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#101
Draining Dragon

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Best PC RPG's according to RPG Codex
1) Planescape Torment
2) Fallout
3) Fallout 2
4) Baldur's Gate II
5) Arcanum
6) Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines
7) TES: Morrowind
8) Fallout: New Vegas
9) Gothic 2
10) Wizardry 8
 
My personal PC RPG top 10:
1) Fallout 2
2) Baldur's Gate II
3) Planescape Torment
4) DA: Origins
5) Mass Effect
6) KOTOR
7) Baldur's Gate
8) Fallout
9) Ultima VII: The Black Gate
10) Diablo (yes, the first one back in '96 damn it!)
 
Well I won't agree with RPG Codex what with the vacuum cleaning an all, but other than that they're okay in my book :)


No mention of Jade Empire on either list? What madness is this?
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#102
frankf43

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The problem is not the pig itself, is the ogre killing pigs. He tells you to go kill the ogre, not rescue his pigs.

So we go all that way and we don't even rescue the pigs? 



#103
Cyonan

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No mention of Jade Empire on either list? What madness is this?

 

RPGCodex tends to favour really complex character creation mechanics, of which Jade Empire's was rather simplistic.



#104
Miquel93

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So we go all that way and we don't even rescue the pigs? 

Well, you can kill the farmer for making you go up there, to let off some steam, if you need to.



#105
pawswithclaws

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So we go all that way and we don't even rescue the pigs? 

That does seem kind of rude. Poor pigs!



#106
KaiserShep

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Disregard swine. Acquire bacon.



#107
Draining Dragon

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RPGCodex tends to favour really complex character creation mechanics, of which Jade Empire's was rather simplistic.


If that's the case, then it's odd that Planescape: Torment is their #1 game.

#108
kingjezza

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of which Jade Empire's was rather simplistic.

 

Laidlaw's MO.



#109
DarkKnightHolmes

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Lol, I'm not DAI's biggest fan but even I can't stand RPG codex.



#110
Giantdeathrobot

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If that's the case, then it's odd that Planescape: Torment is their #1 game.

 

Well, PS:T has you build the character over the course of the game rather than at the start. It has has a kickass story and possibly the best writing in any RPG ever, so it's hard not to like really.

 

As for me, while I can respect that RPG Codex has rather clear tastes, the way they express it is not my cup of tea at all. ''I prefer isometric, old-style RPGs'' is one thing, but lots of discussion in the place revolves more around disliking anything that isn't an isometric, old-style RPG, bar Bloodlines.

 

That's without mentioning the generally more elitist and hostile tone, or the absolute cesspit that is the general comments section.

 

Anyway, the review has a few good points and wears its bias on its sleeve, so dismissing it as mindless hating is a bit silly. But I'm getting tired of people going ''this review meshes with my opinion, so of course it's the absolute truth''. Can we please grow a sense of perspective here folks?


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#111
Eternal Phoenix

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Many members of RPG Codex hate anything that isn't a traditional RPG. I've been on there, there's members there who hate Mass Effect, The Witcher 2, and New Vegas simply because they have action based combat. I agree that Inquisition has it flaws (specifically in terms of characters and all the crappy fetch side quests which is what all side quests in the game are sadly) but their comments in the review that "it's not enjoyable at all even for a casual game" is amusing to read. The combat is probably the best aspect of Inquisition (next to the crafting) and many of the abilities are quite fun to use. 

 

They gave no score but it reads like a 3/10 but should we expect any different from a site that has been biased towards Bioware games ever since Neverwinter Nights disappointed them by not being Baldur's Gate 3?

 

I agree with some parts of the review but it isn't all "truthful" at all. 7 is the honest score I would give Inquisition. They simply panned the game throughout as if it was the worst game ever but if you read their thread on Inquisition months before the game released, they simply spent the whole time leading up to the game bashing it. They went in with a biased negative mindset and got the game they wanted.

 

Although if you get pass their clear bias to action-RPG's and cesspit of a forum with members who are just as crazy as some guys here on the BSN, I do admire that they were one of the few sites (at least that I know of) that challenged Todd Howard about his sweet little lies on Skyrim and didn't buy into the hype of Oblivion which turned out crap. Their reviews on indie RPG's are something to read but I wouldn't bother with their reviews when it comes to any "AAA" RPG due to their bias and hatred of anything that isn't what they define as "hardcore" but that's what you're going to get from a forum that is a gathering place for people who mostly only prefer those type of games. 

 

Inquisition reminds me of Oblivion in terms of its empty world but it's enjoyable by having a better main quest and gameplay that makes it more than playable. The Codex went in comparing Inquisition to older classic RPG's as they do for every game. I went in comparing it to action games and in some ways it reminded me of a Diablo-esque game with the character building you do with abilities and was ultimately fun in the end, not a true RPG successor to Origins but fun, it was disappointing as an RPG but not as an overall game since I did enjoy it enough to play for over 40 odd hours.



#112
Raoni Luna

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Yeah and after looking at the Beta from Gamescom in stead of the boring fetch quest that you get with DA:I you have awesome quests where you go and rescue a pig from an Ogre.

You can build your character they could as well ask me to guide a blind lady to her home and it would still be a perfect game.
Inquisition is wrong because everything is wrong, there is no reddeming quality. You can have boring quests, or boring story, or boring whatever, if at least one thing is good enough, it is ok. Inquisition is just a bad case of everything wrong, nothing right.



#113
Lewie

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After DA2 I was honestly worried about Inquisition. Honestly, I am glad with what we were given. Games now are aesthetically incredible at times but Bioware always wins with me on stories. New engine, re-work, mechanics, lots of change. If Bioware did go bankrupt we wouldn't even have this game. I think they deserve a break.

 

In all the years I have gamed I have never, ever used a review online to decide for me what a game is like. I am capable of finding out for myself. At least that way if someone asks me in person I can give them an honest answer, with both sides included. Reviewers online don't have much credibility that is a fact and frankly their own fault. I haven't even read a great review of Inquisition, I don't need to read any of them, that is the point.

 

If you like the game, that's fine. If you don't, that's fine too. Be concise and clear and post in the right place and don't go on and on and on about it for weeks on end. Jeez.

 

Also please just stop hiding behind the internet or review sites or frigging numbers.

 

It makes people look ridiculous when they say I hate this game, I will save my money because loooook numbers. I can't believe I am alliterating words my god I am so upset.

 

These forums. 


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#114
Eternal Phoenix

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Personally, after DA2, I stopped expecting any type of traditional role playing experiences from Bioware. Mass Effect 3 was a further killer when it dumbed down dialogue and customization and felt more like an action game with lite RPG elements but ultimately it was fun (ending aside) just like Inquisition. I didn't go in expecting Inquisition to be the new king of RPG's so I wasn't disappointed as some others were with the game.

 

Some people just forget games are meant to be enjoyed and should stop getting too hyped up about games or going in with a negative mindset to get a clearer picture of a game when they eventually get around to playing it and if you hate the game, move on and find a better game to play. I finished Inquisition a while back and am already playing another game. Some of these haters seem obsessed with trying to "get back" at Bioware for their disappointment instead of moving on.

 

Whether you hate or love the game, it was a success in terms of sells, no amount of forum posts or single user reviews will change that or the numerous "GOTY" awards it received. Same thing happened with Skyrim and it didn't deserve any GOTY awards either. Personally Dark Souls 2 was my GOTY of last year.



#115
Lewie

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Personally, after DA2, I stopped expecting any type of traditional role playing experiences from Bioware. Mass Effect 3 was a further killer when it dumbed down dialogue and customization and felt more like an action game with lite RPG elements but ultimately it was fun (ending aside) just like Inquisition. I didn't go in expecting Inquisition to be the new king of RPG's so I wasn't disappointed as some others were with the game.

 

Some people just forget games are meant to be enjoyed and should stop getting too hyped up about games or going in with a negative mindset to get a clearer picture of a game when they eventually get around to playing it and if you hate the game, move on and find a better game to play. I finished Inquisition a while back and am already playing another game. Some of these haters seem obsessed with trying to "get back" at Bioware for their disappointment instead of moving on.

 

Whether you hate or love the game, it was a success in terms of sells, no amount of forum posts or single user reviews will change that or the numerous "GOTY" awards it received. Same thing happened with Skyrim and it didn't deserve any GOTY awards either. Personally Dark Souls 2 was my GOTY of last year.

Well I only just bought Me3 recently when it was on sale. A perfect example of listening to hype. This was not hype online it was people in real life so I guess I am in for disappointment.



#116
Nefla

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Well, if you're still on the fence, have a look at this.

On the fence about some reviewers giving a more positive review than they would have if they weren't paid/working for the company/have their reporter forced into a game as a character, or on the fence about every positive review or opinion being a lie (as this thread implies)? Because while I believe some professional reviewers are compromised, I don't believe that all of them are, and I don't believe that every positive review or opinion is a lie. These forums alone should tell you how many people genuinely like the game (hell, I've argued with many of them about aspects that I found poorly done).


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#117
In Exile

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The review never compared DA:I to the games listed in the preface (Blackguards, Original Sin, Dragonfall), and after that they were not mentioned so it has no bearing on the review's substance. I would also be interested in hearing how the actual comparisons to "essentially everything" in the review are wrong, considering most of those comparisons are just observations of traits that the DA games share with each other. At this point I wonder if you read the review or just skimmed over it and decided to tell the world what you thought.


I didn't say that the review compared DAI to the games at the outset. I said it was wrong regarding their quality. In my view, this was not a year to be 'spoiled' so far, at least based on that selection.

As to the review itself, the majority of comparisons are not to previous DA games. Not on substance. There are a number of references to "Bioware's tendency" (or statement of a similar effect) that says very little beyond their subjective evaluation of Bioware tropes (which to give them some credit they do acknowledge some people like; they just say it in an especially condescending way). The comparison, instead, is either to a perceived RPG, theories of RPGs that they have, or to the various casuak games it references.

Let's take one passage as an example, which says:

Roleplaying is limited to defining your main character's personality archetype and there's very little in terms of systemic emergence the way that Dr. Spector or Sir Wolfsbane envision.



If you follow this chain down through the bowels of the internet all you wind up with is a completely idiosyncratic theory of what RP is that just amounts to a self-important way of saying "I think RPGs are X". It is done way a covert comparison to other RPGs and tautologically starts from the conclusion it sets out to prove (the theory of what makes an RPG an RPG that is). It's purportedly couched in an objective description of the feature of the game but is really just a subjective expression of taste that has little to do with critiquing that feature in a way that goes beyond "I don't enjoy it".

As to comparisons to games, well, I'll let the title to the section on exploration speak for itself: "EXPLORATION - THE SEQUEL TO KINGDOMS OF AMALUR THAT NEVER HAPPENED​".

Funny enough I actually don't disagree with that general claim. But in any event, much of the section focuses on Skyrim and Diablo among other games (weird given the title).

The actual section itself is where the review descends into (to put it politely) a long discussion on subjective taste or (to put it less politely) self-congratulatory chest thumping. Take for example:

Exploring the game world itself is not very engaging. The wilderness areas are fairly large and open-ended, and also quite good looking. But BioWare seems to think it would be nonsense to just drink in the visage. With so many fetch quests to accomplish, you simply don't have the time to become lost in an immersive world! Which is why the mighty Quest Arrow is here to guide your every step, along with the "Search" (default 'V') key that highlights everything of note in an area. You won't have to find anything in this game: collectables, quest opportunities, objectives, locked doors, almost everything is marked on the world map. While this isn't entirely unlike the previous Dragon Age games, at least their more inane quests weren't spread throughout miles of terrain, far out of the way from the main plot.


The authors don't like the use of quest arrows or the filler quests. Quite fair. But this isn't some meaningful criticism of the design. It's not even really a description of the game. It's just chest thumping about what feature is "proper".

The section goes on to compare DAI with say Diablo.

The true exception is the combat. Aside from the belligerent tone, I think the review is quite right in the technical flaws it points out. But that's marred by a comical comparison to the purported complexity of BG2's spell combat, which suffered from the design issues at the concept level but implemented in a more traditional isometric RPG with D&D rules.

And then we get to the conclusion, which includes:

Delterius: What more can be said? Combat is mindless, exploration is tedious and what could otherwise be an enjoyable story is gated behind them. And this was RPG of the Year on countless gaming sites! Its development dances well to the status quo of the industry. It has sufficiently high production values to allow the professional blogging scene to praise it to the highest of heavens without losing face. Never mind that it brings absolutely nothing new to the RPG genre. Years from now millions of people who don't know any better will cite its name as proof that Games Are Art. But the truth is that Inquisition is nothing more than an exercise in treating players with a great deal of condescension. I can sympathize with the notion of simplifying a series in order to attract a wider audience but by God, I can't in good faith recommend Dragon Age: Inquisition even as a casual experience. It just isn't fun.


This isn't some deep or meaningful review. It's certainly more honest than the review proper. And it's last sentence is really all that should have been said, with an IMO in front.
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#118
aaarcher86

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I really enjoy vacuum cleaning.

This analogy works for me.
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#119
Thatkat09

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I don't usually take much notice of Metacrtic scores for the PC, but in this case it shows that the actual users that hate the game outnumber those that love it. And before you say that they are protest votes, then I can tell you that there are more daft 10/10's than there are daft 0/10's.

This reflects on many, many discussion forums, where the game seems to be more hated than loved.

Huge success, I think not. It is actually on the road to being quite the opposite.

You know, the metacritic argument might have worked back in 2006 when people took the user score section as more than just a place to post their blind rage or rabid fanboyism but here in 2015, it mean squat. A huge number of major releases get hit with this crap. It is not at all a rare occurrence anymore for critically well received games to have user scores ranging from the 3 range to the 6 range. Metacritic user reviews have lost any and all credibility because of that.

Also, all the major gaming forums(gamefaqs, gametrailers, Ign, GameSpot, reddit) have been very positive about DA:I. I'm not sure where you see hate outside of BSN and Rpgcodex(apparently).
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#120
KaiserShep

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I really enjoy vacuum cleaning.
This analogy works for me.


Especially if it's one of those badass industrial shop vacs. They can suck a pile of quarters like dust bunnies.
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#121
Shryke

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There is a difference between the games most people on this forum like and the games that are respected on the Codex. It's very simple.

 

The Codex likes games where you have to engage your brain. Where your own gray matter as a player is the Awesome Button. Games like DA:I can almost be played on autopilot. There is no strategy in terms of mapping out your character's development, and there is no need for tactics in combat. 

 

Games like DA:I are fine for what they are — mindless hack and slash romance simulators — but they will never be classic RPGs because they don't require you to use your brain.


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#122
London

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I think the review is on point. Only my love of Leliana and the need to see what happens pushed me to the end but I can't get into a replay no matter how much I try.

#123
In Exile

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There is a difference between the games most people on this forum like and the games that are respected on the Codex. It's very simple.

 

The Codex likes games where you have to engage your brain. Where your own gray matter as a player is the Awesome Button. Games like DA:I can almost be played on autopilot. There is no strategy in terms of mapping out your character's development, and there is no need for tactics in combat. 

 

Games like DA:I are fine for what they are — mindless hack and slash romance simulators — but they will never be classic RPGs because they don't require you to use your brain.

 

You're right. I see the light now. I only like DA:I because I'm an unwashed pleb incapable of critical thought. I'm going to burn my copy of A Theory of Justice and go roll around in the mud; that's more appropriate for my tiny, ape-like brain. 


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#124
Eelectrica

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You're right. I see the light now. I only like DA:I because I'm an unwashed pleb incapable of critical thought. I'm going to burn my copy of A Theory of Justice and go roll around in the mud; that's more appropriate for my tiny, ape-like brain. 

That's not what was said.

Where exactly in the game is much thought required?

It's not the astrarium puzzles.

It's not the sentence puzzles in Hissing wastes or the lever puzzle in the Plains.

It's not the combat, so where exactly is the point in the game where the player has to take a step back and actually think for a minute or two on how to proceed?

 

Mindless fun action games aren't necessarily a bad thing either.

doesn't get more mindless than a game like Borderlands, but it's still fun.


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#125
In Exile

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That's not what was said.

Where exactly in the game is much thought required?

It's not the astrarium puzzles.

It's not the sentence puzzles in Hissing wastes or the lever puzzle in the Plains.

It's not the combat, so where exactly is the point in the game where the player has to take a step back and actually think for a minute or two on how to proceed?

 

My tiny brain struggles a lot with "words" and "reading", so clearly that post shot past my head like an arrow. See, I read things like: "The Codex likes games where you have to engage your brain. Where your own gray matter as a player " as a dig at the intelligence of players who enjoy DA:I and a nice reacharound for the Codex. Silly me. I'll try not to read between the lines so much in the future. 


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