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[Boost32]

You've come into this thread and have consistently stated some of your head canon as fact (of which from the horses mouth has shown not to be true).  You've denied the actual written word about his character - as stated by the writers and written in the wiki - all for some personal beef you have about your beloved Templars.  No one here is disputing he is villain, no one here is disputing his role in the downfall of the Templar order, no one is excusing his behaviour as anything other than that of a misguided fool with intentions that he thought would benefit those left behind by the Chantry ('Fool' is the word Samson uses about himself).  He's a villain and a murderer - that actually is fact.

 

We're only now getting more information about him thanks to the release of the World of Thedas Volume 2.  It explains things - it doesn't excuse it, - so I am sitting here mouth agape with yet another assertion by you - that when the actual writer says 'many' you say 'no actually it it's few' many is 'a stretch'  SMH.

 

You don't like the way Jo writes Samson?  You'd have him a moustache twirler where everyone should hate him because 'Templar's rull!!!!!111'?  Your game, your headcanon, but please, it's headcanon not fact.

 

In addition to all of this, the timeline is all mussed up and unclear and I'm hoping to see more about that in WOT - especially when did they all start taking lyrium?  I can't find any information about it.

 

I'm grateful, finally, to see a layered portrayal of a villain, one who's not without Compassion (too often portrayed as a weakness) and I personally bristle when Cullen uses that word in judgement, who means well but is just really a F*ck up.  He's nuanced and I rather like that he is more than just his evil deeds.

 

EDIT: in regard to the Saint comment, I wasn't referring to you specifically but an observation on uber Pro-Templar supporters (I can say the same thing about uber Pro-Mage supporters too.)  It fits with the extremist viewpoints that either group can do no wrong.  That really isn't true now given what we've seen in game.

 

 

 Yes but people seem to like to draw long bows given just a skerrit of information.  That's fine, just don't insist that they're fact in the face that no, it's actually not (from the developers and writers), and I'm down with talking headcanon and ideas.  My own headcanons and ideas could easily be disproved by what the writers do with the characters, so far I haven't been disappointed, but you know what, I'm happy to acknowledge when I have it wrong, it should be fun to discuss this, not made to feel like utter crap by others for having contrary opinions, something this site and some of its users do so well.

 

This site really isn't worth it sometimes (although I still keep coming back)

Why are you trying to restart a discussion that was already dead for several days? Your attitude is childish and ridiculous.

I was adressing the things that you wrote arent true and now you want to start everything again? Why are you holding that grudge?

Your post was rude, you didnt need do mention me, I dont intend to discuss anymore as I stated days before, wherever I discussed here it was never personal like what are you doing.

And its not Ok for you to vent at me, what I posted here was targeted at a fictional character, never to any user like you did. The next time you want to vent, do it to you family or friends, I dont know you so never do it anymore.

Do me a favor and never again quote or mention me again, I shall do the same to you and put you on my ignore list.

[ModernAcademic]

I think my current avatar is an accurate description of how my face looks like every time I read an argument breakout in a BSN Forum thread.

[AresKeith]

More Samson in the Samson Thread:

 

 

 

[Source]

 

Every I see Samson's face like that I keep wanting to quote Mr. Mackey lol 

[Tigrae]

Every I see Samson's face like that I keep wanting to quote Mr. Mackey lol 

 

Every time I see his face I wanna pinch his cheeks, wrap him in a blanket, and pin a big 'you tried' gold star to his shirt, plop him down next to Loghain and Jowan on a very comfy couch, where they can drink hot cocoa and watch baby animal nature shows together.

[Tigrae]

Again, NOTHING, he did was forgivable.  Merely understandable.

 

I feel like this should be the subtitle for this thread.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Every time I see his face I wanna pinch his cheeks, wrap him in a blanket, and pin a big 'you tried' gold star to his shirt, plop him down next to Loghain and Jowan on a very comfy couch, where they can drink hot cocoa and watch baby animal nature shows together.

 

LOL, you're nicer than I am  I think I'd give them the hot cocoa and the comfy couch, but there's always Aveline standing off to the side, waiting with the "DON'T" sign in case they get more ideas for terrible life choices.  Looming ominously as only Aveline can.

[Bugsie]

Why are you trying to restart a discussion that was already dead for several days? Your attitude is childish and ridiculous.

I was adressing the things that you wrote arent true and now you want to start everything again? Why are you holding that grudge?

Your post was rude, you didnt need do mention me, I dont intend to discuss anymore as I stated days before, wherever I discussed here it was never personal like what are you doing.

And its not Ok for you to vent at me, what I posted here was targeted at a fictional character, never to any user like you did. The next time you want to vent, do it to you family or friends, I dont know you so never do it anymore.

Do me a favor and never again quote or mention me again, I shall do the same to you and put you on my ignore list.

Considering you are the one who came into this thread after I merely pondered on something after I re-read Paper and Steel because it was relevant to something earlier. You could have just ignored it, I wasn't baiting you if that's what you think.

 

You're the one who re-ignited the discussion.  You're the one who responded.  

 

Then you have the gall to insult me after I dare question your assertions not born out by facts given to us, and say I'm the one making it personal?  

 

Ignore me.  No fear, I won't be entertaining your special awesome insight any more.

[Bugsie]

(Apologies to everyone for all that - won't happen again I wouldn't have even mentioned the earlier post if I thought that would happen.)

 

More Samson in the Samson thread - Maddox and Samson by aihito on Deviantart (spoilered for size)

 

Spoiler

[Tigrae]

LOL, you're nicer than I am  I think I'd give them the hot cocoa and the comfy couch, but there's always Aveline standing off to the side, waiting with the "DON'T" sign in case they get more ideas for terrible life choices.  Looming ominously as only Aveline can.

Yes! I can't believe I was just going to leave them to their own devices.

They'd probably come up with the worst ideas for the simplest things like ordering a pizza. Jowan would resort to blood magic to convince the pizza guy they gave him a tip, that'd set Samson off chugging down 5-hour Energy until he rages and grabs Jowan by the ankles and spins him around the room,and Loghain would run off with the pizza once he realized there wasn't enough for everyone so he saves it all for himself.

Aveline. We always need Aveline.

[Archdemon_Urthemiel]

Considering you are the one who came into this thread after I merely pondered on something after I re-read Paper and Steel because it was relevant to something earlier. You could have just ignored it, I wasn't baiting you if that's what you think.

You're the one who re-ignited the discussion. You're the one who responded.

Then you have the gall to insult me after I dare question your assertions not born out by facts given to us, and say I'm the one making it personal?

Ignore me. No fear, I won't be entertaining your special awesome insight any more.

Just ignore boost. I think he's a troll who thinks everything he says is right without evidence and hen leaves when his trolling is brought up.

Why are the pro-Templars so fanatical and trollish?

[Lady Artifice]

Why are the pro-Templars so fanatical and trollish?

 

There are aggressive fanatics on both sides. 

[Sable Rhapsody]

Aveline. We always need Aveline.

 

If only Aveline had whacked my Hawke with the "DON'T" sign a few times.  She's a bit too forgiving of family.  But I think we can trust her to guard our poor sad numbskulls and hit them periodically 

 

There are aggressive fanatics on both sides. 

 

They take after the in-game fanatics!  Life imitates art...or something deep and profound like that 

[Bugsie]

I've been here long enough to live through the worst of trolls, but yeah fanatics on both sides. let's put them in a jar on the highest shelf and let them fight amongst themselves, just don't be tempted to shake the jar and question their rationale, it just makes them hella angry.

I miss Aveline.

I wonder if we'll get more Samson or Calpernia story in the future? I think I'd like that.

[ModernAcademic]

There are aggressive fanatics on both sides. 

I agree.

The moment people resort to pitchforks, they lose reason.

But worse than that, they lose respect. And respect is not something that can be earned back easily.

 

I stand on the side of healthy discussion. Listening to the many sides can be more productive than simply creating an artificial consensus. Especially when a group doesn't have all the facts.

 

Argument often breaks out when people in a group begin to mistake that consensus for the absolute truth. And when they feel threatened by a different opinion, resort to offend anyone who see matters in a different light. Some even feel entitled to defame them and distort the original meaning of their words. In other words, they start being dishonest. 

 

Like David Gaider said, a witch hunt; promoted by self-righteous people, who can't tolerate free speech.

 

 

But anyway...waiting eagerly for Calpernia's short story. I'm curious to know more about her background. And her VA did such a good job on her. I love her voice.

[Archdemon_Urthemiel]

This has never been more appropriate

https://m.youtube.co...h?v=PFkAAvDkj9k

[Tigrae]

I wonder if we'll get more Samson or Calpernia story in the future? I think I'd like that.

 

We've still got Calpernia's short story on the way, I can't wait to read that.

 

I'm still holding onto the hope that there's something in store for each of them, considering that neither one of them are dead by the time DA:I is complete. She's got slavery to end and a Tevinter to rebuild, and I think there's something to his Blight resistance that might factor in to the HoF looking for the end of the Calling or... something. Something's there. It was important enough to catch Corypheus' eye.

[Archdemon_Urthemiel]

We've still got Calpernia's short story on the way, I can't wait to read that.

I'm still holding onto the hope that there's something in store for each of them, considering that neither one of them are dead by the time DA:I is complete. She's got slavery to end and a Tevinter to rebuild, and I think there's something to his Blight resistance that might factor in to the HoF looking for the end of the Calling or... something. Something's there. It was important enough to catch Corypheus' eye.

Doesn't calpernia die regardless of whether you spared her if you went Templars?

[Tigrae]

Doesn't calpernia die regardless of whether you spared her if you went Templars?

 

It's never explicitly stated that she's dead.

 

If you pick up her mages, it's only said that she's failed as the vessel but Samson remains.

 

If you pick up the Templars and fight her at the Well, she jumps off the waterfall (with or without a fight) but it's never said that she's dead. We can assume she's dead, but I also assumed Leliana was dead after the Warden killed her at the Temple of Sacred Ashes yet she's now the Inquisitor's Spymaster.

[Eliantariel]

That would have been the practical approach, yes.  But Meredith is intensely paranoid of magic as a character trait, independent of the effect of the lyrium idol.  So while it's a bad idea, it's in keeping with her character.  She's not the type to forgive disloyalty in her templars, nor does she understand the root of Samson's compassion toward mages.

 

This. I think Samson just had bad luck with having Meredith as Knight Commander. I don't know if the Kirkwall Circle was the worst, but I guess the punishment would have been less in other circles.

 

Meredith just hates mages beyond reason and I guess she made an example of Samson so other Templars would be scared to show compassion towards the mages.

[Eliantariel]

Just thinking about that posters earlier assumption about Samson apparently being pretty much solely responsible for the destruction of the Templars.  Then after re-reading Jo's story coming across this passage:

 

 

 

 

I love it when people make the Templar Order to be so full of saints - when this is clearly not the case.  SO... many others took the red willingly too... changes things a bit I'd say.

 

Also I'd like to know more about Samson's motivations for helping mages.  Within the circle - it's suggested he sometimes did it for extra lyrium, but surely out of the order there must have been less risky ways to make money than helping apostates?  What motivated him there?

 

I think we really need more information here, especially regarding the timeline when the templars started to take red lyrium. I think I read that a Hawke who was Viscount was threatened by red templars and that (at least I understand it that way) Cullen was still there. So it seems Templars started to take red lyrium while Cullen was still in Kirkwall, but it seems Samson took it only after Cullen left. I don't understand why the other templars like Samson stayed behind without control/lyrium and did not accompany Cullen or joined Seeker Lucius.

 

So while Samson helped spreading red lyrium by giving it to other Templars it seems he wasn't the one starting it. In my opinion we would have the same situation with or without Samson - we would still see red Templars and Corypheus taking control over them. 

 

While this does not excuse what Samson did, I love that he isn't a black/white villain. And honestly, in my current playthrough I often gave person second chances to do something good with their life. I even let Calpernia go to reform Tevinter. While Erimond is beyond helping I always keep Samson alive and not as a prisoner because that seems so wasted. I normally assign him to Cullen because I thought having Dagna perform experiments on him sounds bad - but Dagna is a kind person and it could really help finding a cure for red lyrium so I guess I will go with this decision from now on. Red lyrium is spreading in the world and if the inquisition does not find a way to destroy it the blight will take everything. So this must be a high priority for the inquisition. 

 

I really wish we could speak more with Samson and not only when he is a prisoner - I don't want to make him a prisoner just to be able to talk to him.

 

Concerning his motivation for helping mages: while he got payed for it (at least sometimes) I do think it is out of compassion for the mages and their bad situation in the Kirkwall circle - I doubt he knew that he and Maddox would be so severly punished but that he kept helping them shows me that it is truly out of compassion (of course money or lyrium is a reason too) because Meredith could still punish him for helping mages by throwing him in prison or something else. 

 

Sorry, got longer than expected, just so many thoughts and questions... you know how it is

[thesuperdarkone2]

I think we really need more information here, especially regarding the timeline when the templars started to take red lyrium. I think I read that a Hawke who was Viscount was threatened by red templars and that (at least I understand it that way) Cullen was still there. So it seems Templars started to take red lyrium while Cullen was still in Kirkwall, but it seems Samson took it only after Cullen left. I don't understand why the other templars like Samson stayed behind without control/lyrium and did not accompany Cullen or joined Seeker Lucius.

 

So while Samson helped spreading red lyrium by giving it to other Templars it seems he wasn't the one starting it. In my opinion we would have the same situation with or without Samson - we would still see red Templars and Corypheus taking control over them. 

 

While this does not excuse what Samson did, I love that he isn't a black/white villain. And honestly, in my current playthrough I often gave person second chances to do something good with their life. I even let Calpernia go to reform Tevinter. While Erimond is beyond helping I always keep Samson alive and not as a prisoner because that seems so wasted. I normally assign him to Cullen because I thought having Dagna perform experiments on him sounds bad - but Dagna is a kind person and it could really help finding a cure for red lyrium so I guess I will go with this decision from now on. Red lyrium is spreading in the world and if the inquisition does not find a way to destroy it the blight will take everything. So this must be a high priority for the inquisition. 

 

I really wish we could speak more with Samson and not only when he is a prisoner - I don't want to make him a prisoner just to be able to talk to him.

 

Concerning his motivation for helping mages: while he got payed for it (at least sometimes) I do think it is out of compassion for the mages and their bad situation in the Kirkwall circle - I doubt he knew that he and Maddox would be so severly punished but that he kept helping them shows me that it is truly out of compassion (of course money or lyrium is a reason too) because Meredith could still punish him for helping mages by throwing him in prison or something else. 

 

Sorry, got longer than expected, just so many thoughts and questions... you know how it is

I think people seem to forget that if you let Calpernia go, her keep tile and her own dialogue outright say that she's going to confront Corypheus and if she survives, she'll return to Tevinter. Does Cory really seem the type to forgive his lackeys turning against him?

 

Also, the short story changed my view of red templars. Before, I thought they were seriously stupid and corrupt to help someone which goes against everything their order stood for, but now I feel kind of sorry for them seeing as how they turned into red templars because they hate the chantry. Makes their choice a bit more understandable.

[Tigrae]

This. I think Samson just had bad luck with having Meredith as Knight Commander. I don't know if the Kirkwall Circle was the worst, but I guess the punishment would have been less in other circles.

 

Meredith just hates mages beyond reason and I guess she made an example of Samson so other Templars would be scared to show compassion towards the mages.

 

I like to imagine Knight-Commander Guylain being more temperate, maybe more like Knight-Commander Greagoir, and obviously fond of Samson if one of Samson's fondest memories is being given his sun shield by Guylain personally. I'm sure Samson and all the other moderate/liberal Templars collectively shook their heads at the idea of Meredith becoming Knight-Commander.

 

Another thing to keep in mind with regards to Meredith is that she lived through the previous Viscount lynching Guylain. The Viscount attempted a coup to wrest control of the city away from the Templars, and Meredith isn't a woman of half-measures. By coming down so hard on Samson and Maddox, she shows that she will not tolerate mage fraternization OR divisive letter couriering that, for all she knew, could potentially lead to another rebellion.

 

I don't want it to sound like I don't agree with your viewpoint that Meredith is terrified of uncontrolled magic and uncontrolled mages, because all of that's true - I just wanted to point out other reasons for her paranoia that all compound into who she is as a character. 

[Tigrae]

I really wish we could speak more with Samson and not only when he is a prisoner - I don't want to make him a prisoner just to be able to talk to him.

 

Concerning his motivation for helping mages: while he got payed for it (at least sometimes) I do think it is out of compassion for the mages and their bad situation in the Kirkwall circle - I doubt he knew that he and Maddox would be so severly punished but that he kept helping them shows me that it is truly out of compassion (of course money or lyrium is a reason too) because Meredith could still punish him for helping mages by throwing him in prison or something else. 

 

Sorry, got longer than expected, just so many thoughts and questions... you know how it is

 

I'm forever bummed that the only way you can talk with Samson post-judgement is if you put him in prison. He could easily have the same dialogue options standing in the Undercroft with Dagna, or in Cullen's office if you had him over to Cullen. The dialogue offers some more insight into his personality that I think more people should see.

 

He's not a raving, rabid, cursing fiend - he'll talk to the Inquisitor very calmly, he expresses his regret for listening to Corypheus, he even chuckles about Cullen, and gives you insight into the man-made god you're battling against. I think it's important for people to see that side, to see how he's basically given up. He has nothing left, he has no reason to be angry or spiteful because he has nothing left to be angry or spiteful about. This is where the templar order is at by the end of the game; they have nothing, Samson has nothing. They tried to make a stand and it leads nowhere.

 

About shuffling magelings around: he always got paid, he had to. There's a bit of dialogue where he states if he didn't get paid, they'd all be after charity and he's not in a position to offer any charity. I think he has a pretty strong moral compass that doesn't align with the lawfully moral compass the Chantry uses, although we see that he reaches the end of his rope when it comes to blood magic - which is the reason he turns on the Mage/Templar rebellion.

 

Also: you don't need to apologize for wanting to talk about all of this stuff, it's the reason we're all here!

[Eliantariel]

I think people seem to forget that if you let Calpernia go, her keep tile and her own dialogue outright say that she's going to confront Corypheus and if she survives, she'll return to Tevinter. Does Cory really seem the type to forgive his lackeys turning against him?

 

Also, the short story changed my view of red templars. Before, I thought they were seriously stupid and corrupt to help someone which goes against everything their order stood for, but now I feel kind of sorry for them seeing as how they turned into red templars because they hate the chantry. Makes their choice a bit more understandable.

 

I remember that Calpernia said this and I guess she did not lie. Doesn't mean she is going to fight until her end so maybe she is still alive. With Samson we do not have the option to turn him against Corypheus like we can do with Calpernia - but that only is because she feels betrayed by him. But there is nothing comparable for Samson - Corypheus did not betray him. Samson and his templars are on a suicide run while Calpernia has plans for the future. 

 

I do think that Samson can come to his mind while staying at the Inquisition and maybe regain even trust in the inquisition or the inquisitor.

 

While I understand their hate and fighting against the chantry I would really like to know how they felt while turning civilians into red lyrium and if some red templars maybe refused to do this to others. Even if they hate the chantry there are people who have nothing to do with the decisions of the chantry and not all people in the chantry are in a position to make decisions. 

[DirkJake]

I'm forever bummed that the only way you can talk with Samson post-judgement is if you put him in prison. He could easily have the same dialogue options standing in the Undercroft with Dagna, or in Cullen's office if you had him over to Cullen. The dialogue offers some more insight into his personality that I think more people should see.

 

 

Me too. I find both Samson and Calpernia to be very interesting characters (ones of the best DA characters, imo). I wish Bioware had included more interaction with them.