1268 réponses à ce sujet

[Elfyoth]

He is a good written char, but really? I don't like him, he knew what he was doing and who he was allying and thought it was okay.

[Bugsie]

Love that sketch of him.  Clean simple lines yet captures him well.

 

He is a good written char, but really? I don't like him, he knew what he was doing and who he was allying and thought it was okay.

Yep he sure did.  What an ahole.

[congokong]

There's always bleeding hearts who sympathize with every DA villain barring maybe Corypheus and the archdemon.

[Catwall]

There definitely are folks out there who more than sympathize with Coryphyputz. Not my thing, but whatever.

[Tigrae]

I appreciated Samson's character, namely his love for his men, but was somewhat disappointed with the design of his armour.

After so much hype, it turned out to use the one of the ugliest designs in DA2.

 

Yeah it was basically just Kirkwall guard armor with some lyrium on it. Maybe it was Kirkwall guard armor he took with him when he fled the city with the remaining templars and tranquil?

[SmilesJA]

Yeah it was basically just Kirkwall guard armor with some lyrium on it. Maybe it was Kirkwall guard armor he took with him when he fled the city with the remaining templars and tranquil?

 

Well they had to find something that symbolizes the Red Templars. I admit it's uninspired though.

[SmilesJA]

There definitely are folks out there who more than sympathize with Coryphyputz. Not my thing, but whatever.

 

Hey! I found the Archdemon quite tragic! It almost drove me to tears!

[Tigrae]

Hey! I found the Archdemon quite tragic! It almost drove me to tears!

 

Poor dragon, just snoozing away when the Blight catches her and now she's an Archdemon and she's got all these gross Darkspawn following her everywhere? She just wanted to take a nap.

[SmilesJA]

She is actually a "he" but now you see how I felt about him!

[TheLastArchivist]

There's always bleeding hearts who sympathize with every DA villain barring maybe Corypheus and the archdemon.

 

I agree. It's always the same old diatribe that the villain is just another poor, lonely soul who had no love, no affection, no one in life and suffered a great injustice.

He then becomes callous and calculating, using whatever resources and people necessary to achieve his machiavellic goals.

 

This biased view that tries to redeem every single villain by portraying him as a poor, misunderstood soul stems from modern movies and animations. Notice how some of every child's favourite villains from Disney movies and cartoons fit into this category.

 

 

 

However, Samson is more a tragic figure than a villain.

 

He is your average man, whose main concern in life is his continuous survival and well-being. He joins Corypheus for this very reason, since the Magister had succeeded in infiltrating the Templar Order with the help of the Envy Demon. All those who refused his leadership would be executed.

 

Samson only had one choice left: bow to him and swear allegiance or be destroyed with the remaining templars.

 

He chose survival, the very choice of anyone in his situation. And yet, everyone condemns him for it, even though they'd choose the same in his shoes.

 

 

Later, he shows regret for what he did. He's fully aware of his heinous crimes. Betrayal, deceit, mass homicide...the list goes on and on.

And I believe he's so disgusted by what he had to do to survive that he doesn't even ask for mercy when the Inquisitor offers it to him. 

He states quite clearly he knew what Corypehus was doing. And admittedly fed his colleagues false hope.

 

(Before we judge him for lying to his companions, shouldn't we remember he had been lying to himself for all these years ever since he got cast out of the Order and begun to live like a homeless in Kirkwall? Didn't he just keep hoping something would turn up and things would somehow get better? That's why he helped uncover Thrask's covert plan in DA2, Act 3)

 

All in all, Samson is more a tragic figure than a villain. He had no malign agenda, he didn't desire power, nor did he want to maim and kill anyone. He became an antagonist because he had no other choice.

 

Better yet, he DID have a choice: to die with honour. But honestly, who the hell would choose this over living? 

 

Just count how many people do prefer to commit suicide over having to live in less dignified conditions when the going gets rough for them.

[TheLastArchivist]

 Allow me to enjoy this opportunity to express my love for this thread. 

 

I just had this burning feeling in my chest and needed to voice it.

 

 

 

 

Thank you. Now back to our original schedule. 

[congokong]

However, Samson is more a tragic figure than a villain.

 

He is your average man, whose main concern in life is his continuous survival and well-being. He joins Corypheus for this very reason, since the Magister had succeeded in infiltrating the Templar Order with the help of the Envy Demon. All those who refused his leadership would be executed.

 

Samson only had one choice left: bow to him and swear allegiance or be destroyed with the remaining templars.

 

He chose survival, the very choice of anyone in his situation. And yet, everyone condemns him for it, even though they'd choose the same in his shoes.

 

 

Later, he shows regret for what he did. He's fully aware of his heinous crimes. Betrayal, deceit, mass homicide...the list goes on and on.

And I believe he's so disgusted by what he had to do to survive that he doesn't even ask for mercy when the Inquisitor offers it to him. 

He states quite clearly he knew what Corypehus was doing. And admittedly fed his colleagues false hope.

 

(Before we judge him for lying to his companions, shouldn't we remember he had been lying to himself for all these years ever since he got cast out of the Order and begun to live like a homeless in Kirkwall? Didn't he just keep hoping something would turn up and things would somehow get better? That's why he helped uncover Thrask's covert plan in DA2, Act 3)

 

All in all, Samson is more a tragic figure than a villain. He had no malign agenda, he didn't desire power, nor did he want to maim and kill anyone. He became an antagonist because he had no other choice.

 

Better yet, he DID have a choice: to die with honour. But honestly, who the hell would choose this over living? 

 

Just count how many people do prefer to commit suicide over having to live in less dignified conditions when the going gets rough for them.

So basically no price is too high for survival? A hundred lives, a thousand, what does it matter? Who wants to die, right? So Samson allied with the monster responsible for destroying the templar order to give himself more time to live his sorrowful existence before Corypheus succeeds and destroys the world; before or after killing Samson for no longer being useful is anyone's guess. You reject the notion that some people would rather die on their feet than live on their knees?

 

While you agree with me initially, you fall into the same sympathy trap the bleeding hearts do afterward by defending Samson for being put into a shitty situation. That same argument can be used to defend the other villains of DA that I referred to such as Loghain. So you really don't agree with me.

[TheLastArchivist]

So basically no price is too high for survival? A hundred lives, a thousand, what does it matter? Who wants to die, right? So Samson allied with the monster responsible for destroying the templar order to give himself more time to live his sorrowful existence before Corypheus succeeds and destroys the world; before or after killing Samson for no longer being useful is anyone's guess.

 

You reject the notion that some people would rather die on their feet than live on their knees.

 

Well, having an idealistic view of life is all very nice and well, but until you are held at gunpoint, have a knife held near your carotid, starve to death because you tried your best and yet couldn't find a job to pay the bills, is thrown out of every establishment for looking and smelling like a filthy beggar or have your teeth and nails pulled by force without anesthesics and other merry actions that corner you and obliterate every rational thought in your mind, you don't really understand why some people don't fight back, don't really take charge of their lives, just go on living, one day at a time.

 

This is why most people have an early mid-life crisis at 25 or 30 yrs. They realize their great moment, the "arc" of their lives hasn't yet arrived. Time is running short and nothing changes. They begin to feel it may never do.

That's when they finally have their first epiphany and give up a bit of their idealistic approach to life. Some of their youthful dreams die and they begin a slow process of shifting to a different set of moral values, one more attuned to the reality they are living now.

 

That's also when children and teenagers start finding them boring people, stupid and dull. They just haven't been there yet, But one day, they will. Everyone does.

[Bugsie]

So basically no price is too high for survival? A hundred lives, a thousand, what does it matter? Who wants to die, right? So Samson allied with the monster responsible for destroying the templar order to give himself more time to live his sorrowful existence before Corypheus succeeds and destroys the world; before or after killing Samson for no longer being useful is anyone's guess. You reject the notion that some people would rather die on their feet than live on their knees?

 

While you agree with me initially, you fall into the same sympathy trap the bleeding hearts do afterward by defending Samson for being put into a shitty situation. That same argument can be used to defend the other villains of DA that I referred to such as Loghain. So you really don't agree with me.

Moral agency.

 

Go look it up.  You might actually learn something about why we find him compelling other than just insulting people for apparently being 'bleeding hearts'.

[congokong]

Well, having an idealistic view of life is all very nice and well, but until you are held at gunpoint, have a knife held near your carotid, starve to death because you tried your best and yet couldn't find a job to pay the bills, is thrown out of every establishment for looking and smelling like a filthy beggar or have your teeth and nails pulled by force without anesthesics and other merry actions that corner you and obliterate every rational thought in your mind, you don't really understand why some people don't fight back, don't really take charge of their lives, just go on living, one day at a time.

 

This is why most people have an early mid-life crisis at 25 or 30 yrs. They realize their great moment, the "arc" of their lives hasn't yet arrived. Time is running short and nothing changes. They begin to feel it may never do.

That's when they finally have their first epiphany and give up a bit of their idealistic approach to life. Some of their youthful dreams die and they begin a slow process of shifting to a different set of moral values, one more attuned to the reality they are living now.

 

That's also when children and teenagers start finding them boring people, stupid and dull. They just haven't been there yet, But one day, they will. Everyone does.

Your view that everyone succumbs to survival at any cost is very cynical without any backing historically-speaking.

[congokong]

Moral agency.

 

Go look it up.  You might actually learn something about why we find him compelling other than just insulting people for apparently being 'bleeding hearts'.

You think I wasn't aware of the concept of "right and wrong?"

 

Samson isn't very compelling. He's in the same boat as countless others who are put into the tough "idealism vs. practicality" situation and chose the latter. Sure, sympathize with him if you want. Start doing that though and there are very few people who've done terrible things who don't deserve sympathy. Loghain, Meredith, Alexius, Samson, Calpernia, etc. All are put into tough situations. Go to the real world. Drug dealers, murderers, thieves, etc. Many are in tough situations. You'll find very few who have no reason other than selfish desire. They're all examples of the lure, and moral corruption, of practicality. The "right" path is clear though, such as what the templar did who refused Imshael's offer to remove the red lyrium if he served; even though that right choice killed him.

[The Baconer]

I agree. It's always the same old diatribe that the villain is just another poor, lonely soul who had no love, no affection, no one in life and suffered a great injustice.

He then becomes callous and calculating, using whatever resources and people necessary to achieve his machiavellic goals.

 

This biased view that tries to redeem every single villain by portraying him as a poor, misunderstood soul stems from modern movies and animations. Notice how some of every child's favourite villains from Disney movies and cartoons fit into this category.

 

 

 

However, Samson is more a tragic figure than a villain.

 

Oh lord, just stop.

 

 

He chose survival, the very choice of anyone in his situation. And yet, everyone condemns him for it, even though they'd choose the same in his shoes.

 

Well, maybe you would. I'd rather not melt my skin off with Red Lyrium.

 

 

Better yet, he DID have a choice: to die with honour. But honestly, who the hell would choose this over living?

 

It would have been more dignified, and comfortable, than what's coming to him now.

[TheLastArchivist]

Your view that everyone succumbs to survival at any cost is very cynical without any backing historically-speaking.

 

I don't find it advisable to judge people's morals over a few words exchanged on the internet. 

 

You only see one side of the multifaceted prism that is their personality. That can lead to very narrow, rigid perceptions.

[TheLastArchivist]

HO HO I was wondering when the trolls would begin to swarm on the thread! 

 

TROLL ALERT 

 

TROLL ALERT

 

Activate Emergency protocols

 

[MisterJB]

Survival was not the reason Samson joined Corypheus.

The game makes a point all that Red Lyrium is killing him and he has, maybe, six months to live.

[The Baconer]

Survival was not the reason Samson joined Corypheus.

The game makes a point all that Red Lyrium is killing him and he has, maybe, six months to live.

 

I always put him in a hole. Nothing but the voices in his head, memories of what he's done and the sweet, blinding pain of the Lyrium to keep him company in those final hours.

 

... or at least, that's what it should be. F***ing Skyhold jail. Where's my solitary confinement?

[congokong]

I don't find it advisable to judge people's morals over a few words exchanged on the internet. 

 

You only see one side of the multifaceted prism that is their personality. That can lead to very narrow, rigid perceptions.

Are you referring to yourself being judged? You're arguing that everyone eventually succumbs to practicality. I'm responding to that claim. You say I shouldn't? You think my view of not categorizing all people as inevitably willing to survive at any cost as narrow and rigid?

[Tigrae]

She is actually a "he" but now you see how I felt about him!

 

Oh derp - I thought Archdemons were created from High Dragons (which are female).

[congokong]

Survival was not the reason Samson joined Corypheus.

The game makes a point all that Red Lyrium is killing him and he has, maybe, six months to live.

Corypheus would likely dispose of him before the lyrium took its toll anyway. Samson deep down probably knew that but anything to live another moment I guess.

[Bugsie]

You think I wasn't aware of the concept of "right and wrong?"

 

Samson isn't very compelling. He's in the same boat as countless others who are put into the tough "idealism vs. practicality" situation and chose the latter. Sure, sympathize with him if you want. Start doing that though and there are very few people who've done terrible things who don't deserve sympathy. Loghain, Meredith, Alexius, Samson, Calpernia, etc. All are put into tough situations. Go to the real world. Drug dealers, murderers, thieves, etc. Many are in tough situations. You'll find very few who have no reason other than selfish desire. They're all examples of the lure, and moral corruption, of practicality. The "right" path is clear though, such as what the templar did who refused Imshael's offer to remove the red lyrium if he served; even though that right choice killed him.

No, it's clear that you do. You're just being a bit of a dick about it.

 

YMMV. I disagree.  Although I think there isn't enough content for most to make most of the villians them truly compelling, I like what I see in Samson, others don't *shrug* .   I only recently revisited Loghain's character after reading the Stolen Throne.  There really wasn't anything in Origins that made me feel at all compelled to spare him or make him a warden.  Real world comparisons fall flat because how people choose to view characters in a fictional setting is often  very different to views on such a character in the real world.

I always put him in a hole. Nothing but the voices in his head, memories of what he's done and the sweet, blinding pain of the Lyrium to keep him company in those final hours.

 

... or at least, that's what it should be. F***ing Skyhold jail. Where's my solitary confinement?

Poetic justice.

 

I don't seem to get anyone but Alexius to show up in the dungeons.