heard?

[wolfhowwl]

To those grumbling about 'fetch quests' perhaps we should revert to the revered Baldur's Gate

for examples of how to integrate side missions without filler:

 

Candlekeep is a bit like the Hinterlands, the first area with significant questing content...

• Fetch Quest to retrieve an Identify scroll from Tethtoril
• Fetch Quest to retrieve a book, "The History of Halruaa", from a haystack for Phlydia
• Fetch Quest to retrieve an antidote for Dreppin's sick cow, Nessa.
• Fetch Quest to buy a quarrel of crossbow bolts for Fuller.
• Storehouse: kill five mice inside.

Well done Baldur's Gate, no fetch quests there.

 

oh, hang on....

 

I'm sure you know that it is actually Baldur's Gate II that people so revere.

 

Anyways people might hold a developer's first effort to different standards than a big budget outing from a studio with over fifteen years in the genre.

[Medhia_Nox]

@CronoDragon:  Yeah, but no cutscenes!!! 

 

The next Bioware "game" should just be a questionaire that then plays out like a movie. 

[cronshaw]

Same can be said about both people who complain and those who defend Bioware.

Even if what I say does not affect Bioware, does that mean we have to just be silent and only let the "positive" opinions be heard?

did I tell you to be silent?

If lack of agency caused people to be silent on the Internet it would be a very quiet place

[Scerene]

Same can be said about both people who complain and those who defend Bioware.

Even if what I say does not affect Bioware, does that mean we have to just be silent and only let the "positive" opinions be heard?

haha that is so true, what is it with the people who insist that we shouldnt be posting our thoughts just because we dont gush about the game evey 5 secs. Nobody really assumes BW cares what we write or that they even read it. If youre a long time BW forum lurker or poster, naturally you are going to be posting things regarding their games. I dont post on forums dedicated to other games i dislike, but unlike those games, ive been playing all of bws and followed their work for ages, so naturally im going to be interested in talking about it, even when i dont like it.

[Scerene]

did I tell you to be silent?

If lack of agency caused people to be silent on the Internet it would be a very quiet place

you suggested it indirectly. Your asseration that we post things cuz we assume bw cares could as easily be applied to the people gushing about them, which is what Jazz was saying. Why do you gush about it even though nobody cares?   its just as pointless as us ranting about it.

[pdusen]

Same can be said about both people who complain and those who defend Bioware.
Even if what I say does not affect Bioware, does that mean we have to just be silent and only let the "positive" opinions be heard?

I'm not here to defend Bioware so much as to point out when people are being ridiculous. I acknowledge that there is room for improvement.

[WillieStyle]

I'm sure you know that it is actually Baldur's Gate II that people so revere.

 

You mean the game whose opening act required you to run errands around Amn in order to raise XX gold to pay a thieves guild to find your sister?

[Lebanese Dude]

You mean the game whose opening act required you to run errands around Amn in order to raise XX gold to pay a thieves guild to find your sister?

 

That reminds me of DA2

[pawswithclaws]

That reminds me of DA2

Can't be, remember - there were no fetch quests in DA before DAI!

[Lebanese Dude]

Can't be, remember - there were no fetch quests in DA before DAI!

 

I hate that term so much....carries so much negative connotation... ><

[pawswithclaws]

I hate that term so much....carries so much negative connotation... ><

Not to mention that it's pretty much meaningless as most quest in an RPG is some form of "fetch" quest. And sometimes you BRING stuff there instead of back.

[SofaJockey]

As the Elementalist complains in DAMP'

 

'Are we done playing fetch?'

 

[Lebanese Dude]

As the Elementalist complains in DAMP'

 

'Are we done playing fetch?'

 

 

I mean those are ACTUALLY fetch quests because they're tasks with little overarching context and no purpose that provide rewards upon completion. Even WoW, the MMO people love comparing everything to, has zone quest lines that are really interesting and well-connected despite being often basic "fetch quests".

 

The SP ones rarely qualify...even the most glaring example as in the drufallo escort quest had some comedic purpose in being used as a tank for the waterfall rift.

 

 

I need to make a thread...

[Lebanese Dude]

Not to mention that it's pretty much meaningless as most quest in an RPG is some form of "fetch" quest. And sometimes you BRING stuff there instead of back.

 

I know!!!

[SofaJockey]

The SP ones rarely qualify...even the most glaring example as in the drufallo escort quest had some comedic purpose in being used as a tank for the waterfall rift.

 

I loved the Druffy escort quest.

What? You could use the Druffalo as a tank??? I hadn't thought of that? How did that work?

[wolfsite]

Same can be said about both people who complain and those who defend Bioware.

Even if what I say does not affect Bioware, does that mean we have to just be silent and only let the "positive" opinions be heard?

 

The problem is a lot of the negatives feel more like personal preference in games rather than actual issues.

 

Just because someone says "It's on offline MMO" doesn't make it so just as someone who says "Game is perfect" doesn't make it so.

 

All these criticisms seem to be flowing more on how to define a concept in order to validate a concern with the game which makes it look like people are stretching to find something to complain about, hell the "Fetch" concept only came up recently because of someone from another development team poking jab (which is funny considering how guilty there game series has been of fetch quests in the past, plus the fact that fetch quests have been a part of gaming for years long before even the original DA:O was released).

 

Honestly the Fetch quest thing for me sounds like "You are complaining about something that has been in gaming for ages."

hell Red Coins in Mario 64 can be seen as a fetch quest

Heart Pieces in the Zelda Series can be seen as a fetch quest

Crowns in Legacy of the Wizard can be seen as a fetch quest

The majority of the Witcher is a fetch quest

 

So lately it feels like people are arguing more about definition of concept rather than critiquing the game itself which lessens the overall discussion.