1268 réponses à ce sujet

[SgtSteel91]

That story had the Red Lyrium Armor being built but I wonder when Samson got Certainty? Maybe Corypheus gave it to him after he proved he could handle the armor?

[Tigrae]

Hate Samson all you want - just hate him for things you can actually blame him for. Hate him for mutating his friends, for dealing with a Choice Spirit, for capturing peasants to work in the Sarnia mines, but don't hate him for destroying the Templars - because that was something he couldn't have stopped.

 

If you really are just looking for people to hate on Samson with, it's probably more effective to hit up the Cullen thread. If you want to discuss his character and all of his failings as a person, then we're around and we'd love to discuss him. I'm sure if he were here, he'd talk about them himself.

 

He's regretful, not repentant.

[Tigrae]

That story had the Red Lyrium Armor being built but I wonder when Samson got Certainty? Maybe Corypheus gave it to him after he proved he could handle the armor?

 

I was wondering that, too! Since we don't see it in the story Jo posted. I think you're right in that Corypheus might have been waiting to see if he could handle the armor. I imagined he got the sword and armor right before they stormed Haven.

[Bugsie]

I was wondering that, too! Since we don't see it in the story Jo posted. I think you're right in that Corypheus might have been waiting to see if he could handle the armor. I imagined he got the sword and armor right before they stormed Haven.

That's pretty much my head canon on it.  Although I'd change it if shown otherwise!

[Arcanista]

Kinda what I was thinking too, but I like that there's some play to it. Wiggle room is good for you, haha.

[Tigrae]

Cory wants his General looking fly when he stands on that hill. He's got an image to maintain.

 

But still, though - imagine Samson looking at Certainty and knowing that it's Meredith's sword and how much he hated her, but picking up her blade. The thoughts that must have been going on in his head...

[Bugsie]

Ha kudos to Jo and Bioware for providing us 'thirsty for canon Samson back story' with something!

 

 

Cory wants his General looking fly when he stands on that hill. He's got an image to maintain.

 

But still, though - imagine Samson looking at Certainty and knowing that it's Meredith's sword and how much he hated her, but picking up her blade. The thoughts that must have been going on in his head...

 

Gaahhh more feelz.

 

Gosh his anger is so palpable.

 

I mean look at the way he says Meredith in this...

 

[Arcanista]

Cory wants his General looking fly when he stands on that hill. He's got an image to maintain.

 

But still, though - imagine Samson looking at Certainty and knowing that it's Meredith's sword and how much he hated her, but picking up her blade. The thoughts that must have been going on in his head...

 

Gosh, he must hate using that sword, must hate how he gets used to it, hate how it starts to feel comfortable in his hands, hate how he gets to know which way the balance is juuuuust slightly off, but he still does it.

[ModernAcademic]

*pops in* o hey dudes whats going on here

 

 

If you're wondering which way it is to the hills, it's over there. *points a timid index*

[Boost32]

Hate Samson all you want - just hate him for things you can actually blame him for. Hate him for mutating his friends, for dealing with a Choice Spirit, for capturing peasants to work in the Sarnia mines, but don't hate him for destroying the Templars - because that was something he couldn't have stopped.
 
If you really are just looking for people to hate on Samson with, it's probably more effective to hit up the Cullen thread. If you want to discuss his character and all of his failings as a person, then we're around and we'd love to discuss him. I'm sure if he were here, he'd talk about them himself.
 
He's regretful, not repentant.

Again I was just venting after reading the short story, and yes I dislike him for every thing you wrote, and what happens at Therinfal is his fault, it was his plan, thats why Corypheus dispose him if the Inquisitor do the Champions of the Just.

[ModernAcademic]

That story had the Red Lyrium Armor being built but I wonder when Samson got Certainty? Maybe Corypheus gave it to him after he proved he could handle the armor?

 

Now there's another great theme for us to have a second short story on Samson.

 

*eyes Jo hopefully* 

 

[Arcanista]

Again I was just venting after reading the short story, and yes I dislike him for every thing you wrote, and what happens at Therinfal is his fault, it was his plan, thats why Corypheus dispose him if the Inquisitor do the Champions of the Just.

 

Do you have a source on this? I'm curious; I only know of one codex entry (edit: correction, two; I forgot there is a letter directly from him in Therinfal) that even references him if you take the Champions of the Just route, and it doesn't say much. I'd love to know what I'm missing!

[ModernAcademic]

Wha- they're hating Samson on the cullen thread? Why? Why on earth would-

No. Wait. I forgot. That thread has been abandoned by civilised people. The fanatics have taken over. 

Nevermind. Forget I asked anything. o/

[BoscoBread]

Again I was just venting after reading the short story, and yes I dislike him for every thing you wrote, and what happens at Therinfal is his fault, it was his plan, thats why Corypheus dispose him if the Inquisitor do the Champions of the Just.

The fall of the Templars is as much Samson's fault as the mage/templar war was the fault of Anders. Which is to say it wasn't. 

 

This is a massive institution. Complicated by a hell of a lot of intra-political turmoil.  The Chantry has done the mages and the templars NO favors.  

 

What I find kind of funny. I had no real love for the Templars until this game and until I recruited the mages.  Now I have nothing but positive Templar feels. Samson and the DLC kind of made a believer out of me. 

[Boost32]

Do you have a source on this? I'm curious; I only know of one codex entry that even references him if you take the Champions of the Just route, and it doesn't say much. I'd love to know what I'm missing!

He sent a letter to Envy giving him instructions.

Spoiler

[Arcanista]

Interesting; you're reading into that letter in ways that I would not. Looks like that letter is to the pre-Envy Lord Seeker, by the by, not that there's a ton of difference given that they're complicit-- which is something I think you're neglecting, in re the destruction of the Templars.

 

So yeah, he is a source of red lyrium to the Templar Order, and he does provide directives for how to usher Templars through the changes. Given the second half of the letter explicitly hands over command to the Lord Seeker, I question how much of the rest of the plan he was in on; certainly he was not issuing military orders.

 

He's doing harm to the order, no lie, but even this letter makes it clear the rot spreads beyond him.

 

I know we have no stated confirmation of his becoming an ex-parrot on this route though; there's the later letter from Serapin to Calpernia that says 'without Samson's leadership' that the Red Templars are falling apart, but in this very letter he hands over leadership to the Lord Seeker. Certainly there's no confirmation of his death, let alone that Corypheus did it, or why. That's pure speculation.

[BoscoBread]

He sent a letter to Envy giving him instructions.

Spoiler

Ok. So yeah...it's vague. But what I find amusing is that the love he has for his men is just written all over this. 

 

...I can't with you, dude.  Like I get not liking him, or his actions with Corypheus, but seriously...can you not see that he cares for his troops?? This is fact. IT'S RIGHT THERE. 

[Boost32]

Interesting; you're reading into that letter in ways that I would not. Looks like that letter is to the pre-Envy Lord Seeker, by the by, not that there's a ton of difference given that they're complicit-- which is something I think you're neglecting, in re the destruction of the Templars.
 
So yeah, he is a source of red lyrium to the Templar Order, and he does provide directives for how to usher Templars through the changes. Given the second half of the letter explicitly hands over command to the Lord Seeker, I question how much of the rest of the plan he was in on; certainly he was not issuing military orders.
 
He's doing harm to the order, no lie, but even this letter makes it clear the rot spreads beyond him.
 
I know we have no stated confirmation of his becoming an ex-parrot on this route though; there's the later letter from Serapin to Calpernia that says 'without Samson's leadership' that the Red Templars are falling apart, but in this very letter he hands over leadership to the Lord Seeker. Certainly there's no confirmation of his death, let alone that Corypheus did it, or why. That's pure speculation.

In the Temple of Dumat quest you can find a memory crystal that belongs to Corypheus, he says that Samson failed him, the only thing he could have failed is the events at Therinfal.

[Sports72Xtrm]

Another good man crushed by a dehumanizing world. I was on the fence about serving him to kirkwall on a silver platter to get varric approval points but after reading this, I just can't. He deserves redemption, he has good in him. He should be a part of the Inquisition. Those bible thumping chantry and cruel templars deserve to burn. I would trade a million Delrin Barris for one Samson.

[Boost32]

Ok. So yeah...it's vague. But what I find amusing is that the love he has for his men is just written all over this.

...I can't with you, dude. Like I get not liking him, or his actions with Corypheus, but seriously...can you not see that he cares for his troops?? This is fact. IT'S RIGHT THERE.

Sorry but I dont see how turning people into raging monsters who will suffer a untinkable pain and be turned into a red lyrium statue is caring for them.

[Arcanista]

The line in that quest about him is entirely "Samson has failed." That's it. Not confirmation of death. It's not even allusion to it. Is it possible he's dead? Certainly, but there's not a very strong textual case stated for either him being alive or dead.

 

I think you're intentionally overlooking a lot of other factors that contributed to the implosion of the Templars in favour of a single-man scapegoat, tbh. And no, he's not blameless, but neither is he the only or even primary actor here.

 

I note that even with him supplying red lyrium to the Templars at Therinfal, if the Lord Seeker had been on the up-and-up, none of this would have happened.

[ModernAcademic]

Boost32, you're not gonna manage to convince those people of your opinion. You've already convinced me, in case you're wondering (and if my opinion matters to you at all   ). 

Just remember you don't have to justify your opinion about a game or its characters to anyone. It is within your right to come to the Forum and comment on a character, either positively or negatively. Only the Modders and your conscience can judge your actions. 

[Arcanista]

No one's saying they don't have the right to talk? It's an interesting, and by-and-large civil, discussion.

[Boost32]

The line in that quest about him is entirely "Samson has failed." That's it. Not confirmation of death. It's not even allusion to it. Is it possible he's dead? Certainly, but there's not a very strong textual case stated for either him being alive or dead.

I was just make a point about Therinfal baing his plan, not about his life or death, sorry by not making it clear.
And Im not blaming only him, the others died by the hand of my Inquisitor or by the hands of the others templars, but to me he is the main responsible for what happened at Therinfal, it was his plan and I can do nothing about him.
If the Inquisition dissolve the Templar Order and Leliana is made Divine it didnt destroyed the templars, they still exist but they are now Inquisition's templars, it doesnt matter to me who they serve. They cease to exist because of Therinfal.

Boost32, you're not gonna manage to convince those people of your opinion. You've already convinced me, in case you're wondering (and if my opinion matters to you at all   ). 
Just remember you don't have to justify your opinion about a game or its characters to anyone. It is within your right to come to the Forum and comment on a character, either positively or negatively. Only the Modders and your conscience can judge your actions.

Dont worry Im not trying to convince anyone, I just want to explain my point, dont want to be labelled a mindless hater.
I might have not broken any of the sites rules, but I was rude coming into a thread and posting my rage, so I think I need to apologize for it.

[BoscoBread]

Sorry but I dont see how turning people into raging monsters who will suffer a untinkable pain and be turned into a red lyrium statue is caring for them.

Ok, again, noone is justifying his actions or saying that they are good but it's not all black and white. Corypheus was going to corrupt the templars with or without Samson.  So Samson steps in and protects them as much as he can.  Even with everything he's done he wants to make sure they are comfortable and that they are treated well.