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The Samson thread: We are all Samsonsexual!


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#1051
Sable Rhapsody

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Sinking with the same ship DA2. Because of this, I have always 2 canon characters simultaneously, so I can care for both factions  ^_^

 

I have this weird tic where I can only use one voice per PC because I wind up really strongly associating the voice with a particular character.  Which pretty much bottlenecked me at 2 worldstates for Dragon Age.  I'm ok with that, though.  I roleplay a lot, so I put way too much thought into the individual PCs and have a hard time coming up with a bunch of them.

 

After DA:I, I just want to give everyone a hug.  Except the Orlesian nobility.  I want to hit them with Aveline's "DON'T" sign.


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#1052
ModernAcademic

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The way the police has been acting lately compared to 20 years ago is very similar to the way the Templars were before and after Meredith.

 

Thrask said once that templars and mages should be working together against demonic influence. Instead, ever since Meredith took charge, they have become enemies.  

Templars like Emeric, Thrask and Samson have been demoralised or pushed away from the Order, while ones like Alrik, Karras and Cullen have been promoted. 

 

This excessive repression, coupled with arbitrary decisions by the Knight-Commander have actually thrown templars and mages against each other (it's no wonder demons were feasting on Kirkwall mages by the end of Act 3). And if you check how police violence has increased lately, with there even being an act Obama signed that allows suspects of terrorism to be arrested without a warrant, you can see tyranny is replacing democracy little by little.

 

Can this state of affairs lead to protests and...civil war? Does life imitate art here? Or  could it be simply a bunch of random rambling?



#1053
SmilesJA

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I have this weird tic where I can only use one voice per PC because I wind up really strongly associating the voice with a particular character.  Which pretty much bottlenecked me at 2 worldstates for Dragon Age.  I'm ok with that, though.  I roleplay a lot, so I put way too much thought into the individual PCs and have a hard time coming up with a bunch of them.

 

After DA:I, I just want to give everyone a hug.  Except the Orlesian nobility.  I want to hit them with Aveline's "DON'T" sign.

 

Orlesians...... 



#1054
turuzzusapatuttu

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After reading Samson's short story, I must admit I feel more empathy for him. Obviously I don't approve his crimes, but I can understand what it means to be forced to live under the hypocrisy of the Chantry. And that can be applied to both templars and mages.


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#1055
ModernAcademic

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The Chantry sure turned a blind eye to abuses; a fictional way to criticise religious institutions known to us.

 

But the bigger an institution, the harder it is for it to be controlled. As its power and influence expands, corruption tends to become inevitable. Concessions must be made for its continuous survival, situations that grow out of control can only be resolved by questionable methods, among other practises that end up soiling its once good reputation.

 

So the institution stops being what it was when it was founded and becomes concerned with its own continuity. It is sustained by hopocrisy itself.

 

A lot of politics is based on hipocrisy. Without it, it would be impossible to have politics. Even honest and more transparent governments, like in Iceland, have their amount of hipocrisy.

 

The problem is when the corruption and inneficiency become so overwhelming, not even hipocrisy can prevent the system from imploding.

 

A bit of honest work is always necessary. Someone must work to keep the system going, even when they are not fairly rewarded for their efforts. 



#1056
Eliantariel

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He's pretty great. And by pretty great - a crippingly heart-breaking character that I emo out about maybe 2x a day(i'm exaggerating...a bit).  In all seriousness, I've derived a great amount of enjoyment of delving into his character. I am much more sympathetic to the templars -- and find that the Chantry has done the mages AND the templars a significant disservice a fact that I really didn't pay attention to until this game. Frankly I think it needs to be disabanded or completely overhauled.  Hardened-Leliana will be Divine in probably all my canon PT's - so my Lavellan/Solas and Trev/Nobody(because only Samson is worthy of her). 

 

For fanfics - might I peddle my dearest friend's work - Meer(on here) - http://archiveofouro...y/pseuds/meerly

(If you haven't read it.) it's pretty sweet and wonderful.  Also must check out Bugsie's stuff, Tigrae, and Arcanista's Samson fics. They are all pretty much, must reads.

 

And then click on Vhenan Trash in my signature and read Sable's stuff on there. She wrote some really sad and sweet non-romantic Samson stuff. 

 

The decision to get the templars or mages is always hard for me - I don't like leaving the other group behind. I wish we could do both quests and save both templars and mages as much as possible.

 

Aren't the reforms Leliana is going to do as divine the same if she is hardened or softened? I thought if hardened she is only more ruthless about it. 

 

Thank you very much for the fanfiction suggestions, I was just reading Modern Academics fanfiction about Samson (Nightmares of Red Stone) which is awesome but I will definitely read the others too (and everything else I can find :) ).

 

And I am waiting for my WoT2 book with hopefully much more information about Samson which unfortunately seems to be shipped to me rather late at the end of may :(


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#1057
ModernAcademic

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Thank you very much for the fanfiction suggestions, I was just reading Modern Academics fanfiction about Samson (Nightmares of Red Stone) which is awesome but I will definitely read the others too (and everything else I can find :) ).

 

*big lump forms in throat*

 

I'm...I'm just...

 

post-40935-Wilfred-Mott-crying-gif-Imgur

 

Thank you.  <3 



#1058
Sable Rhapsody

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The decision to get the templars or mages is always hard for me - I don't like leaving the other group behind. I wish we could do both quests and save both templars and mages as much as possible.

 

The decision is hard, but IMO it's one of the few points in DA:I where it actually feels like you're in trouble.  You're not Inquisitor yet.  You don't have a continent spanning network of spies, or an army that will shake the ground when it marches.  You're just a bunch of people trying to fix a mess that might be beyond you, so losing the side you don't pick really hit home for me.  It actually feels like a race against the clock.

 

As opposed to the rest of DA:I, where you can dick around for months collecting shards, and Cory...sits on his hands?  Knits?  Writes lurid love poetry to the Architect?  :P


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#1059
Tigrae

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About two months ago I had an idea for a redemption arc for Samson (based on The Celebrant's sword from DA2). I posted it to get a sort of check on how ridiculous it sounded, when enoxsis picked it up and wrote a drabble of the actual tourney fight.

 

I loved it so much, I treated myself to a self-indulgent illustration from the amazing Heathwind (the same artist who did babby Templar Samson). I just got the finished illustration in a few days ago, so I thought I'd share.

 

“She turned to offer him an apology, but he was too caught up in the moment to care. He grabbed her up in his arms and held her high on his chest, beaming. She was surprised, but she didn’t seem to mind.
When he kissed her, the crowd fell silent.”

 

 

tumblr_nnrpeiZSBe1rdme61o1_1280.png

 

[Source]


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#1060
SmilesJA

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It's beautiful!



#1061
ModernAcademic

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An interesting excerpt posted on Tumblr about Meredith justifying Samson's expulsion:

 

tumblr_no91d8dJSZ1qhdfiuo1_500.png

 

My opinion on the matter:

 

Leaving a drug addict to cope on his own with no income, no job and nowhere to live was irresponsible, to say the least. 

If Meredith was so afraid of corruption within the Order, then Samson should’ve been punished with an early retirement and been shipped from Kirkwall. 

 

Full text HERE

 

What are your thoughts on this?


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#1062
Sable Rhapsody

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Leaving a drug addict to cope on his own with no income, no job and nowhere to live was irresponsible, to say the least. 

If Meredith was so afraid of corruption within the Order, then Samson should’ve been punished with an early retirement and been shipped from Kirkwall. 

 

Full text HERE

 

What are your thoughts on this?

 

That would have been the practical approach, yes.  But Meredith is intensely paranoid of magic as a character trait, independent of the effect of the lyrium idol.  So while it's a bad idea, it's in keeping with her character.  She's not the type to forgive disloyalty in her templars, nor does she understand the root of Samson's compassion toward mages.


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#1063
The Baconer

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What are your thoughts on this?


If I had to rate Meredith on a scale of 1 - 10 of her leadership qualities, she'd score a "Warren Harding". That about sums up my thoughts on the matter.
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#1064
Bugsie

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Just thinking about that posters earlier assumption about Samson apparently being pretty much solely responsible for the destruction of the Templars.  Then after re-reading Jo's story coming across this passage:

 

Things began to change after that. Samson paid the stranger’s price, would pay it forever, but he knew what he was buying. So did many other like-minded templars.  As for the rest of the Order… Samson looked into the face of his guilt and accepted that too. If it meant a world where the Chantry’s crimes could never happen again, so be it.

 

I love it when people make the Templar Order to be so full of saints - when this is clearly not the case.  SO... many others took the red willingly too... changes things a bit I'd say.

 

Also I'd like to know more about Samson's motivations for helping mages.  Within the circle - it's suggested he sometimes did it for extra lyrium, but surely out of the order there must have been less risky ways to make money than helping apostates?  What motivated him there?


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#1065
Tigrae

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Also I'd like to know more about Samson's motivations for helping mages.  Within the circle - it's suggested he sometimes did it for extra lyrium, but surely out of the order there must have been less risky ways to make money than helping apostates?  What motivated him there?

 

Are we talking the mages he helps get onto ships? I think it's a mixture of him trying to assuage his guilt about Maddox (a mage he failed to help in the worst way), and believing that it's the right thing to do. He knows what the Gallows is like under Meredith, and he probably thinks being on the run is a better life.

 

I think part of his motivation is also showing Meredith that not even kicking him out of the Order can stop him from helping mages.


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#1066
Boost32

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Just thinking about that posters earlier assumption about Samson apparently being pretty much solely responsible for the destruction of the Templars.  Then after re-reading Jo's story coming across this passage:
 

 
I love it when people make the Templar Order to be so full of saints - when this is clearly not the case.  SO... many others took the red willingly too... changes things a bit I'd say.

Don't put words in my mouth.
Never said he was the sole responsible, I said he was responsible, he was the archtect of the plan to corrupt the templars at Therinfal.

Never said that templars were saints, those who took it willingly are traitors who deserved their fate. And "many" is a stretch, they were few, if you do the templar version of Arbor Wilds, you will come across a note from Calpernia where its stated those red templars attacking you are the last of them, so there aren't many of them.

#1067
BoscoBread

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Don't put words in my mouth.
Never said he was the sole responsible, I said he was responsible, he was the archtect of the plan to corrupt the templars at Therinfal.

Never said that templars were saints, those who took it willingly are traitors who deserved their fate. And "many" is a stretch, they were few, if you do the templar version of Arbor Wilds, you will come across a note from Calpernia where its stated those red templars attacking you are the last of them, so there aren't many of them.

Samson is NOT the architect of the corruption of the templars. Corypheus is. 

 

Samson is a general.  Why he is able to sway so many to his cause is his natural charisma which is why - in part - Corypheus chooses him to lead the templars.  He plans tactics and military movements under the direction of Corypheus.  He rallies his men. That's it.  Samson's involvement does not change Corypheus' need for the templars.  They were always going to be used.  Period. All Samson did was lead them and in his mind tried to give them a purpose and protect them from another leader that would have just used and discarded them. 


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#1068
Boost32

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Samson is NOT the architect of the corruption of the templars. Corypheus is.

Samson is a general. Why he is able to sway so many to his cause is his natural charisma which is why - in part - Corypheus chooses him to lead the templars. He plans tactics and military movements under the direction of Corypheus. He rallies his men. That's it. Samson's involvement does not change Corypheus' need for the templars. They were always going to be used. Period. All Samson did was lead them and in his mind tried to give them a purpose and protect them from another leader that would have just used and discarded them.

Sansom sent instructions to envy and at the temple of Dumat Corypheus says that Samson failed him, those 2 evidence shows the Therinfal plan was his, not Corypheus.
And he sanctioned the events at the Emprise du Lion and Emerald Graves.
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#1069
ModernAcademic

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Sansom sent instructions to envy and Corypheus says that Samson at the temple of Dumat failed him, those 2 evidence shows the Therinfal plan was his, not Corypheus.
And he sanctioned the eventos at the Emprise du Lion and Emerald Graves.

 

I think the whole affair was poorly explained in the game. We can only guess based on notes and one or two minimalistic assertions made by Corypheus. It's difficult to be sure of the extension of Samson's role in corrupting the Templar Order without further information.  :?  


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#1070
Sable Rhapsody

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I think the whole affair was poorly explained in the game. We can only guess based on notes and one or two minimalistic assertions made by Corypheus. It's difficult to be sure of the extension of Samson's role in corrupting the Templar Order without further information.  :?  

 

I do think it's possible that Therinfall was Samson's idea.  He might have thought he was doing the Orlesian templars a favor by turning them to Corypheus.  After all, even if templars elsewhere didn't have to contend with Meredith's particular brand of crazy, they'd still be subject to the same abuses of power from the Chantry in the form of lyrium addiction.  And the dissolution of the Nevarran Accords began at the White Spire in Orlais with the previous Lord Seeker.  Maybe he thought he could make common cause with them.

 

As for Envy, doesn't it specifically say that Corypheus promised it the Herald?  It's been a while since I played the quest.



#1071
Bugsie

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Don't put words in my mouth.
Never said he was the sole responsible, I said he was responsible, he was the archtect of the plan to corrupt the templars at Therinfal.

Never said that templars were saints, those who took it willingly are traitors who deserved their fate. And "many" is a stretch, they were few, if you do the templar version of Arbor Wilds, you will come across a note from Calpernia where its stated those red templars attacking you are the last of them, so there aren't many of them.

You've come into this thread and have consistently stated some of your head canon as fact (of which from the horses mouth has shown not to be true).  You've denied the actual written word about his character - as stated by the writers and written in the wiki - all for some personal beef you have about your beloved Templars.  No one here is disputing he is villain, no one here is disputing his role in the downfall of the Templar order, no one is excusing his behaviour as anything other than that of a misguided fool with intentions that he thought would benefit those left behind by the Chantry ('Fool' is the word Samson uses about himself).  He's a villain and a murderer - that actually is fact.

 

We're only now getting more information about him thanks to the release of the World of Thedas Volume 2.  It explains things - it doesn't excuse it, - so I am sitting here mouth agape with yet another assertion by you - that when the actual writer says 'many' you say 'no actually it it's few' many is 'a stretch'  SMH.

 

You don't like the way Jo writes Samson?  You'd have him a moustache twirler where everyone should hate him because 'Templar's rull!!!!!111'?  Your game, your headcanon, but please, it's headcanon not fact.

 

In addition to all of this, the timeline is all mussed up and unclear and I'm hoping to see more about that in WOT - especially when did they all start taking lyrium?  I can't find any information about it.

 

I'm grateful, finally, to see a layered portrayal of a villain, one who's not without Compassion (too often portrayed as a weakness) and I personally bristle when Cullen uses that word in judgement, who means well but is just really a F*ck up.  He's nuanced and I rather like that he is more than just his evil deeds.

 

EDIT: in regard to the Saint comment, I wasn't referring to you specifically but an observation on uber Pro-Templar supporters (I can say the same thing about uber Pro-Mage supporters too.)  It fits with the extremist viewpoints that either group can do no wrong.  That really isn't true now given what we've seen in game.

 

I think the whole affair was poorly explained in the game. We can only guess based on notes and one or two minimalistic assertions made by Corypheus. It's difficult to be sure of the extension of Samson's role in corrupting the Templar Order without further information.  :?  

 

 Yes but people seem to like to draw long bows given just a skerrit of information.  That's fine, just don't insist that they're fact in the face that no, it's actually not (from the developers and writers), and I'm down with talking headcanon and ideas.  My own headcanons and ideas could easily be disproved by what the writers do with the characters, so far I haven't been disappointed, but you know what, I'm happy to acknowledge when I have it wrong, it should be fun to discuss this, not made to feel like utter crap by others for having contrary opinions, something this site and some of its users do so well.

 

This site really isn't worth it sometimes (although I still keep coming back)


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#1072
ModernAcademic

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Yes but people seem to like to draw long bows given just a skerrit of information.  That's fine, just don't insist that they're fact in the face that no, it's actually not (from the developers and writers), and I'm down with talking headcanon and ideas.  My own headcanons and ideas could easily be disproved by what the writers do with the characters, so far I haven't been disappointed, but you know what, I'm happy to acknowledge when I have it wrong, it should be fun to discuss this, not made to feel like utter crap by others for having contrary opinions, something this site and some of its users do so well.

 

This site really isn't worth it sometimes (although I still keep coming back)

 

Why are you "shouting" and using an impolite tone (since you quoted my post and used the word you)?

 

And why are you addressing me at all on a subject that has nothing to do with my post? 

 

 

I quoted Boost32's post and commented DA:I's lack of information on Samson and Corypheus, which is by now something commonly noticed by many players. What does that have to do with what YOU said (people discussing headcannons)?

 

 

If you're angry about something, you should take it to the people that made you feel this way, not shout at other people. 


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#1073
Bugsie

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Wut?

 

Did I put things in ALL CAPS?  DId I bold anything?  NO I did none of these things. As for impolite 'tone'?  You are very mistaken about my 'tone' towards your particular post.

 

I'm agreeing with you!!!  :huh:

 

I apologise if it came across that way, I was merely venting my frustration at those that insist that their personal head canon is word of god. All wiith knowing very little - and what you said has everything to do with headcanon - because we don't know and people make things up to try and understand that?  (and my frustration rests solely with those people, who in the face of little information, insist that their personal head canon is true.)


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#1074
ModernAcademic

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:o

In this case, allow me to apologise for my outburst back there, Bugsie. I'm truly sorry. I take back everything I said. 


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#1075
ModernAcademic

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And let me say I think very much along the same lines.  ^_^ The beauty of there being these gaps in information is that it provides us, fans, more opportunities to fill them with the best our imagination can come up with. 

Much of the amazing fanfiction and artwork out there was born no doubt out of this.

 

Once again, I apologise for my outburst and I hope I've helped undo this misunderstanding.  :blush:


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