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[NaclynE]

“Templars have always been used. How many were left to rot, like I was, after the Chantry burned away their minds?”

 

I couldn't find any thread that's dedicated to everyone's favorite lyrium addicted Templar Samson! (Or was it Caroll? May he rest in peace.) Anyway I found it pretty sad to see Samson go on the deep end. In DA2 he was reduced to begging on the streets and smuggling apostates for coin, just so he can get his fix next on lyrium. No doubt representing the control the Chantry exerts on its Templars. Cullen's backstory on him showed Samson to be a decent man once, following the Templar ideal. What really surprised me about Samson, was his relationship with the tranquil mage: Maddox. The reason why Samson was kicked out of the order was because he was caught smuggling Maddox's letters to his lover. You would've thought that Samson would resent him, but instead Samson managed to rescue Maddox from Kirkwall and protected him! Maddox was even loyal enough that he committed suicide rather than be captured by the Inquisitor and this affected Samson if finds out about the news.

 

Overall I rather find Samson interesting enough to warrant his own thread. What do you guys think of him?

 

 

Link to his profile: http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Samson

 

Well I always thought he was a cool character after I refound about him by playing DA 2 again. He helps Feyrinal out big time dealing with his newly found powers and seemed quite helpful. However i still find him kind of a bit of a broken character that should be in the DRAGON'S KEEP. I remember on one playthrough i kept him as a drunk while in two recent playthroughs i had him wanting to fight on again but wasn't reinstated as a templar while the other playthrough I had Samson reinstated as a templar. Frankly seeing him as a templar I find a good thing but then it looks like "omg" in DAI where it's like why did he swing over to the dark side when he got his old job back? If he's a drunk or a rouge sure I would understand because if he's a drunk of course he'll become a red templar. If he's a rouge he's probably mad at Hawke for not getting him his old job back. But if he's a templar becoming a red templar why would he sell out?

[Bugsie]

I think as you rightly say he's somewhat broken, whether or not you reinstate him as a Templar in DA2 or not. I think the breaking point is Maddox in addition to his Lyrium addiction. Maddox being the mage he helped with his love letters and who was made tranquil because of It. Samson saves Maddox from the circle after the events at the end of DA2 - and takes him with him before aligning himself with Corypheus. What happens to Samson between DA2 and Inquisition to do such a thing is really not clear. In judgement, he gives you nothing but obscure 'you wouldn't understand' reasons for doing it. I'm hoping we get some more development, akin to what we got with Loghain and the Stolen a Throne. It's up to the writers what they do with the arc whether in game or extended universe content.

I really, really hope they give us something. Cos I'm kinda hooked on his character now.

*sets mast, sails into the sunset*

[Jo Berry]

Not a great photo, but current sculpt status:

 

 

Making those small lyrium shards on his gauntlets is killing me (appropriately enough... ) But once I've fixed the shoulders and worked on the face some more, I think I'm nearly there.

[ModernAcademic]

Well I always thought he was a cool character after I refound about him by playing DA 2 again. He helps Feyrinal out big time dealing with his newly found powers and seemed quite helpful. However i still find him kind of a bit of a broken character that should be in the DRAGON'S KEEP. I remember on one playthrough i kept him as a drunk while in two recent playthroughs i had him wanting to fight on again but wasn't reinstated as a templar while the other playthrough I had Samson reinstated as a templar. Frankly seeing him as a templar I find a good thing but then it looks like "omg" in DAI where it's like why did he swing over to the dark side when he got his old job back? If he's a drunk or a rouge sure I would understand because if he's a drunk of course he'll become a red templar. If he's a rouge he's probably mad at Hawke for not getting him his old job back. But if he's a templar becoming a red templar why would he sell out?

 

Bioware usually has some canon version of the story, which they use as reference to build the next installment.

 

Judging by Samson's depiction in DA:I, they chose the DA2 ending where the character is not reinstated in the Templar Order.

You can notice this by his continuing bitterness towards the Chantry. It's grown stronger than ever:

 

Being force fed lyrium by the Chantry was good for something.

 

-Samson in the Well of Sorrows

 

 

He sees the Chantry as the one responsible for utterly destroying his life. He considers himself a "good soldier", one that was thrown away from the Order. And indeed, even the Inquisitor can ask Cullen if it was not too much to expel Samson from the Order - which is the equivalent of throwing a drug addict to the streets with no money, no income, no home, no family and no way to cope with his addiction - merely for sending letters from Maddox and his girlfriend back and forth, to which he replies that "Meredith could crack the whip when she wanted to". 

 

The Wardens don't seem the type to throw away good soldiers.

 

-Samson in prison talking to Ser Ruth

 

 

So, if you reinstate him in the Order by the end of DA 2, it should be the kind of action that results in him NOT joining Corypheus. Actually, I'm pretty certain he would've tried to defend Ser Barris and the remaining good templars. And once he failed to do so, Samson could've run to Haven alongside Cole as one of the few survivors to warn the Inquisitor of the Magister's arrival.

 

And no doubt, he and Cullen would've gotten along just fine. The Commander would even welcome him to the Inquisition as the templar who fought alongside Hawke and himself against Meredith. His merit would've been righteously recognised.

 

But sadly, that's not what happens. Bioware opted for one outcome alone, thus creating this entire confusion in our heads. 

[ModernAcademic]

Not a great photo, but current sculpt status:

 

 

Making those small lyrium shards on his gauntlets is killing me (appropriately enough... ) But once I've fixed the shoulders and worked on the face some more, I think I'm nearly there.

 

*making indistinguishable noises with throat*

 

 

What's even more exciting is that our lost templar is being sculpted by a Bioware employee.  

It's official; our sourpuss deserves a place of honor in the DA beloved characters' pantheon (does that even exist?). 

[Rannah]

Not a great photo, but current sculpt status:

 

 

Making those small lyrium shards on his gauntlets is killing me (appropriately enough... ) But once I've fixed the shoulders and worked on the face some more, I think I'm nearly there.

 

Love you so much for this, Jo!

 

*can't wait to see the finished piece of art*

[ModernAcademic]

About the character's name:

 

I've always wondered if it had any correlation to the myth of Samson and Delilah.

Samson's strength lay in his hair. Once cut, he becomes vulnerable. A broken man, easy prey to his enemies.

 

When Samson loses his supply of lyrium (and his position as templar), doesn't he lose something precious as well?

 

More than the means to keep his addiction, he loses his honour, his prestige. Stripped of his dignity, he becomes less of a man and merely a shadow of what he was; a beggar left to roam the streets; a pariah, forgotten by society. 

He stops being a man right there and his will to fight all but vanishes. The will to fight against adversity, to struggle for a better life.

 

 

I ain't got that in me anymore. I just got the thirst and the dust.

 

-Samson in DA2

[ModernAcademic]

What happens if you google Samson Dragon Age:

 

 

 

Sweet Maker...

Some people never heard of DA 2, eh?

[Bugsie]

About the character's name:

 

I've always wondered if it had any correlation to the myth of Samson and Delilah.

Samson's strength lay in his hair. Once cut, he becomes vulnerable. A broken man, easy prey to his enemies.

 

When Samson loses his supply of lyrium (and his position as templar), doesn't he lose something precious as well?

 

More than the means to keep his addiction, he loses his honour, his prestige. Stripped of his dignity, he becomes less of a man and merely a shadow of what he was; a beggar left to roam the streets; a pariah, forgotten by society. 

He stops being a man right there and his will to fight all but vanishes. The will to fight against adversity, to struggle for a better life.

 

 

I ain't got that in me anymore. I just got the thirst and the dust.

 

-Samson in DA2

I actually had this thought too.  That in this case, lyrium is analogous to biblical Samson's hair.

 

In regard to him not having gone down the path with Corypheus if he rejoined the order.  I'm not convinced that this is the case.  Cullen talks of Samson being a good man, of being a good Templar and soldier.  Now if the order throws him on the rubbish heap and gives no links to lyrium that can sustain him he's forced to look for other sources and thereby come into contact with less than honorable people.  THis exposes him to a level of corruption I think would be hard to shake even if he rejoined the order.  So in summary, he's not only bitter at the order for having treated him so poorly, his personal integrity (ie the person he thinks he is) is no longer quite the same having had such mixed company as thieves, smugglers and all manner of other criminals.  Also we still don't know how Samson met with Corypheus, all we know is that he had Maddox with him and he convinced possibly a large number of rogue Templars (currently fighting with the mages) to join his cause.

 

I don't know if this aspect of what happens with the Templars plays out any better if you side with the Templars (just doing this pt at the moment) but I get the distinct impression you really don't get much more info on that.

[Xilizhra]

One of the things I've been wondering is what to do with his sword, Certainty. Which also seems to be Meredith's sword. I could play a warrior to wield it, but since I tend to play mages and the only two-handed wielder in my party is Iron Bull, whom I never use, I wonder if something else should be done with it.

[SmilesJA]

About the character's name:

 

I've always wondered if it had any correlation to the myth of Samson and Delilah.

Samson's strength lay in his hair. Once cut, he becomes vulnerable. A broken man, easy prey to his enemies.

 

When Samson loses his supply of lyrium (and his position as templar), doesn't he lose something precious as well?

 

More than the means to keep his addiction, he loses his honour, his prestige. Stripped of his dignity, he becomes less of a man and merely a shadow of what he was; a beggar left to roam the streets; a pariah, forgotten by society. 

He stops being a man right there and his will to fight all but vanishes. The will to fight against adversity, to struggle for a better life.

 

 

I ain't got that in me anymore. I just got the thirst and the dust.

 

-Samson in DA2

 

I wonder if Samson eventually regains his strength and go Kamikaze on the Inquistion soldiers like Samson in the Bible did?

[ModernAcademic]

I just learned how to get Samson imprisoned and went to talk to him in his cell. And...

 

The conversation is making me feel very teary-eyed. Even after being trialled and condemned, he's still decent to his judge and jailor. He reminisces about the time in Kirkwall, sharing his memories with the Inquisitor. And he's still sour about Meredith, and rightly so.

 

I don't care what other players have to say about him. He's not a bad person (character, in his case). Already having to sentence him to perpetual prison -just to see the dialog- was like inflicting a deep cut in my own heart.

[Bugsie]

I find him a very sympathetic and relatable villain. 

 

He admits to weakness, but points out that others are hardly saviours (in his eyes).  "Every saint has a past, and every sinner has a future"  (Oscar Wilde).

 

The best villains are not mindless moustache twirlers.

[Sifr]

So, if you reinstate him in the Order by the end of DA 2, it should be the kind of action that results in him NOT joining Corypheus. Actually, I'm pretty certain he would've tried to defend Ser Barris and the remaining good templars. And once he failed to do so, Samson could've run to Haven alongside Cole as one of the few survivors to warn the Inquisitor of the Magister's arrival.

 

Problem is of course, that reinstating him is also possibly what lead to his downfall?

 

If you went pro-Templar in DA2, Hawke mentions that the Templars ultimately forced them from the Viscount's seat after they started quaffing Red Lyrium, suggesting that it was one of the earliest places that Corypheus managed to turn? This can also be seen in how one of Samson's underlings (or the one in charge of them if you recruit the Templars in DAI) is Paxley, one of the recruits Hawke encountered back in DA2? Similarly, we're told that the Gallows is now covered in Red Lyrium which has seemingly spread from Meredith's statue, or perhaps was cultivated by those who'd turned? Finally, Certainty was reforged from the broken shards of Meredith's sword, which could have only been acquired if the Gallows was under Red Templar control?

 

All of this seems to make it very likely that Kirkwall was one of the first places turned, given it's proximity to the Vimmark Mountains where Corypheus was imprisoned for so long and that it follows the natural trail of breadcrumbs that Corypheus would have likely been on after the events of Legacy? While possessing Larius/Janeka, we know that he was contacted by Bianca, who likely was the one to tell him about Red Lyrium and the Thaig, which would have lead him to discovering about Meredith and what happened at the Gallows... which would have gotten the wheels spinning in his head?

 

Actually, come to think of it, regardless of whether he was reinstated or left to beg on the streets, it'd fit that Samson might have been one of the earliest turned Red Templars and why he'd become Samson's general?

 

If he was left to beg on the streets, the offer of all the lyrium he wanted, regardless of it's colour, would have probably appealed to him? While if reinstated, he'd have probably been one of those officers who did the trial-run of the stuff... and whether he was aware of it's effects and complicit in the plan, I suppose is better to remain ambiguous and upto each player to decide?

 

Regardless, after falling under it's thrall, Samson's disaffection with the Templars and the major chip on his shoulder he has when it comes to the Chantry, is probably why Corypheus' further offer to power, prestige and revenge would have probably seemed very tempting to him?

[Tigrae]

Regardless, after falling under it's thrall, Samson's disaffection with the Templars and the major chip on his shoulder he has when it comes to the Chantry, is probably why Corypheus' further offer to power, prestige and revenge would have probably seemed very tempting to him?

 

I'm sure Corypheus was very particular with who he singled out to lead his army of Templars: 

• Someone who is pretty resistant to the debilitating effects of red lyrium (probably Corypheus' first priority)
• Someone who can lead and inspire, because this red lyrium changeover is going to be horrible (we hear about this at Samson's judgement)
• Someone who has no love for the Chantry, or even the Templar Order (but cares very deeply about the Templars themselves)
• Someone who will fight and fight and fight because failure isn't an option for him.

He wants to matter, he wants to not be kicked around, he wants to make sure his templars are taken care of because the Chantry and the Order surely didn't take care of them. I think he's terrified of being nothing again. I mean, if you spent ten years of your life begging and scraping by, having people look through you day after day, you probably start to feel less than human. With this Corypheus, even if he doesn't believe in what Corypheus is trying to achieve, he can do something - he can be important, he can try to make something out of whatever kind of life the Chantry left for the Templars.

 

Knowing Jo Berry is around this thread makes me really nervous making character assumtions, haha!

[Bugsie]

I'm sure Jo is nodding her head in some places and shaking her head and thinking "how can they get it so wrong?" in others.

All good either way I'm sure!

[The Baconer]

One of the things I've been wondering is what to do with his sword, Certainty. Which also seems to be Meredith's sword. I could play a warrior to wield it, but since I tend to play mages and the only two-handed wielder in my party is Iron Bull, whom I never use, I wonder if something else should be done with it.

 

Poisoned thing. Destroy it.

[Xilizhra]

Poisoned thing. Destroy it.

Potentially, but it looks like a truly unique item; the reforging seems to have destroyed the maddening effect, but added multiple other energy sources. I'd rather not destroy it until we know it's not useful.

[TEWR]

I just learned how to get Samson imprisoned and went to talk to him in his cell. And...

 

The conversation is making me feel very teary-eyed. Even after being trialled and condemned, he's still decent to his judge and jailor. He reminisces about the time in Kirkwall, sharing his memories with the Inquisitor. And he's still sour about Meredith, and rightly so.

 

I don't care what other players have to say about him. He's not a bad person (character, in his case). Already having to sentence him to perpetual prison -just to see the dialog- was like inflicting a deep cut in my own heart.

 

Wait... you can talk with the jailed people?

 

Well, then I wish I was able to do that. All I ever got was blankness in the cells.

[The Baconer]

Potentially, but it looks like a truly unique item; the reforging seems to have destroyed the maddening effect, but added multiple other energy sources. I'd rather not destroy it until we know it's not useful.

 

A sword of deepest corruption and conviction, it cannot be the red lyrium blade that drove Kirkwall's Knight-Commander Meredith to madness. It cannot have been reborn in arcane energies somehow elven and Tevinter and Blight intertwined. And it cannot have inspired in the name of a magister who once entered heaven and would dare so again. One wonders what this sword cannot be next, in the hands of the Inquisitor, if she is not careful.

 

Let it be nothing ever again, I say.

[ModernAcademic]

 

Always

[Xilizhra]

 

Always

Nah. The mages need mercy.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Potentially, but it looks like a truly unique item; the reforging seems to have destroyed the maddening effect, but added multiple other energy sources. I'd rather not destroy it until we know it's not useful.

The description implies that the maddening effect is still there. Who knows how long before the Inquisitor goes crazy.

 

P.S. Why the hell does Certainty have a demon-slaying rune rather than a corrupting rune?

[thesuperdarkone2]

Wait... you can talk with the jailed people?

 

Well, then I wish I was able to do that. All I ever got was blankness in the cells.

You can't actually talk to them, rather prisoners have banter with each other if certain prisoners are locked up with them. For instance, Samson has banter with Ruth and Alexius.

[ModernAcademic]

You can talk to Samson if he's alone in jail.
During his trial, make sure to pick the "shove him in a hole" answer.
Then go to the prison. He'll be in a faraway cell, in a section that lies behind a door.