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[Rannah]

Is there maybe any hint in the game/novels/comics that how much they really know before they take the Vigil?

[leaguer of one]

It really isn't.

They are made aware of the service the order requires long before they take the vigil.

Nope. Replay da2 with the quest about the Templer recruits. They are clueless.

[Rannah]

Nope. Replay da2 with the quest about the Templer recruits. They are clueless.

 

I noticed that, too. Anyway, before the Vigil I think recruits know far less about the whole thing than they should in order to make a well-established decision. I doubt the Order would propagate that people can go mad or die because of the lyrium they are obliged to take as templars.

[Tigrae]

It's probably very similar to the Grey Warden joining - they don't let it be known that you'll probably die if you try it, or that the taint in your blood will eventually drive you crazy, and the "sacrifice" that everyone in Thedas romanticizes could very well be you dying in the Deep Roads because on the off chance a Blight starts during your lifetime, you may actually need to sacrifice yourself to kill it.

 

Become a Templar! Protect mages from themselves! Protect people from mages! Be a good, well-respected person and help keep order in the world! I could see this being alluring to people, while they leave off "btw you're gonna become addicted to this substance and it might rot your brain out, and you'll never be able to leave because you can't get this substance anywhere else except from us."

 

I'm glad this thread exists; I just finished my first playthrough siding with the mages and got to interact with Samson. I was kind of disappointed how Cullen expressed doubt in condemning Blackwall but just gave up on Samson (using his words for both of them that they had "betrayed their men"). Did one side with Corypheus, while the other sided with the Inquisition? Yep - but that could have so easily been you, Cullen, so easily. What if Cassandra had approached Samson instead of you, thinking that the Inquisition might need a more moderate Templar to deal with any mages they picked up? What if this magical change of mind you had about mages never happened and you just slid down the same slope that Meredith did, after the Chantry explosion? Maybe it's too difficult for him to think about.

 

I'm a sucker for sob-stories and broken people so obviously I think this Samson guy is the bees knees. 

[Boost32]

It's probably very similar to the Grey Warden joining - they don't let it be known that you'll probably die if you try it, or that the taint in your blood will eventually drive you crazy, and the "sacrifice" that everyone in Thedas romanticizes could very well be you dying in the Deep Roads because on the off chance a Blight starts during your lifetime, you may actually need to sacrifice yourself to kill it.
 
Become a Templar! Protect mages from themselves! Protect people from mages! Be a good, well-respected person and help keep order in the world! I could see this being alluring to people, while they leave off "btw you're gonna become addicted to this substance and it might rot your brain out, and you'll never be able to leave because you can't get this substance anywhere else except from us."
 
I'm glad this thread exists; I just finished my first playthrough siding with the mages and got to interact with Samson. I was kind of disappointed how Cullen expressed doubt in condemning Blackwall but just gave up on Samson (using his words for both of them that they had "betrayed their men"). Did one side with Corypheus, while the other sided with the Inquisition? Yep - but that could have so easily been you, Cullen, so easily. What if Cassandra had approached Samson instead of you, thinking that the Inquisition might need a more moderate Templar to deal with any mages they picked up? What if this magical change of mind you had about mages never happened and you just slid down the same slope that Meredith did, after the Chantry explosion? Maybe it's too difficult for him to think about.
 
I'm a sucker for sob-stories and broken people so obviously I think this Samson guy is the bees knees.

Well, Cullen away the Commander of the Kirkwall templars when they started using red lyrium, so he is not innocent.

[Obadiah]

Didn't Alistair, a Templar recruit that did not go on the vigil, know about the Lyrium addiction of Templars?

[leaguer of one]

Well, Cullen away the Commander of the Kirkwall templars when they started using red lyrium, so he is not innocent.

He had nothing to do with the red lyrium used. He just saw his commander go crazy form it and ordered his men not to touch it.

[leaguer of one]

Didn't Alistair, a Templar recruit that did not go on the vigil, know about the Lyrium addiction of Templars?

No one is say they don't know about the addiction. Just how bad it can get. Hearing about it is one thing, seeing it is a whole different thing. We've known about lyrium addiction form dao, we've never seen how bad it gets till dai.

[Boost32]

He had nothing to do with the red lyrium used. He just saw his commander go crazy form it and ordered his men not to touch it.

After Meredith was turned into a red lyrium statue, he was promoted to Knight Commander, the templars in Kirkwall started using red lyrium and he did nothing, if Hawke sides with the templars they started threatening him and he fled Kirkwall while Cullen did nothing.

[leaguer of one]

After Meredith was turned into a red lyrium statue, he was promoted to Knight Commander, the templars in Kirkwall started using red lyrium and he did nothing, if Hawke sides with the templars they started threatening him and he fled Kirkwall while Cullen did nothing.

And nothing said he commanded us of it.

[Boost32]

And nothing said he commanded us of it.

No, but he was their leader, he was responsible for their actions, he not knowing dont absolve him , even Hawke knew about the red lyrium, how he couldnt?

[Tigrae]

Well, Cullen away the Commander of the Kirkwall templars when they started using red lyrium, so he is not innocent.

 

I need to learn more about the timeline of the events after DA2 and into DA:I. I'm sure he's not innocent, no one is in Thedas. I was just disappointed that he wrote off Samson off so easily and angrily (at least with my dialogue choices). I suppose he's a kind of black and white person, though.

 

Cullen had sympathy for Blackwall, who, I suppose, was trying to be a better man, but no sympathy for Samson who was trying to make anything out of his empty life and the lives of the other templars he commanded.

 

There was no winner when the Nevarran Accord was abandoned; the mages are now on their own, and the templars now have no purpose and no way to get the lyrium they need. I saved the Wardens even though they made stupid decisions because they were scared, and I could extend the same thinking to the Templars.

[leaguer of one]

No, but he was their leader, he was responsible for their actions, he not knowing dont absolve him , even Hawke knew about the red lyrium, how he couldnt?

Please. We are not working that angle. The order there was a mess and he just started cleaning things up. He can instantly have order or control everything. That's like seeing a mess in the room and blaming the janitor that just clocked in for it when it was not his shift.

[Tigrae]

More Samson in the Samson thread:

 

 

[source]

[Boost32]

I need to learn more about the timeline of the events after DA2 and into DA:I. I'm sure he's not innocent, no one is in Thedas.

The Timeline is like this.
After the death of Meredith, Cullen rallies the remaining templars of Kirkwall and bring stability to the city, because of this he was promoted to Knight-Commander.
Events of the book Asunder starts to happen. Mages rebel and because of this Lord Seeker Lambert summoned all Knight-Commander sto convince them to leave the Chantry and hunt the mages, they all agreed (since Cullen was a Knight-Commander at time, he had to be there).
Cole kills Lord Seeker Lambert, the Seekers appoint Lucius as their new leader. When he discovered the truth about his order, he bacame desiluded, he found Corypheus in some way and let the Envy Demon take his place.
The Templars in Kirkwall started to use red lyrium, its made them paranoid and if Hawkes sides with them in DA2 they started threatening him/her. Hawke fled before they could act against him/her.
The events of The Masked Empire happens.
Cassandra arrived at Kirkwall after Hawke, she interrogates Varric and recruit Cullen into the Inqusition.
The conclave is made, Corypheus happens and Inquisition is started.

[Boost32]

Please. We are not working that angle. The order there was a mess and he just started cleaning things up. He can instantly have order or control everything. That's like seeing a mess in the room and blaming the janitor that just clocked in for it when it was not his shift.

They started threatening the head of state, they werent threatening a nobody, even Hawke, someone outside the Order, knew about the red lyrium. He had 3 years to do something about it, he wasnt just starting.

[Ashagar]

One of the things that is unclear in the timeline, is when the envy demon replaced the lord seeker. It couldn't have been before the Templar leadership left for the conclave otherwise they would have spotted the envy demon, its why the knight-vigilant was murdered after he survived the conclave because he would have seen the fake lord seeker for the demon it was.

 

Also its unknown when Samson started to with Corypheus to subvert the order from within.

[leaguer of one]

They started threatening the head of state, they werent threatening a nobody, even Hawke, someone outside the Order, knew about the red lyrium. He had 3 years to do something about it, he wasnt just starting.

Note: 3 year with an order in total chaos and a city in a mess. Sorry but the janitor that just clocked analogy sticks. Seriously, with mess everything was in kirkwall you being way too hard. He has to organize things and clean thing up first before he can have any form of order and Kirkwall is still a mess in dai.

[Boost32]

One of the things that is unclear in the timeline, is when the envy demon replaced the lord seeker. It couldn't have been before the Templar leadership left for the conclave otherwise they would have spotted the envy demon, its why the knight-vigilant was murdered after he survived the conclave because he would have seen the fake lord seeker for the demon it was.

I think he was murdered because he knew about the red lyrium, its clear that the leaders of the templars knew about its effect. The ones who would not agree were sent to the Conclave to die, since he survived, he was a threath to their plan to corrupt the other templars.

Also its unknown when Samson started to with Corypheus to subvert the order from within.

The first red templars came from Kirkwall, so i think he was one of the first to use red lyrium, even the plan to corrupt the templars in Therinfal was made by Samson.

[Boost32]

Note: 3 year with an order in total chaos and a city in a mess. Sorry but the janitor that just clocked analogy sticks. Seriously, with mess everything was in kirkwall you being way too hard. He has to organize things and clean thing up first before he can have any form of order and Kirkwall is still a mess in dai.

Please tell me how Hawke (if made Viscount ofc), semeone who had to deal with the mess in Kirkwall and was not a member of the templars knew about the red lyrium and Cullen, who had only to take care of the templars, didnt know?

[leaguer of one]

Please tell me how Hawke (if made Viscount ofc), semeone who had to deal with the mess in Kirkwall and was not a member of the templars knew about the red lyrium and Cullen, who had only to take care of the templars, didnt know?

You mean the fact that he would not know who attacked him after he killed them himself? This is Hawke we are talking about. He get jumped all the time. He he was attacked by the crazy ones , checked the bodies of the templers he kill, and found the red lyrium on them.

[TheLastArchivist]

 

source

[TheLastArchivist]

I wrote a fic about Samson's time as Templar in Kirkwall, I'll just leave that here

 

A Templar's Tale

 

I'm reading this fic on FF net. Simply loving it. 

I even left a commentary in chapter 3, if I remember correctly. 

[Xilizhra]

Well, Samson did what Anders couldn't: root and branch, he destroyed the Templar Order. So I would very much agree that he's the templar that Thedas deserves.

[Boost32]

You mean the fact that he would not know who attacked him after he killed them himself? This is Hawke we are talking about. He get jumped all the time. He he was attacked by the crazy ones , checked the bodies of the templers he kill, and found the red lyrium on them.

Hawke wasnt attacked, he/she left before they could do anything against him/her.