125 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

Is the Veil a natural phenomenon? I somewhat got an impression that it hasn't always been existed in Thedas' history.

The comics confirmed that there was a time before the Veil when dragons ruled the skies.

[Frocharocha]

The comics confirmed that there was a time before the Veil when dragons ruled the skies.

Yup and Dragons are more magical than animals themselfs. It's very psosible that solas was the responsible for separating the veil and the realm of mortals. I wonder why the humans, dwarvens etc just ask to spirits if they know about the past of thedas.

[MisterJB]

Do you figure Solas will be an enemy in DLC?

Considering he killed a character that had been one of the great mysteries of DA, you'd think his plan would merit him being the primary antagonist of DA4.

However, I don't see Bioware just having the next protagonist kill many Inquisitor's LI. Of course, by that same logic, it's hard to see Bioware making an LI an antagonist we must defeat.

[Lethaya]

I caught onto this, too. The replay value of Solas's dialogue alone is just fantastic. XD

 

 

Never got this conversation....nut yeah that is the impression I got from his other conversations in general. Or at least it is step 1 of his plans. Step 2 involves waking up the elven gods that are asleep (probably in mirrors....probably in the Black City). I believe step 3 is essentially, oh maker we are all doomed.

Funny you should mention that....if you "complete" the romance with Solas there is a banter between Cole and Solas regarding Solas's reasoning for breaking off his relationship. During the conversation, Cole reads Solas and one of the lines he says is effectively "If she is real, then that means they are all real, and that changes everything." My interpretation of that line has basically boiled down to, Solas does not view those living in the physical world as being "real" allowing him to justify the plans that he inevitably has....

 

Ooh, yeah, I never got it either (even though my main was an elf who romanced him), but that does sound rather...incriminating, doesn't it?

 

It's almost similair to the In Hushed Whispers scenario - or at least it is if this is accurate. This world is just another abomination (and then it was, to be fair!). He could view the current world and its events as obstacles, but little else at this point (besides perhaps Lavellan), and wish to "reset" the world to how it should be, or how it was before... whatever the heck he did way back when. XD Even if doing so will destroy everything that currently is, it doesn't matter because they aren't real to begin with.

 

I hope not though. The romantic implications alone would be painful enough!

[sim-ran]

He mentions on more than one occasion that the world would be better if there was no Veil. And the implication of his story as the Dread Wolf is that he was the one who created it in the first place.

Oh my God! I feel really stupid now for never realising what that "trapping them in their domains" thing could be a metaphor for creating the veil!

[Antergaton]

Oh my God! I feel really stupid now for never realising what that "trapping them in their domains" thing could be a metaphor for creating the veil!

 

If they are really trapped in their domain and that domain is the fade then why the hell are they just not wandering around the fade? Any mage could have met them, how is it demons have no issue crossing the veil into weak human mages when they dream? If they wanted out they'd easily get out.

 

Easiest explanation as to what Solas did was trap them in their eluvian worlds, Morigan said there are many and the eluvians lead there, many are corrupt or broken gateways so people, even powerful Elven gods, may not be able to get out.

[Ranadiel Marius]

If they are really trapped in their domain and that domain is the fade then why the hell are they just not wandering around the fade? Any mage could have met them, how is it demons have no issue crossing the veil into weak human mages when they dream? If they wanted out they'd easily get out.

Easiest explanation as to what Solas did was trap them in their eluvian worlds, Morigan said there are many and the eluvians lead there, many are corrupt or broken gateways so people, even powerful Elven gods, may not be able to get out.

What seems (to me at least) to be the best explanation based on all the Solas dialogue is that the Elvhen gods are trapped in Eluvians that are hidden in a part of the Black City that Cory never reached. The Veil being created to either protect the mirrors from outside interference or to prevent anyone from reaching the Blight that was also sealed there.

[Antergaton]

What seems (to me at least) to be the best explanation based on all the Solas dialogue is that the Elvhen gods are trapped in Eluvians that are hidden in a part of the Black City that Cory never reached. The Veil being created to either protect the mirrors from outside interference or to prevent anyone from reaching the Blight that was also sealed there.

 

The first bit was good, then you started talking about the Black City, Blight and the veil. Confirm any of those things and The Maker is not real, so none of that will ever be mentioned. Yet just stick to gods being trapped in Eluvian realms and no issues, these realms are new to us and are open to interpretation/speculation.

[Ranadiel Marius]

The first bit was good, then you started talking about the Black City, Blight and the veil. Confirm any of those things and The Maker is not real, so none of that will ever be mentioned. Yet just stick to gods being trapped in Eluvian realms and no issues, these realms are new to us and are open to interpretation/speculation.

O.o Too late? We know Cory encountered concentrated blight in the Golden City from his diaries in the Temple of Dumat. I also think there is a Sola's/Cole conversation that hints that the mirrors are in the Golden/Black City (I'd have to double check on that conversation though). However Solas being responsible for the Veil is implied and I imagine will be confirmed whenever he gives his true back story.

[Heidirs]

I like this theory and think it's very plausible. I'm not sure what Solas hopes to achieve by it, but I think it's very likely that is his goal. 

 

There is a theory that Solas didn't lock away the old Gods as "he-he, I'm so clever" kind of thing that the Dalish legend portrays, but more of a the old gods were waging a war and Solas saw that as destructive. He worried it would destroy the elves. So he locked the gods away to stop them from destroying elven civilization.  Then he goes to sleep and wakes up to realize the elves have completely fallen apart anyway. So he wants to restore the old Gods to help lead the ancient elves back to what they once were.

 

I'm not sure how opening the Fad ties into that (the old gods being spirits or spirit-linked might work), but that's the theory.

 

In regard to Solas' care to other races... I believe he's made it clear that he only cares for the ancient elves. He says in a conversation that the elves are not his people. Whatever race you play as Inquisitor he talks about how your people are impetuous and blind and he has little respect for them - except for you. Solas' doesn't appear to care for anyone long term except for the ancient elves.

 

That said, in game, Solas approves of little acts you do to help people, regardless of who they are - so maybe there are little layers there. His main goal is for the ancient elves but he generally approves of helpful act regardless of who to? I don't know.

 

In regard to Mythal - the developer notes state that she intended to let Solas have her power so long as she could pass on the essence of her godhood. She meant that originally for Morrigan. Given that Morrigan won't take it, it's possible she'll try to pass it on to someone else. I've been told - though I haven't confirmed - that post the end of the game, you can find some woman in Val Royoux talking about dreams she's been having about Mythal calling to her. So, I think it's entirely plausible that while Solas stole Mythal's power, the essence of her godhood is still floating around out there and looking for someone to latch on to. So Mythal isn't done. 

[noxpanda]

If they are really trapped in their domain and that domain is the fade then why the hell are they just not wandering around the fade? Any mage could have met them, how is it demons have no issue crossing the veil into weak human mages when they dream? If they wanted out they'd easily get out.

 

Easiest explanation as to what Solas did was trap them in their eluvian worlds, Morigan said there are many and the eluvians lead there, many are corrupt or broken gateways so people, even powerful Elven gods, may not be able to get out.

But mages do meet some of them if they wander far enough. Not the elven gods specifically, but theres mention in one of the books about the avaar gods and beliefs. One of the gods has a pet bear 'as large as a mountain' and it goes on to mention that several mages have encountered the bear within the fade. But the fade seems to be vast and very few mages know hardly anything about it. I suspect this is part of the reason why sominari (the mages who can change the fade) are so highly valued.

 

 I suspect some are locked away within the fade and some others beneath the earth who are then twisted into archdemons. Maybe they are different types of god/sominari/powerful mage.

 

Lots to ponder!

[Heidirs]

I suspect some are locked away within the fade and some others beneath the earth who are then twisted into archdemons. Maybe they are different types of god/sominari/powerful mage.

 

I think... correct me if I'm wrong, all the archdemons we've seen so far have been the old tevinter gods, So the elven gods may have been spared that.

[Ranadiel Marius]

I think... correct me if I'm wrong, all the archdemons we've seen so far have been the old tevinter gods, So the elven gods may have been spared that.

Well there could be a currently unknown connection between the two groups. My personal theory is that the Old Gods are dragons that had a whisp of an Elvhen God soul bound to them to make them divine "familiars" similar to how Cory put a part of his soul in the red lyrium dragon.

[SerendipitousElf]

Many interesting theories here, very well thought through and a delightful reading. I learned a lot about the lore here since I just started playing this series a couple of months ago.

 

It has always been fascinating for me to try and figure out why a character in books or games has that particular name they are given by the author. I believe that the name shapes the character in many ways. Here are my thoughts regarding Solas, (not related to the lore).

 

Solas reads backwards as Salos, from greek σάλος (the tossing of the sea in a tempest). Also Solas - light in Gaelic.

"There will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among nations, in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves"

I believe that big changes are coming to the pixel world of Thedas, just sayin'...(runs for the tinfoil hat) .

 

However, I don't wish to see Solas turning into Anders 2.  Pity, it looks like this is where Solas' story is heading though - so cliche (Wynne&the Spirit of Faith, Anders&Justice/Vengeance, Solas&Mythal /Vengeance-again?)  In a way the spirits have shaped the fate of nations in DA as of late.

Could the writers overcome the trend and bring a really unique plot for Solas and the next installment of DA?

 

 

[Antergaton]

O.o Too late? We know Cory encountered concentrated blight in the Golden City from his diaries in the Temple of Dumat. I also think there is a Sola's/Cole conversation that hints that the mirrors are in the Golden/Black City (I'd have to double check on that conversation though). However Solas being responsible for the Veil is implied and I imagine will be confirmed whenever he gives his true back story.

 

Coryface really does love contradictions, how can he claim the Golden City was already black if he encountered concentrated Blight in the Golden City? The 2 do not correlate. He's also hardly a trustworthy source.

 

Honestly, don't care what is hinted at because most of it is stupid. Like I said, confirming the Veil wasn't created by The Maker or say the Maker did not seal the Old Gods away, basically confirms his non-existence and therefore won't ever be mentioned. 

 

Well, I say this but I think it was Gaider that said The Maker's existence will never be confirmed/denied... that might not be the case anymore.

 

Also: "My personal theory is that the Old Gods are dragons that had a whisp of an Elvhen God soul bound to them to make them divine "familiars" similar to how Cory put a part of his soul in the red lyrium dragon. "

Agreed, a good thought.

[Heidirs]

Could the writers overcome the trend and bring a really unique plot for Solas and the next installment of DA?

 

We have Sandal's prophecy... many people thought he was talking about the breach, but maybe the prophecy is talking about Solas succeeding in destroying the veil and having the fade mix with reality...

 

[Antergaton]

But mages do meet some of them if they wander far enough. Not the elven gods specifically, but theres mention in one of the books about the avaar gods and beliefs. One of the gods has a pet bear 'as large as a mountain' and it goes on to mention that several mages have encountered the bear within the fade. But the fade seems to be vast and very few mages know hardly anything about it. I suspect this is part of the reason why sominari (the mages who can change the fade) are so highly valued.

 

 I suspect some are locked away within the fade and some others beneath the earth who are then twisted into archdemons. Maybe they are different types of god/sominari/powerful mage.

 

Lots to ponder!

 

My main point was if these other Elven Gods are in the fade they may seek a way out, not just mages seek contact with them.

 

I can get behind the idea that The Old Gods, Elven, Avvar and other 'gods' are all of the same ilk. But not the idea that one of these lowly beings can create something as vast as the Veil.

[noxpanda]

My main point was if these other Elven Gods are in the fade they may seek a way out, not just mages seek contact with them.

 

I can get behind the idea that The Old Gods, Elven, Avvar and other 'gods' are all of the same ilk. But not the idea that one of these lowly beings can create something as vast as the Veil.

Eh im of the thinking that solas created the veil, then took a nap from exhaustion

 

It could be that the other elven gods are still sleeping. Or perhaps they have been plotting an escape route for the past thousand or so years.

[AxholeRose]

I was Solas' best friend in my first PT so I remember most of that stuff he said.  But it's Sandal's prophecy that has really got me interested.  Ever since it was revealed that the gods still exist and even walk amongst mortals at the end of DA:I, I have been wondering if Bioware has plans to utilize all or most of the old gods from their lore and throw them in to the next game.  Then we'll get to experience Thedas in its former glory, before the veil was created.  I definitely remember chatting with Solas about spirits and demons and how we can co-exist.  He seems very interested in the concept of spirits co-existing with mortals in the same world.

 

This is why I liked the ending.  Sure the last fight was underwhelming, but the ending itself showed me a glimpse of Bioware's grand vision of the Dragon Age series.  DA4, maybe the veil is torn down, maybe we'll even get to visit  the Black City.  3 years cannot come soon enough...

[Ranadiel Marius]

Coryface really does love contradictions, how can he claim the Golden City was already black if he encountered concentrated Blight in the Golden City? The 2 do not correlate. He's also hardly a trustworthy source.

Honestly, don't care what is hinted at because most of it is stupid. Like I said, confirming the Veil wasn't created by The Maker or say the Maker did not seal the Old Gods away, basically confirms his non-existence and therefore won't ever be mentioned.

Well, I say this but I think it was Gaider that said The Maker's existence will never be confirmed/denied... that might not be the case anymore.]

Eh, I don't think that Solas creating the Veil disproves the Maker. The Maker could have created the Veil through Solas.

As for Cory, his claim that the city was already Black when he was sleep talking doesn't discount the possibility that he found the Blight and took its power for his own allowing it to permeate his being. If there was a discripency there, I would be more inclined to say his waking thoughts were more accurate than his sleep mutterings.

[Heidirs]

It's Sandal's prophecy that has really got me interested.  Ever since it was revealed that the gods still exist and even walk amongst mortals at the end of DA:I, I have been wondering if Bioware has plans to utilize all or most of the old gods from their lore and throw them in to the next game.  Then we'll get to experience Thedas in its former glory, before the veil was created.  I definitely remember chatting with Solas about spirits and demons and how we can co-exist.  He seems very interested in the concept of spirits co-existing with mortals in the same world.

 

And Sandal's "the sky will rip open, the magic will come back, and everyone will be as they were" definitely sounds like what would happen from the veil being torn and everyone being connected to the fade. It's pretty interesting when you think that even the Dwarves believe they once had magic.

[SwobyJ]

I suspect that Solas very much wants to undo his "mistake", and free the elven mage-tyrants he imprisoned so long ago, regardless of the consequences to Modern Thedas.

I suspect the Mythal/Flemeth wants the same thing.

I believe, however, that their reasons differ.

I think Solas wants them to resume their ruler ship over Thedas, thus beginning the reversal of what he sees as thousands of years of elven decline.

I think Mythal wants them released so she can kill the one(s) who betrayed and murdered her, and she can't do that while they are locked up.

I think that, when Solas was stealing Flemeth/Mythal's power, he got a little spiritual hitchhiker who is just waiting for the right moment to take over her old friend's body to persue her own agenda.

 

Very possible, at least generally.

 

Mythal is more of a planner. The one with the longest plans.

Solas with the most drastic plans.

 

Merged, well, we have us a story. One that doesn't require Kate Mulgrew or David Gaider, I suppose, but still involving the Mythal entity.

 

Though I think Solas just wants the elves immortal again, and not fallen anymore. I don't think he wants the Creators to rule.

 

I think Solas wants his old world back, but not with its supposed imperfections (slavery, for example). A new cycle of magical existence.

[In Exile]

If they are really trapped in their domain and that domain is the fade then why the hell are they just not wandering around the fade? Any mage could have met them, how is it demons have no issue crossing the veil into weak human mages when they dream? If they wanted out they'd easily get out.

Easiest explanation as to what Solas did was trap them in their eluvian worlds, Morigan said there are many and the eluvians lead there, many are corrupt or broken gateways so people, even powerful Elven gods, may not be able to get out.

But a mage DID meet them. Do you not remember the story of Flemeth meeting her "demon"? An entity that we later learned was (what remained) of Mythal?

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

But a mage DID meet them. Do you not remember the story of Flemeth meeting her "demon"? An entity that we later learned was (what remained) of Mythal?

Mythal wasn't sealed in the first place, though. She was murdered. (And not by Solas, according to Abelas.) She's a different case than the ones he sealed away.

 

I do think the sealed gods have found their way into the Fade proper by now, though. There is that "Whispers in Red Lyrium" codex you can find in the Fade at Adamant that says "We have found the dream", etc.

[Fireheart]

Don't know if this has been brought up, but I was just wondering if there was anyone who, like me, when you first saw the ending with Solas and Flemeth... Solas says "But the people... they need me." The first couple times I saw this, I thought he was talking about the Elven people but now thinking back on it, he's talking to Mythal, who, while possibly having been an elf in the past, is also a goddess. So at first I thought Solas was talking with his former Elven friend Mythal about his desire to restore the Elves to their former glory, but now I think that he was talking about the Elven Gods. I was wondering what his plan to restore the Elves would be but now if he is actually talking about the Gods, then this  seems much more interesting, and ties in with his orb, supposedly it was supposed to open a way into the Fade right? Because he would need to go into the Fade to free the Elves. Man, I'm a little ashamed I didn't realize this at least the second time I saw it. Many more things make sense when you think about it as though he is speaking about the Gods.

 

Yeah, I know I'm slow, I just wanted to know if anyone else is as slow as me.