273 réponses à ce sujet

[Mcfly616]

 

But if the franchise stays withing the Milky Way it will have to actively avoid going to any location from previous 3 games, as each could be influenced by the endings in significant way (green people/plants being the most obvious problem). If we're not gonna see any place we've seen in previous games, then it will feel like completly different galaxy anyway lol. May as well actually move to a different galaxy

 It won't have to avoid places we've already been. The ME3 endings certainly don't prevent us from revisiting familiar locations. Not to mention we don't even know if it's going to take place after ME3 anyways.

[Iakus]

Yes but how is a reboot or an AU different? Just as much throwing up their hands and escaping from ME3 ending issues if not more. At least the ark solution doesn't throw out continuity completly, same as Star Trek 2009 allows them to do whatever they want while keeping the old stuff fully canon.

 

A reboot or AU isn't trying to have its cake and eat it too.  It';s not pretending to be a continuation of a story that's grown to divergent to do justice.

 

 

But if the franchise stays withing the Milky Way it will have to actively avoid going to any location from previous 3 games, as each could be influenced by the endings in significant way (green people/plants being the most obvious problem). If we're not gonna see any place we've seen in previous games, then it will feel like completly different galaxy anyway lol. May as well actually move to a different galaxy

 

Which is why I'm pretty sure Mass Effect was not originally intended to be continued past ME3.  I suspect EA made the declaration "milk it" and Bioware now has to figure ot a way to do that.

[shepskisaac]

Not necessarily. We can still be able to visit major population centers of ME races without having to address the endings. Just have a region of Milky Way locked away from the trilogy places by a damaged key relay. The wave doesn't get there and you can't visit the places from the trilogy. We can still see the salarians, krogan, turians etc. New galaxy would not allow it.

How would there be major population centers of ME races in these places if they were locked away from rest of the galaxy via broken relays in the first place? Or did the relays 'conviniently' broke right before the Crucibe wave? Its asspulls territory again, there's no "easy" way to deal with the endings. And that is assuming that there's even a single spot in Milky Way unaffected by the Crucible wave. If we take the ending cinematics as evidence, then clearly the entire galaxy is 'touched' by the crucible wave

 

 It won't have to avoid places we've already been. The ME3 endings certainly don't prevent us from revisiting familiar locations.

They do, on the developement-resources level. Do you think they will make multiple versions of Tuchanka to reflect the magnitude of ME3 choices regarding the Krogan? Or Rannoch? Or that they will have gigantic peace-loving Reapers in some scenarios but not in others? Everyone glowing green (including plants) or NOT glowing green? Shouldn't Synthesis affect gameplay/biotics on a deep level in case everyone is now part synthetic? There's no escaping ME3 endings if you're gonna visit old locations.

[Vazgen]

How would there be major population centers of ME races in these places if they were locked away from rest of the galaxy via broken relays in the first place? Or did the relays 'conviniently' broke right before the Crucibe wave? Its asspulls territory again, there's no "easy" way to deal with the endings. And that is assuming that there's even a single spot in Milky Way unaffected by the Crucible wave. If we take the ending cinematics as evidence, then clearly the entire galaxy is 'touched' by the crucible wave

It's not an easy way, sure. But it's a way. The cinematics actually show only half the galaxy engulfed in Crucible wave (from there we extrapolate it to the whole galaxy), and I believe I discussed it before, that there can easily be places unaffected by the wave. 

The relay could've been deliberately damaged to buy time. 

Anyway, it is more appealing to me than intergalactic travel and development of the same civilizations in an entirely new galaxy.

[shepskisaac]

A reboot or AU isn't trying to have its cake and eat it too.  It';s not pretending to be a continuation of a story that's grown to divergent to do justice.

Perhaps, but it depends how you look at it I guess. I don't really see a reboot/AU as an artistically superior excuse to extending the life/profits of a particular franchise. I gues I would rather have them attempt to have the cake and eat it than just "reboot! done! endings issues solves". I don't think Star Trek did wrong keeping the cake and eating it, or at least I don't really see why would actual 100% Star Trek reboot be better than the time travel "cake" they did.

 

Which is why I'm pretty sure Mass Effect was not originally intended to be continued past ME3.  I suspect EA made the declaration "milk it" and Bioware now has to figure ot a way to do that.

 Either that or they thought they would be fine doing prequels/sidequels. But after ME3 came out it was clear it's not what the fans wanna see
 

Anyway, it is more appealing to me than intergalactic travel and development of the same civilizations in an entirely new galaxy.

I get that, but in the same way it feels off how the original Star Wars trilogy actively avoids showing Coruscant, the capitol of the galaxy, it would feel off if the new Mass Effect trilogy was actively avoiding Citadel or major hubs of important races.

[Vazgen]

I get that, but in the same way it feels off how the original Star Wars trilogy actively avoids showing Coruscant, the capitol of the galaxy, it would feel off if the new Mass Effect trilogy was actively avoiding Citadel or major hubs of important races.

There was a tweet that implied the Citadel not being in the next game. Something about it trying to get in. It's in the twitter thread but I don't think I can find it. Too much time has passed

[Mcfly616]

 

 

They do, on the developement-resources level. Do you think they will make multiple versions of Tuchanka to reflect the magnitude of ME3 choices regarding the Krogan? Or Rannoch? Or that they will have gigantic peace-loving Reapers in some scenarios but not in others? Everyone glowing green (including plants) or NOT glowing green? Shouldn't Synthesis affect gameplay/biotics on a deep level in case everyone is now part synthetic? There's no escaping ME3 endings if you're gonna visit old locations.

 Honestly, they could easily boil down all the ME3 choices to cosmetic results. Aesthetics on the setting. You chose synthesis....well everybody and everything has green organic circuitry, and you might see some Reapers roaming around in the distance minding their own. Control....there's some Reapers hanging around Mass Relays, minding their business. Destroy...theres no Geth. 

 

Not too hard. Though, I don't even think they'll go that route. As I said, nobody even knows if it's a sequel. 

 

I find it hard to believe that we won't see some familiar locales. I find it rather odd that some people actually expect that to happen. Sorry, but every single place we set foot on being a place that never appeared in the MEU before, is a massive stretch imo.

[Mcfly616]

 Either that or they thought they would be fine doing prequels/sidequels. But after ME3 came out it was clear it's not what the fans wanna see

 The fans don't know what's good for them until it's in their hands. I really hope Bioware doesn't try catering to the masses of online fanboys/girls trying to push their wishful thinking on the direction of the game.

 

 

 

"It’s not the job of the artist to give the audience what the audience wants.  If the audience knew what they needed, then they wouldn’t be the audience.  They would be the artists.  It is the job of artists to give the audience what they need." -Alan Moore

[shepskisaac]

Honestly, they could easily boil down all the ME3 choices to cosmetic results. Aesthetics on the setting. You chose synthesis....well everybody and everything has green organic circuitry, and you might see some Reapers roaming around in the distance minding their own. Control....there's some Reapers hanging around Mass Relays, minding their business. Destroy...theres no Geth.

Not too hard

But how is "cosmetic results" a good solution at all? Not to mention, while some things (like green skin) could potentially be reflected only cosmetically, Geth/Krogan choices from ME3 have far more reaching consequences - mainly, you couldn't have a single Geth or Krogan in a any role because of "no-Geth/Krogan" scenario having to exist as well, essentially either creating major replacement characters for all of them or modifying the multiple quests to write out the Geth/Krogan. So no, it ain't "not hard at all".

I find it rather odd that some people actually expect that to happen.

If it's not that then we're left with prequels, reboot or AU

[Quarian Master Race]

Prequels could be good, but only if there are no humans involved because there aren't enough interesting events of large scale in the lore during the 30 or so odd years they've been a part of the community. Ergo, it won't happen. Morning War era would be able to include almost every race but them, and would hypothetically be best. Either that or prothean cycle

ME:Next will almost certainly be a sequel, in the sense that it will occur after the Reapers. Of course, the setting will probably be completely different and make little allusion to the previous trilogy's events

For the record, I'd be fine if they canonized the destroy ending. The quarians rebuild the geth almost immediately because they wished to speed up the rebuilding process that the latter were helping with, or just because they can. Krogan are already explained in the lore to have adapted to the Genophage once by Mordin so they are still around regardless of your choices and the ending slides. Rachni survive....again, for potentially the 3rd time because they obviously can't be killed off.

People who chose galactic technosingularity rape or space dick-tater, or killed the quarians get to cry themselves to sleep over their ill advised choice and make butthurt threads on the forum. All is well

[Mcfly616]

But how is "cosmetic results" a good solution at all? Not to mention, while some things (like green skin) could potentially be reflected only cosmetically, Geth/Krogan choices from ME3 have far more reaching consequences - mainly, you couldn't have a single Geth or Krogan in a any role because of "no-Geth/Krogan" scenario having to exist as well, essentially either creating major replacement characters for all of them or modifying the multiple quests to write out the Geth/Krogan. So no, it ain't "not hard at all".
 

 

If it's not that then we're left with prequels, reboot or AU

 

 I never said cosmetic results were a "good solution". However, not going anywhere in the established MEU -as you suggest- is in no way a solution in any sense. Yes, it really 'is' not hard at all. Stories set in the established universe pre-ME3 (prequels), AU, reboot, canonizing an ME3 ending and moving forward, trivializing all the endings and simply saying we won the Reaper War, Shepard saved us all....moving forward. Take your pick. Implement it. Not hard.

[shepskisaac]

 I never said cosmetic results were a "good solution". However, not going anywhere in the established MEU -as you suggest- is in no way a solution in any sense. Yes, it really 'is' not hard at all. Stories set in the established universe pre-ME3 (prequels), AU, reboot, canonizing an ME3 ending and moving forward, trivializing all the endings and simply saying we won the Reaper War, Shepard saved us all....moving forward. Take your pick. Implement it. Not hard.

Between all these options, I would probably prefer just moving to Andromeda/Triangulum on an ark of some kind. Of course it's a cop-out like other options, of course it still disregards the endings in a way by escaping from them, but at least the "state" of the Milky Way galaxy (whichever state it is based on our choices) would technically be preserved and not overwritten.

[Mcfly616]

Between all these options, I would probably prefer just moving to Andromeda/Triangulum on an ark of some kind. Of course it's a cop-out like other options, of course it still disregards the endings in a way by escaping from them, but at least the "state" of the Milky Way galaxy (whichever state it is based on our choices) would technically be preserved and not overwritten.

 so, you want to avoid the MEU. Got it....

[shepskisaac]

 so, you want to avoid the MEU. Got it....

Mass Effect Universe doesn't start and end on just locations themselves. The races, their history, their quirks, architecture style, weapons, technology etc could all be preserved on a hypothetical bail-out ark and brought into different galaxy.

[Mcfly616]

Mass Effect Universe doesn't start and end on just locations themselves. The races, their history, their quirks, architecture style, weapons, technology etc could all be preserved on a hypothetical bail-out ark and brought into different galaxy.

 as of right now the MEU starts and ends with the Milky Way galaxy (home of the Mass Relay network). You're not preserving the fictional universe if you leave behind the setting entirely. 

[shepskisaac]

 as of right now the MEU starts and ends with the Milky Way galaxy (home of the Mass Relay network). You're not preserving the fictional universe if you leave behind the setting entirely. 

Setting is not the only part of any fictional universe

[Drone223]

Setting is not the only part of any fictional universe

The setting how ever does help define the universe.

[shepskisaac]

The setting how ever does help define the universe.

No one is saying it doesn't, the point is that it's not the only part. Lore, timeline, stories, characters, fashion, architecture, style, techology etc are just as important parts. Whichever direction they take with ME4, something WILL be sacrificed. If it's a reboot/AU then most (if not all) timeline and established stories that built the universe will be thrown out of the window. If it's totally new regions of the Milky Way or different galaxy all-together then most if not all old locations will be 'sacrificed'. If it's a sequel with canon or railroaded ending then we will have biggest choices the franchise had sacrificed.

 

It boils down to a question what is everyone more willing to 'give up', locations or established timeline/events.  Or we're going with prequels/sidequels. There's not that many ways out of this situation and I don't see any being perfect and requiring no tough design choices

[Drone223]

No one is saying it doesn't, the point is that it's not the only part. Lore, timeline, stories, characters, fashion, architecture, style, techology etc are just as important parts. Whichever direction they take with ME4, something WILL be sacrificed. If it's a reboot/AU then most (if not all) timeline and established stories that built the universe will be thrown out of the window. If it's totally new regions of the Milky Way or different galaxy all-together then most if not all old locations will be 'sacrificed'. If it's a sequel with canon or railroaded ending then we will have biggest choices the franchise had sacrificed.

 

It boils down to a question what is everyone more willing to 'give up', locations or established timeline/events.  Or we're going with prequels/sidequels. There's not that many ways out of this situation and I don't see any being perfect and requiring no tough design choices

Thing is buy ditching the MW altogether you defeat the purpose of saving it in the first place, you may as well make refuse canon. Why go to all that effort to make an interesting setting only to ditch it after three games and never return it'll just be wasted potential. No one is saying that the next few games should take place in the same locations as the trilogy but at some point in the franchise they should at least return to them since some of them (most notably the citadel and omega) are iconic places in the franchise.

[shepskisaac]

Thing is buy ditching the MW altogether you defeat the purpose of saving it in the first place, you may as well make refuse canon. Why go to all that effort to make an interesting setting only to ditch it after three games and never return it'll just be wasted potential. No one is saying that the next few games should take place in the same locations as the trilogy but at some point in the franchise they should at least return to them since some of them (most notably the citadel and omega) are iconic places in the franchise.

I understand all of that, but it doesn't the the fact that revisiting old locations without rebooting/canonizing presents huge design challenge of reflecting player choices and doing it well. Half-assing it would just make it all worse, while doing it well would require significant time and resources. These are not "1 person died" consequences, we're talking galaxy-shaping decisions that should have major lasting consequences visible on every affected world. I just don't think they want to deal with it, escaping the ME3 baggage one way or another (reboot, prequel, AU, ark, unexplored regions of MW) seems like 1 thing that's almost granted IMO

[Drone223]

I understand all of that, but it doesn't the the fact that revisiting old locations without rebooting/canonizing presents huge design challenge of reflecting player choices and doing it well. Half-assing it would just make it all worse, while doing it well would require significant time and resources. These are not "1 person died" consequences, we're talking galaxy-shaping decisions that should have major lasting consequences visible on every affected world. I just don't think they want to deal with it, escaping the ME3 baggage one way or another (reboot, prequel, AU, ark, unexplored regions of MW) seems like 1 thing that's almost granted IMO

Trying to write around the endings is no better as sooner or later they'll have to deal with them. They should just pick one ending make it canon (destroy) and go forward from there as it and Udina being councilor will be only choices made canon. Rachni, genophage and geth can be dealt with by having something like DA: keep and have minor quest revolve around them depending on what choices were made. Its not the most ideal choice but it gives Bioware something to work with and saves the trouble of having to do everything from scratch.

[SNascimento]

There is no way it will be a prequel. I'm hoping something that feels like a reboot, a fresh start. 

[shepskisaac]

They should just pick one ending make it canon (destroy) and go forward from there as it

And if they pick 1 ending and it's Synthesis? Or heck, Refuse lol? You wouldn't be so keen on the idea then. Also, having just minor quests about Geth/Krogan would be repeating the same mistakes original Trilogy did with choices & consequences.