47 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

The Archdemon is an Old God corrupted. They keyword here is "god". In theory, that should make it along with Flemeth the most powerful enemies in the game.

And yet, it is from the The Nightmare that our party is forced to run.

[xJLxKing]

Your party is not the same party that fought the Archdemon

Keep in mind also, your party are not on some holy quest to kill this demon. It's also possible that your team is not strong enough Story

[Koneko Koji]

Also, the Nightmare demon is on its own turf - we're repeatedly told (especially by the Command Spirit) that the Fade is manipulated by them at their will - and that people, even in dreams, have very little control over the Fade.

I don't doubt with enough time and effort the Inquisitor and their team COULD defeat the demon, but they needed to get back out of the Fade to Adamant - if they'd stayed and fought, the Nightmare could have twisted the Fade and moved them anywhere, stranding them from the fight and their forces - they had to get out, which meant distracting the beast and sealing the rift so it couldn't manifest behind them and their exhausted troops.

[Ranadiel Marius]

Further the red lyrium dragon is not a true archdemon. It just resembles one. It lacks an old god's soul (subbing Cory's instead) and does not trigger a blight.

[Arvaarad]

The Archdemon is an Old God corrupted. They keyword here is "god". In theory, that should make it along with Flemeth the most powerful enemies in the game.
And yet, it is from the The Nightmare that our party is forced to run from.

If you're talking about Corypheus' dragon, it's a corrupted high dragon, not an archdemon.

Plus, the demon manipulates fear. Even if it is possible to defeat it, it probably can make people think it's impossible.

[MisterJB]

I'm referring to the real deal, Urthemiel.
 

[Ranadiel Marius]

I'm referring to the real deal, Urthemiel.

Complete different groups with completely different goals then. The HoF is there solely to kill the archdemon, while the Inq is in the Fade simply as a means to avoid dying and has nothing to gain from fighting Nightmare at that time since closing the portal once he gets through will accomplish his goals.

[Eliastion]

I'd say Nightmare in his own domain IS more powerful than Archdemon. It sits in Fade, in part of it that belongs to him and - it being fade - "belonging" to certain spirit or demon is pretty close to actually being a part of it.

Archdemon, on the other hand, just as any other physical creature, is limited by material world's static nature, making it at the very least subject to the same set of rules, minus that little immortality-by-body-hopping cheat   Nightmare - in his realm - isn't on equal footing with invaders, as he can most likely do some REALLY nasty things about the rules themselves...

[xJLxKing]

The nightmare rules his realm he however is not omnipotent in it, this was never implied for any spirit or demon

[leaguer of one]

Your party is not the same party that fought the Archdemon

Keep in mind also, your party are not on some holy quest to kill this demon. It's also possible that your team is not strong enough Story

Your party is made of the inquistor who has powers stronger then the warden and Hawke. Hawke. Possible one of the companions of the warden. A Seeker who took on dragons.A qunari who took on dragons. Hawke bestfriend who fought by his side. A Knight enchanter. One of the best mages of tevintor. A Spirit who senses the best place to  stab some one to kill them. The best archer in all of the series. A chevile. And the dread wolf himself.

 

You party may not be the party the warden had but your party in dai is better in power and skill then the party in dao.

[xJLxKing]

Can you tell me some combat fears that the Inquisitor has using this mighty power?
Seeker and bull took on dragons in an unspecified condition and scenario. I guess my Dog from Origins can claim he took on the Archdemon
Lol at the cole reference
Dread wolf who has lied to you about his identity and everything about him, k

[Emperor Iaius I]

The HoF needed a lot of support to take on a wounded archdemon, even discounting the flunkies that are fighting the darkspawn. Also, it needed to be beaten. There was no reason to take risks fighting the nightmare when it wasn't the threat that needed to be stopped.

Moreover, the archdemon looks so much cooler

[TEWR]

The Fear Demon is old, possibly older then Urthemiel, and it's been able to grow fat off of the fears it's consumed and thus extremely powerful. That big bloated monstrosity might just be another aspect of it, and not even the real thing. It's also in its home turf, which grants it a lot more power. Remember, Demons are at their most powerful when they're in the Fade.

 

Urthemiel is an Old God who is twisted by the Blight, which means his mind is broken. Ravaged and unable to think as clearly as he could've otherwise. He was also wounded, and even then it took a great host of forces (or ballistae spamming) to bring the thing down.

 

Also, as was mentioned the priority was less about killing the demon and more about getting back to Adamant, where the Inquisition and Wardens are struggling against the Demon Army that was summoned. With time and planning I bet we could've killed it, but that wasn't the moment to do it.

[xJLxKing]

The Fear Demon is old, possibly older then Urthemiel, and it's been able to grow fat off of the fears it's consumed and thus extremely powerful. That big bloated monstrosity might just be another aspect of it, and not even the real thing. It's also in its home turf, which grants it a lot more power. Remember, Demons are at their most powerful when they're in the Fade.

 

Urthemiel is an Old God who is twisted by the Blight, which means his mind is broken. Ravaged and unable to think as clearly as he could've otherwise. He was also wounded, and even then it took a great host of forces (or ballistae spamming) to bring the thing down.

 

Also, as was mentioned the priority was less about killing the demon and more about getting back to Adamant, where the Inquisition and Wardens are struggling against the Demon Army that was summoned. With time and planning I bet we could've killed it, but that wasn't the moment to do it.

No

Urthemiel or any Old God does not have their mind blighted. Remember, they are the ones who are leading an entire Hive Mind, leading an entire army against the entire surface world. If it was twisted and broken, it clearly wouldn't make good decision or any; it would be mindless

We fought the aspect of the nightmare, there is no mention of another, it's confirmed that that big spider is the Fear Demon.

[thats1evildude]

The Archdemon is hardly at the peak of power levels in the DA setting. Take away the darkspawn horde and its ability to be reborn in a new Blighted vessel and the Archdemon is just another high dragon, albeit a corrupted one. And Urthemiel wasn't even the greatest of the Old Gods. He was the Dragon of Beauty - a patron of the arts.

 

There are other creatures born of mortal means that are physically stronger than Archdemons, like the Harvester.

[Heimdall]

The Archdemon is hardly at the peak of power levels in the DA setting. Take away the darkspawn horde and its ability to be reborn in a new Blighted vessel and the Archdemon is just another high dragon, albeit a corrupted one. And Urthemiel wasn't even the greatest of the Old Gods. He was the Dragon of Beauty - a patron of the arts.
 
There are other creatures born of mortal means that are physically stronger than Archdemons, like the Harvester.

Harvester stronger than the Archdemon? Dubious. The Warden killed a Harvester with two dwarves and a Bronto. A CRIPPLED Archdemon still required the Warden to draw on reinforcements from their army.

[Ashagar]

No

Urthemiel or any Old God does not have their mind blighted. Remember, they are the ones who are leading an entire Hive Mind, leading an entire army against the entire surface world. If it was twisted and broken, it clearly wouldn't make good decision or any; it would be mindless

We fought the aspect of the nightmare, there is no mention of another, it's confirmed that that big spider is the Fear Demon.

 

Yes the giant spider is the nightmare because that is what hawk and the inquisitor sees it as because of their fear of spiders while your companions like with the fearlings see something else completely and given Cassandra's description of the fearlings that wouldn't be out of place in lovecraft I am not sure I want to know what she saw the nightmare as.

[xJLxKing]

Arch Demons ARE NOT High Dragons.

 

It's not just their immortality, or their ability to command the Darkspawn. Their attacks are different. Didn't one attack by a Arch Demon was something that was both Fade and physical in nature?

 

My point being, an Archdemon is a God whose form is a High Dragon 

[Undead Han]

I'm glad that there is a character in the game that the Inquisitor can't defeat. We need more of those characters in the DA universe.

 

The player character shouldn't feel like a god, unless their actual backsory is that they are a god. The Inquisitor, no matter how powerful a warrior or mage, is still just a mortal. He/She should pale in comparison to a creature whose power has been fed for centuries on the collective fears of an entire continent, particularly considering the confrontation occurs on that demon's home turf.

[MACharlie1]

The threat of an archdemon is not just it being a really powerful Dragon. It's that it has a huge army marching for it and keeps being reborn after killing it the conventional way with regular soldiers.

And much like a Reaper, the blight itself corrupts and bolsters its forces.

[TEWR]

No

Urthemiel or any Old God does not have their mind blighted. Remember, they are the ones who are leading an entire Hive Mind, leading an entire army against the entire surface world. If it was twisted and broken, it clearly wouldn't make good decision or any; it would be mindless

We fought the aspect of the nightmare, there is no mention of another, it's confirmed that that big spider is the Fear Demon.

 

Even beings tainted by the Blight can make decisions. Nowhere did I state that it wasn't a threat or that it couldn't do anything, but the Blight is not just going to not affect its mind. It's repeatedly told, in-game, that the Archdemon is twisted by the corruption. Zathrian, Morrigan, etc. 

 

Even the codex on the Archdemon says as much.

 

Is it capable of leading the army of Darkspawn? Yes, I never said it wasn't. Is it capable of being a threat that can make decisions for its army and give out orders? Also yes, I never said it couldn't. What I did say was that its mind is twisted by the corruption and that it can't think as clearly as it could've otherwise.

 

Where was it confirmed the big spider thing was the Fear Demon itself and not merely an aspect? Was this by the devs? If so, you can hardly blame me for not knowing that much and suspecting it was just another aspect.

[Eliastion]

No

Urthemiel or any Old God does not have their mind blighted. Remember, they are the ones who are leading an entire Hive Mind, leading an entire army against the entire surface world. If it was twisted and broken, it clearly wouldn't make good decision or any(...)

Urthemiel employs little strategy or tactics, he is not mindless bu kinda dumb - yeah. His most brilliant move was going straight for Denerim rather than seeking out Warden's army.

If Old Gods were actually thinking clearly, the Blight as a military campaign would be prepared much better. A couple blighted dragons would be nice and with efforts consciously directed it seems pretty plausible that they could dig out another Old God. Imagine Corypheus but with actual Archdemon-level control of Darkspawn.

[SmilesJA]

Urthemiel employs little strategy or tactics, he is not mindless bu kinda dumb - yeah. His most brilliant move was going straight for Denerim rather than seeking out Warden's army.

If Old Gods were actually thinking clearly, the Blight as a military campaign would be prepared much better. A couple blighted dragons would be nice and with efforts consciously directed it seems pretty plausible that they could dig out another Old God. Imagine Corypheus but with actual Archdemon-level control of Darkspawn.

 

Well the Darkspawn gotta get a foothold on Ferelden first before going after the Wardens.

[MisterJB]

I'm glad that there is a character in the game that the Inquisitor can't defeat. We need more of those characters in the DA universe.

 

The player character shouldn't feel like a god, unless their actual backsory is that they are a god. The Inquisitor, no matter how powerful a warrior or mage, is still just a mortal. He/She should pale in comparison to a creature whose power has been fed for centuries on the collective fears of an entire continent, particularly considering the confrontation occurs on that demon's home turf.

 

Not arguing that. Just trying to understand the hierarchy of power.

For instance, Hawke and the Inquisitor both kill a Forbidden One but then, when together, they are still forced to run from The Nightmare.
 

[JadeDragon]

Im sure if we fought a forbidden one in the fade physically they would be at least twice as strong.