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[Master Warder Z_]

 Sure it's a noble cause the way you put it, but how many of such children go into it fully understanding the consequences? 

 

Their adults when they take vows and they know what it will be to be Templar, you can walk or not by that point.

[ThreeF]

Their adults when they take vows and they know what it will be to be Templar, you can walk or not by that point.

 

Adults taught since children values and ideas convenient to Chantry. Also speaking of walking away....to where? Does the chantry gives them something that will keep   them on their feet  until they find a job or something?

 

The whole circle system is very open to abuse no matter how you look at it.

[Boost32]

Yep, they can die. Doesn't mean they will. That's the problem. You'll take any short cut that makes sure you can keep your addiction.

 

Some end up mad, eventually losing all their memories and sense of self, like stated in the Codex Confessions Of A Lyrium Addict. The poor guy couldn't even sign his name due to his shaky hands and after having completely forgotten how he was called.

 

If the templars tried to overcome their addiction, maybe most of them would've survived, like Cullen did.

One of my favourite epilogues is the one where the last members of the Order follow his example. 

You are saying like Lyrium is a drug, its not. Its a tool that give Templars their supernatural power against magic, without it they are like normal soldier, they cant nullify magic and arent resistant to it anymore.

The Chantry should send simple soldier against a abomination/apostate?

 

 

I keep wondering that, if the templars thought they weren't going to die from lyrium withdrawal, maybe they wouldn't have chosen to follow Corypheus.

 

Another lie the Chantry propagated which had devastating consequences.

 

They didnt choose to follow Corypheus, they are tricked by their corrupted leaders (the uncorrupted ones died at the conclave or were assassinated). If you go eith the Templars, you save the majority of them.

And its not a lie, just because they handwaved the Lyrium withdrawl issue with Cullen, doesnt mean its a lie.

 

Adults taught since children values and ideas convenient to Chantry. Also speaking of walking away....to where? Does the chantry gives them something that will keep   them on their feet  until they find a job or something?

 

The whole circle system is very open to abuse no matter how you look at it.

 

And what system you propose? Without their anti-maagic powers, how the templars will fight against magic?

[Master Warder Z_]

Adults taught since children values and ideas convenient to Chantry. Also speaking of walking away....to where? Does the chantry gives them something that will keep   them on their feet  until they find a job or something?

 

They can join other portions of the Chantry or forge their own path; The Order keeps no one held hostage and forced to join.

 

They are a militant body after all.

[ThreeF]

And what system you propose? Without their anti-maagic powers, how the templars will fight against magic?

In Thedas? Heck if I know.

 

I'm just saying it's open to abuse, which is not my personal opinion the whole Mage/Templar situation is build upon that, it's just pity that we have to wait till Cassandra to take notice that mages are not the only one with problems born from this system.

 

 

They can join other portions of the Chantry or forge their own path; The Order keeps no one held hostage and forced to join.

There is hostage and there is hostage.

[Master Warder Z_]

There is hostage and there is hostage.

 

Really?

 

That's like saying when i got off the boat and had nothing to my name besides American Citizenship i was forced to join the army.

 

Choice is choice.

 

Regardless if it seems like there is no choice at all, is it tempting to stay were you are fed, housed and paid? Definitely, but no doubt you are made well aware of the dangers and risk before you join.

 

You are taught combat skills for a reason, you are taught to be a warrior for a reason, by the time you join you have a skillset any guardsmen would love, you are educated, you are capable of looking for work in many professions from menial to war.

[ThreeF]

You are taught combat skills for a reason, you are taught to be a warrior for a reason, by the time you join you have a skillset any guardsmen would love, you are educated, you are capable of looking for work in many professions from menial to war.

In any case your life is decided for you the moment you are born (we are still talking about cases of  children that were given to the chantry at birth without their consent)

 

And again I'm going to  repeat this: I doubt Chantry running a charity when training potential Templars.

[Boost32]

In Thedas? Heck if I know.

 

I'm just saying it's open to abuse, which is not my personal opinion the whole Mage/Templar situation is build upon that, it's just pity that we have to wait till Cassandra to take notice that mages are not the only one with problems born from this system.

In every system there will be abuse, show me one that doesnt have.

[Master Warder Z_]

And again I'm going to  repeat this: I doubt Chantry running a charity when training potential Templars.

 

They can walk away; that has been made clear repeatedly on the subject.

 

Would the Chantry be irked? Maybe, but would they allow it? Yes.

[ThreeF]

In every system there will be abuse, show me one that doesnt have.

Sure, and? This is not why I'm having this conversation. It's not about if a system can be abused, it's about that it is abused.

[ThreeF]

They can walk away; that has been made clear repeatedly on the subject.

 

Would the Chantry be irked? Maybe, but would they allow it? Yes.

It makes more sense that Chantry would ensure that there would be as few cases of it as possible by using eduction.

 

There is a codex in a cave at Western Approach that describes how a little mage was brought to a circle, the way the adult in the codex explains to the child what will happen to him using non-lies is a bit creepy but can be a clue of how children where taught things.

[Boost32]

Sure, and? This is not why I'm having this conversation. It's not about if a system can be abused, it's about that it is abused.

If you cant prevent abuses and you dont know a better way, what you want to do?

[ThreeF]

If you cant prevent abuses and you dont know a better way, what you want to do?

huh? I'm not sure why you are insisting on this but  since you insist.... you can at least try to prevent/minimize abuse where you can, for instance by not accepting newborns and orphans nobody wants in your ranks, by not instilling blind fear toward magic, by telling the absolute truth and not non-lies when you educate your charges. There are ways.

 

Chantry creates little monsters to keep other monsters in check, it's one happy dysfunctional  family.

 

 

On a side note: if you look at it from the outside, Warden, Hawke, Inquisitor and Co all somehow manage to kill mages left and right without the need to be Templars.

[Sifr]

You are saying like Lyrium is a drug, its not. Its a tool that give Templars their supernatural power against magic, without it they are like normal soldier, they cant nullify magic and arent resistant to it anymore.

 

Err... the Lyrium withdrawal that Cullen goes through in Inquisition when he stops taking it, as well as Templars like Carroll and Samson being explicitly referred to as addicts, would seem to disagree with that statement?

 

It is a tool to help the Templars fight magic, yes, but it's most definitely a drug that causes the person taking it to eventually develop a psychological and physiological need to keep taking it, not just to maintain their powers. Likewise, longterm use has deleterious effects, as we see with older Templars who end up becoming Lyrium addled after a couple decades of sustained use, eventually being put out to pasture by the Chantry.

[TheLastArchivist]

You are saying like Lyrium is a drug, its not. Its a tool that give Templars their supernatural power against magic, without it they are like normal soldier, they cant nullify magic and arent resistant to it anymore.

The Chantry should send simple soldier against a abomination/apostate?

 

Lyrium is addictive, toxic and acts as a sort of sedative (diminishes the nightmares and other "mental and emotional issues").

When you stop to take it, you suffer from withdrawal pains. You also start hallucinating and have an uncontrollable urge to take more, no matter what the cost. 

Prolonged usage causes permanent brain damage, with loss of memories and sense of self (see codex Confessions Of A Lyrium Addict).

 

It is a drug, friend. It has all the properties of one. A drug that's institutionalized by the Chantry. 

Thedas is a very dark place.

[Sifr]

Yeah, if Lyrium didn't have those awful side-effects, there's no way that Samson would have ended up in the bad situation he found himself and begging on the streets, once he got kicked out of the Templars and without any legitimate avenues to get a fix?

[zestalyn]

I love this little comic someone made depicting a moment between Samson and Cullen after his judgement. 

Spoiler

 
source
 

For me, it's as though he hangs his head in regret and shame. What must it be like for him to see another templar manage to break free of the lyrium leash? The last panel also reminded me of the way Cullen sulks in a similar fashion if you make him take lyrium. It's just sad. 

Lets also take a moment to appreciate his tavern song 

[SmilesJA]

That was a magnifcent comic! I wish that was in the game!

[SmilesJA]

Lyrium is addictive, toxic and acts as a sort of sedative (diminishes the nightmares and other "mental and emotional issues").

When you stop to take it, you suffer from withdrawal pains. You also start hallucinating and have an uncontrollable urge to take more, no matter what the cost. 

Prolonged usage causes permanent brain damage, with loss of memories and sense of self (see codex Confessions Of A Lyrium Addict).

 

It is a drug, friend. It has all the properties of one. A drug that's institutionalized by the Chantry. 

Thedas is a very dark place.

 

And the worst part it's useless in regards of granting a Templar their powers. It's just a form of control by the Chantry, when you think about it they are very cold blooded in regards in how they treat their Templars. No wonder why Samson was disllusioned with it.

[Lavaeolus]

@above: The line by Alistair in Origins has since been retconned. Templars need lyrium to use their powers, not just to make them stronger, but to use them at all.

[dragonflight288]

Templars can die from withdrawal.

It's a lot more then a mere intoxicant.

Your taking in a force that grounds reality in Thedas, something that can snuff magic from the hands of a mage.

Something that changes you down to the bone.

It's a primal force, not heroin.

 

It can also bodily mutate, cause contusions, and even extreme malformalities just by getting close to the unprocessed ore, unless you're a dwarf. 

[SgtSteel91]

I think his Red Lyrium armor is pretty sweet. Like fantasy power armor. Wonder if you can make the same armor with Blue Lyrium?

[New Kid]

I thought Samson's role in DA:I was, putting it bluntly: rubbish. 

[SmilesJA]

I thought Samson's role in DA:I was, putting it bluntly: rubbish. 

 

Why?

[Sifr]

I think his Red Lyrium armor is pretty sweet. Like fantasy power armor. Wonder if you can make the same armor with Blue Lyrium?

 

It probably depends whether Samson's armour was powered by Red Lyrium enchantments or instead worked by drawing on the power of Red Lyrium itself that Samson was taking, kinda like how Meredith was able to get some weird abilities by channelling them through her sword?

 

I suspect with Blue Lyrium, the most you could do is merely give yourself some armour with some awesome enchantments, which is probably the in-universe explanation for most of the buffs we have on our armours anyway?