49 réponses à ce sujet

[Deadly dwarf]

In my second run through of DA: I, I chose to be a mage.  And they gave me the option of additional training, I chose Knight Enchanter.  When using fire, ice, or electricity as weapons, there's a corresponding staff to each of those areas.  But what of Knight Enchanter?  What staff works best for the Knight Enchanter abilities?  Or will each type of staff work equally well?

 

Also, just curious as to how most people judge the Knight Enchanter abilities?  I find the moves more defensive in nature.  Only the ability that allows you to use your staff as a light saber seems to be purely offensive.  You then have a stealth function that allows you to sap enemy strength by walking through them while in stealth.  The other two abilities are more defensive -- one sets up a barrier and another heals your comrades. For more offensive fighting, it seems to me that you still need fire, ice, or electric abilities.  Or am I missing something?

[Elhanan]

I chose Spirit magic, and prefer to remain at range using three Storm spells to keep Barrier intact, as well as performing AoE, CC, and direct damage. Have also read that Fire magic works well, too.

As for staves, I use whatever is best for my choices of damage and bonuses, and I keep one of each elemental type for myself, and one of each type as backup for my other two party Magi for a total of five in inventory and three in use.

And there are plenty of posts that are simply fond of closing and utilizing Spirit Blade for almost everything.

[Exalus]

I would choose lightning staves because there seems to be less lightning immune enemies where as most dagons are fire or cold immune. It can also shock which when combo'ed with weaken will cause sleep.

 

For a KE I would take most of the fire tree and static cage+. Spirit blade will do more sustained dps than just about any spell short of firemine. 

[iheartbob]

I'm running a knight enchanter storm mage with a fire based staff. I tend to play from range. Between my fire-based energy barrage and chain lightening, I can get decent damage in on most enemies and keep my barrier up consistently thanks to the multiple hits they both generate. I also have most barrier enhancing passives, since barrier is one of the main focuses of KE. I haven't really used fade cloak much, but I'll probably switch it out with fade step once I get the upgrade.

 

And I only use spirit blade when enemies close in on me, or when I'm facing rage demons (the only enemy that gives me an issue with my fire staff + energy barrage).

 

My general attack rotation goes as follows:

- Static cage with clustered enemies at the start of the battle followed by either the fire energy barrage or chain lightening.

- Basic attacks

- Support with barrier as needed

- Spirit blade when enemies close in

- Rince, repeat.

 

This build has worked really well for me on Nightmare. And I'm not spamming spirit blade nearly as much as I thought I would.

[Elhanan]

I'm running a knight enchanter storm mage with a fire based staff. I tend to play from range. Between my fire-based energy barrage and chain lightening, I can get decent damage in on most enemies and keep my barrier up. I also have most barrier enhancing passives, since barrier is one of the main focuses of KE. I haven't really used fade cloak much, but I'll probably switch it out with fade step once I get the upgrade.
 
And I only use spirit blade when enemies close in on me, or when I'm facing rage demons (the only enemy that gives me an issue with my fire staff + energy barrage).
 
My general attack rotation goes as follows:
- Static cage with clustered enemies at the start of the battle followed by either the fire energy barrage or chain lightening.
- Basic attacks
- Support with barrier as needed
- Spirit blade when enemies close in
- Rince, repeat.
 
This build has worked really well for me on Nightmare. And I'm not spamming spirit blade nearly as much as I thought I would.

I highly recommend the upgraded Fade Cloak for when things get close, esp for the imagined looks of Terrors when they land on top of you. Look for their green swirls to appear near you, then lock and load. *Bamf*

[iheartbob]

I went down the left side of the KE tree first for the barrier passives, so the upgrade will be on my next level up. And then it's getting switched into the rotation.

[Phoebus]

Since my mage is a knight-enchanter I don't use range auto-attacks very often. In combination with the </b>winter</b> tree it deals more damage with frost staffs by keeping shield on max. Your ghost-blade deals more damage to block and shield so fighting dragons is better in melee position.

[Akkos]

Fire staffs + Clean burn and Chaos focus + spirit passives (Strengths of Spirit) = Massive basic attack damage and more barrriers with fade shield passive..

 

Chain Lightning is also good to build up barriers quickly.

 

 

 

And more with spirit blade obviously.  For defense and tank, Ice armor if you wish.

[Rynas]

In my second run through of DA: I, I chose to be a mage.  And they gave me the option of additional training, I chose Knight Enchanter.  When using fire, ice, or electricity as weapons, there's a corresponding staff to each of those areas.  But what of Knight Enchanter?  What staff works best for the Knight Enchanter abilities?  Or will each type of staff work equally well?

 

Damage type only matters when dealing with immune enemies.  If your main damage spells are fire, then it can be a good idea to use a non-fire staff in order to have some versatility.  It's not the biggest deal in the world because Spirit Blade and Fade Cloak are spirit damage, and nothing is immune to that.  FYI, Energy Barrage uses your staff damage type, even though it's a Storm spell.

 

 

Also, just curious as to how most people judge the Knight Enchanter abilities?  I find the moves more defensive in nature.  Only the ability that allows you to use your staff as a light saber seems to be purely offensive.  You then have a stealth function that allows you to sap enemy strength by walking through them while in stealth.  The other two abilities are more defensive -- one sets up a barrier and another heals your comrades. For more offensive fighting, it seems to me that you still need fire, ice, or electric abilities.  Or am I missing something?

 

Fade Cloak isn't stealth (enemies can still see you).  It just makes you immune to damage and lets you walk through things.  If you take the upgrade, it becomes one of your best offensive abilities.

 

You can get through most fights with just Spirit Blade and Fade Cloak, but maximizing your damage potential or CC means taking spells from other trees (like any other mage).

 

KE passives look "defensive," but what they really do is turn all of your offense into offense + defense.  That's what makes them so powerful and easy to play.  You can concentrate on dealing as much damage as possible and automatically not have to worry about dying.

 

Fire staffs + Clean burn and Chaos focus + spirit passives (Strengths of Spirit) = Massive basic attack damage and more barrriers with fade shield passive..

 

That's not how those abilities work.  Clean Burn only activates when casting spells, not basic attacks.  Chaotic Focus works with fire spells, not basic attacks with a fire staff.  Strength of Spirits has no effect on the Chaotic Focus bonus.

[Deadly dwarf]

Many thanks for all the thoughtful replies!  A lot of things this newb didn't consider...  I may have to buy another of the special amulets that allow you another shot at choosing abilities.

[Rizilliant]

Static Cage upgraded is amazing.. Not just for CC, but every single attack arc to every enemy inside. Your main target takes your attack, plus that arc from the cage effectively doing double hits with each attack! 

 

Even non CC enemies, Dragons,bears,vargests,etc. Theyll take the additional dmg from your attacks, even though theyre immune to the CC...

[JaegerBane]

Fire staffs + Clean burn and Chaos focus + spirit passives (Strengths of Spirit) = Massive basic attack damage and more barrriers with fade shield passive...

What rynas said. Clean burn and Chaotic Focus have no effect on your staff's attacks. On top of this, Strength of Spirits is a really bad choice if you're relying on Fade Shield and Chaotic Focus - Focus works on shield percentage, while Fade Shield works on an absolute value of what 30% of your Attack damage was. Taking Strength of Spirits simply means you have to do more damage to get your shield charged up to a certain percentage.

[actionhero112]

Fire is the best staff damage type for a two reasons: 

 

-Best crafting material creates a fire staff

 

-Burning is the only status that increases your dps 

 

For Static Cage to be as efficient as say, chain lightning which bounces 6 times when upgraded for a total of 1500% weapon damage you will need to hit the target or targets within a static cage 30 times. 

 

This is of course, possible to do with multihit abilities, but it's hardly as good as everyone says it is. Combined with it's long cooldown and high mana cost, it's not quite as good as everyone says. 

[DarkAmaranth1966]

I run primarily inferno with KE. Immolate, fire mine and wall of flame. But I have Ice Mine, mind blast and Energy Barrage as well (in case of resistance/immunity) I use a fire staff because the best mats that get the highest DPS make a fire staff. I rune with either cleansing or corrupting because those are more generalized than elemental or demon or, dragon runes.

 

The spirit blade is in case one won't stay away, and to reset my cooldowns and barrier in boss/dragon fights, not my primary means of attack. I stay at range as much as possible.

[Sidney]

The best way is to stay away from the KE. As much as I like the class in theory -- it is the only melee and ranged capable class -- it is so overpowered that just makes the game a real joke to play.

[draken-heart]

I would say there is not "right build" best way to use the KE specialization, except taking abilities that allow you to fill your barrier efficiently. You can choose which abiltiies to use (Such as E.Barrage for Single Target, and CL for AoE or just Fire mine everything) but keeping Spirit blade and Ungraded Fade Cloak as staples are pretty much essential. remember that KE is a Mage capable of surviving melee combat, so plan it accordingly.

[JaegerBane]

Fire is the best staff damage type for a two reasons:

-Best crafting material creates a fire staff

-Burning is the only status that increases your dps

Technically true, but with a few caveats:

- You'll likely only get enough Dragonbone to make a decent Tier 3 after slaying around 5 Dragons, so you'll only get it in the high teens level range at earliest
- While Dragonbone does do the best damage, it's only best by a few DPS - enough to justify a Dragonbone Staff over Dawnstone but not enough to justify switching element if you weren't using a fire staff already, and your spell selection is set for that element in mind
- While Burning does directly improve DPS, Shocked indirectly improves it via elemental weakness it inflicts and the on-hit damage to nearby opponents effect it has... I suspect that which one pulls ahead depends on your other spells. The only debuff that doesn't improve DPS is Chilled. Burning also doesn't stack, and things like Immolate are better at applying it.

For Static Cage to be as efficient as say, chain lightning which bounces 6 times when upgraded for a total of 1500% weapon damage you will need to hit the target or targets within a static cage 30 times.

This is of course, possible to do with multihit abilities, but it's hardly as good as everyone says it is. Combined with it's long cooldown and high mana cost, it's not quite as good as everyone says.

I guess the big thing in Cage's favour is that it dual-roles as both a CC power that prevents opponents from running away, and a damage amplification that adds to existing AoE effects in one power that costs the same to cast as Winter's Grasp and Flashfire. I agree it's not the be-all and end-all but it is nonetheless the best non-spec CC spell in the game.

[actionhero112]

Technically true, but with a few caveats:

- You'll likely only get enough Dragonbone to make a decent Tier 3 after slaying around 5 Dragons, so you'll only get it in the high teens level range at earliest
- While Dragonbone does do the best damage, it's only best by a few DPS - enough to justify a Dragonbone Staff over Dawnstone but not enough to justify switching element if you weren't using a fire staff already, and your spell selection is set for that element in mind
- While Burning does directly improve DPS, Shocked indirectly improves it via elemental weakness it inflicts and the on-hit damage to nearby opponents effect it has... I suspect that which one pulls ahead depends on your other spells. The only debuff that doesn't improve DPS is Chilled. Burning also doesn't stack, and things like Immolate are better at applying it.
 

- When we're talking about best, we're assuming the best. 

 

- According to Rynas, weapon damage means a lot more than you or I originally thought. 

 

- Hm good point, however it's irrelevant due to the fact that you can build a KE with access to both statuses. 

 

 

I guess the big thing in Cage's favour is that it dual-roles as both a CC power that prevents opponents from running away, and a damage amplification that adds to existing AoE effects in one power that costs the same to cast as Winter's Grasp and Flashfire. I agree it's not the be-all and end-all but it is nonetheless the best non-spec CC spell in the game.

 

Arguable considering firewall, but I'll give it to you that they're tied in terms of cc. 

[draken-heart]

- When we're talking about best, we're assuming the best. 
 
- According to Rynas, weapon damage means a lot more than you or I originally thought. 
 
- Hm good point, however it's irrelevant due to the fact that you can build a KE with access to both statuses. 
 
 
 
Arguable considering firewall, but I'll give it to you that they're tied in terms of cc.

I think we all know that weapon damage is more important that most, because weapon damage directly correlates with ability damage (higher the weapon damage, more damage from abilities). Other than that, no issue here.

and Firewall + Static Cage = supercool CC combo.

[swk3000]

The best way is to stay away from the KE. As much as I like the class in theory -- it is the only melee and ranged capable class -- it is so overpowered that just makes the game a real joke to play.

I disagree with you. Mainly because the Knight Enchanter specialization *isn't* overpowered. If it was, you would be able to solo the game with just it; you wouldn't need any other skills from other trees. Personally, though, I haven't heard of anyone soloing the game with only the Knight Enchanter tree, so either it simply hasn't been done yet (something I find hard to believe), or the specialization isn't as powerful as people like to think.

So why all the complaints about how overpowered the Knight Enchanter specialization is? To put it bluntly, it's because they're being stupid. They take skills and passives that seem to work well together, then proceed to faceroll everything. They then cry, "KE is OP; don't use!" The problem is, if anything is overpowered, it's not the specialization; it's the synergy they discovered. The stupid bit (which I didn't even realize until it was pointed out by Jaegerbane, though he was much more diplomatic about it) is that they're getting mad *because their build is doing exactly what it was designed to do!*

Now, I don't mind you giving advice on what to stay away from to keep the game from becoming too easy, even if it seems otherwise. It's just that I disagree with telling people that Knight Enchanter is overpowered when it's not. Tell them to stay away from Chaotic Focus as a Knight Enchanter and I'll offer my agreement. Tell them to stay away from the Inferno tree and I'll clarify that Chaotic Focus combined with Fade Shield can make the game too easy. Just don't tell them that Knight Enchanter is overpowered when it's not.

[Meave]

I disagree with you. Mainly because the Knight Enchanter specialization *isn't* overpowered. If it was, you would be able to solo the game with just it; you wouldn't need any other skills from other trees. Personally, though, I haven't heard of anyone soloing the game with only the Knight Enchanter tree, so either it simply hasn't been done yet (something I find hard to believe), or the specialization isn't as powerful as people like to think.

 

oh but you can even on nightmare...

 

just get barrier, with spirit blade you get pretty much invincible (30%of your dmg converts to barrier strength) and do even more dmg to shield or guard so if any enemy pops it, it turn that monster into healing potion. Get some masterwork with guard on hit and most important heal 25% od dmg over 10 seconds which makes you immortal. I only use spirit blade and occasionally missile barrage (or how it's called). You can also use frost mine and put it slightly behind you so you get another 50% dmg reduction from frost armor passive. And that's pretty much it, you can solo dragons with it, but it need some practice cos dragons can be hard to hit with melee attacks.

 

just get those spells - teleport (dash you forward), barrier, spirit blade, missile barrage and fireball (great against stealth opponents - if you hit them when they are in stealth they appear and you can see their siluete moving around and if you miss you won't lose mana) and then get as many passives as you can. But don't pick the one which makes half of your barrier disappear to empower fire spells.

 

for the OP and the staff dmg type. If doesn't really matter cos spirit blade dmg is physical and it only adds 1/4 of the dmg from dmg source of your staff but if you want best staff, pick electricity and keep spare either fire or cold in inventory so you can change when fighting tough specific opponents.

 

and for the companions pick either Blackwall or Cassandra with shield spec, Sera (her spec is overpowered as hell - cost free abilities with no cooldown for 8seconds...) with dual blade and whatever mage you like for extra barrier and you pretty much won't need potions at all (give everyone 25% heal over 10seconds, guard gain on hit and disable potions for everyone but tank) and even if some other character get hit, don't hel them after combat, they heal on their own)

 

this setup if working like a miracle for me on Nightmare just get lvl 2 and then lvl 3 weapon as soon as possible, the game is really easy and enemy UI is stupid

[swk3000]

First, I didn't mean soloing the game as a Knight Enchanter; I meant soloing the game as a Knight Enchanter with only the Knight Enchanter tree. No points spent in other trees at all. However, that's my bad; my post wasn't clear on that, and I apologize for that.

Second, the strategy you posted is simply another example of the build doing exactly what it was designed to do. Like the Chaotic Focus build, it's an example of the synergy between the Knight Enchanter specialization and whatever else you paired with it.

EDIT: also, Spirit Blade doesn't inflict physical damage; the tooltip specifically says it inflicts Spirit damage, which is elemental.

[JaegerBane]

- When we're talking about best, we're assuming the best.

- According to Rynas, weapon damage means a lot more than you or I originally thought.

- Hm good point, however it's irrelevant due to the fact that you can build a KE with access to both statuses.

As I said, everything you mentioned was quite true, I just felt that a reader would need to keep certain things in mind. A player is going to be deciding which element to use long before they can make a Dragonbone staff to benefit from it, and regardless of how much effect damage has, there's only so much an extra 2 points of damage is going to do.

As for elemental debuffs, sure, it's easy to do just that and have all three options on your KE, but it's still cheaper to inflict burning (35 mana, anything but Flashfire) and Chilled (nothing, Frost Step) compared to Shocked (50 mana, chain lightning). It isn't that big a deal, but it boils down to what the player is weighing up for their choice.

As for Wall of Fire - it's definitely one of the best, but i found Paralyse worked far better with combos, Fade Cloak and melee than Fear. If nothing else, I didn't have to chase after them I suppose you can pair them together for massive CC though. Is it worth having both on a KE?

[Bigdawg13]

Arguing the potential of the knight enchanter on the basis of ONLY using the knight enchanter tree is ridiculous.  It's like arguing the potential of a computer on a single feature, e.g. the cpu. 

 

I spec'd my lvl 20 Vivianne as how I would play her, and it quickly became a one-trick pony.  Either don't be in melee range and use normal mage spells, or get into melee range and spam spirit blade.  Every so often I was able to use fade cloak, but quickly found I was always too low on mana for anything other than spirit blade.  And at that point, you cannot die, but are just spamming one button until something dies.

 

It felt like I was playing a champion with one button and perma-walking fortress.  That really sums it up.  I know people can mix it up, and if you avoid melee range then playstyle is more varied and versatile.  But with the exception of the focus ability, the knight enchanter requires melee range.  

[JaegerBane]

 I spec'd my lvl 20 Vivianne as how I would play her, and it quickly became a one-trick pony.  Either don't be in melee range and use normal mage spells, or get into melee range and spam spirit blade.  Every so often I was able to use fade cloak, but quickly found I was always too low on mana for anything other than spirit blade.  And at that point, you cannot die, but are just spamming one button until something dies.

It's this kind of thing which perpetuates the myth that KEs are hopelessly overpowered, rather than open to overpowered synergies. There's no way in hell that any KE build would be able to both run out of mana in melee while doing enough damage just with spirit blade to permanently maintain your barrier, unless you only ever fought one opponent at a time, you'd specifically gimped the build, and used a staff stronger than is possible to craft. 300% damage is not enough to sustain a barrier under any kind of assault, that's what the point of Fade Cloak is, and with combat clarity, you're not going to empty your mana pool just casting 10 and 20 mana spells by themselves.

While it's true that the KE can be overpowered, it needs a specific set of passives from Inferno to allow spirit blade to drop Fade Cloak's cooldown to the point where it can be spammed, and upgraded Fade Step to guarantee you can get into a melee. It isn't some one-button-wonder where you just click the win button.