273 réponses à ce sujet

[shepskisaac]

Or I suppose there's Ark Theory, but in that case you might as well make it AU anyway. 

AU would close the door for any connection with the original universe. Keeping it in the same one while switching galaxies allows limited but potentially interesting story possibilities. Star Trek did it in a way, they didn't just create a parrarel timeline and assured the fans that the original one is still canon, they used original Spock from the original timeline and utilized him into the movie's time travel story. Ark solution could give us stories about people/factions desiring to go back to the Milky Way, we could have QEC cameos and stuff.

[Drone223]

AU would close the door for any connection with the original universe. Keeping it in the same one while switching galaxies allows limited but potentially interesting story possibilities. Star Trek did it in a way, they didn't just create a parrarel timeline and assured the fans that the original one is still canon, they used original Spock from the original timeline and utilized him into the movie's time travel story. Ark solution could give us stories about people/factions desiring to go back to the Milky Way, we could have QEC cameos and stuff.

There is no need to leave the galaxy forever 98% of the milky way is unexplored there is still a lot of stoires to tell.

[Iakus]

The reaper threat would be a historical event like the rachni wars and the Krogan rebellion. The end of the reapers won't mean the end of all wars there will always be another conflict waiting to happen be it on a personal scale or between the citadel races and the terminus systems.

 

The Reapers are still around in Blue and Green.  Green also has everyone's genetic identity rewritten.

 

Then with Destroy, in addition to it's more obvious effect, there's the low EMS possibility, which really fraks up the galaxy.

 

Then there's refuse.  Unless that really was Bioware just trolling the fan base.

[Iakus]

AU would close the door for any connection with the original universe. Keeping it in the same one while switching galaxies allows limited but potentially interesting story possibilities. Star Trek did it in a way, they didn't just create a parrarel timeline and assured the fans that the original one is still canon, they used original Spock from the original timeline and utilized him into the movie's time travel story. Ark solution could give us stories about people/factions desiring to go back to the Milky Way, we could have QEC cameos and stuff.

 

Like I said, Ark Theory would be Bioware tacitly admitting that they screwed up so badly they can't salvage the original setting.  There was so much baggage and and divergence a coherent story in the Milky Way is no longer possible.

 

Which would be a shame since as Drone223 pointed out, the vast majority of the galaxy hadn't even been explored yet.  And we as Shepard only explored a tiny portion of what was known.

[Drone223]

The Reapers are still around in Blue and Green.  Green also has everyone's genetic identity rewritten.
 
Then with Destroy, in addition to it's more obvious effect, there's the low EMS possibility, which really fraks up the galaxy.
 
Then there's refuse.  Unless that really was Bioware just trolling the fan base.

Well picking a canon ending while not ideal is the best way to go forward with the franchise. Given how synthesis is the least popular of the endings I doubt bioware will go down that path. Destroy is probably the best ending to go with since it only affects the reaper's, issues such as the geth and genophage can be dealt with by making something DA: keep and have side quest based on what choices the players picked.

[EliotNesss]

I personally want a sequel. Far into the future. Where ME1-3 live on only as old legends, stories, fables and unsolved mysteries. And Mass Effect 3 laid a perfect segue to that sequel at the ending scene between the old guy and the kid. When he told her the Shepard story was from a very long time ago.

But I would also love to see some parallel off shoot ME adventures during the tumultuous Shepard times, right after the conclusion of the Reaper Wars. The EDI and Joker saga could be explored from a synthesis standpoint. A Miranda, Clone Shepard reunion and new set of adventures would be awesome. After all, she did bring the original Shepard back to life. Liara T'soni could also play a big part in that kind of series too. Especially if she was your love interest in the ME canon trilogy. She could be carrying the real Shepard's kid!

 

BTW: I thought Destroy was actually the worst outcome to canonize. Because it left everything open to just repeating itself all over again, ad nauseum. It would have left a lurking Leviathan in the dominant position to become "Godlike". I personally like Blue or Green. Because they left open more possibilities for very creative storytelling with spectacular plot twists. Because Leviathan would always be a threat to corrupt and undermine any steady state. And even leave open the possible emergence of a more powerful threat from beyond. Green seemed "Borg" like. But really wasn't if you think it through. The Geth and EDI had already started to evolve beyond the potential of pure Synthesis. And Leviathan was beyond the effect. There's much more meat on those bones IMO.

[KaeserZen]

I have a lot of trouble picturing them pulling an elegant sequel based on what happened to the trilogy.

 

Like many have mentionned, if BioWare made a sequel, the two most likely options are :

1) Pick a canon, which would upset many fans of the series. Ultimately BW owns the IP and could do whatever they wanted with it, but the ME3 debacle really showed us that they must work with the fans to not tarnish the company's image.

2) Make all the major decisions in ME3 irrelevant by putting in their own continuity. This could work but hard to swallow for many fans, because they went from choice based gameplay in ME and ME2 to consequence based gameplay in 3. Whether you chose to kill or free the Rachni Queen in 1 was irrelevant for the story's main continuity : you'd still face and beat saren and sovereign. The enjoyment was in making the choice, feeling powerful in doing that, and giving your own flavour to your own playthrough.

 

That worked because most of the choices you made were a side gig compared to what was really going on and what you were about to do. I can see them having trouble side gigging the Reaper War, or Control, or Destroy or synthesis.

They could still do that, but the amount of contrieved sauce would be off the charts !

 

Which is why I think the most simple approach to making NME appealing to everybody is to keep the core elements we came to know and love (FTL, council species, alien sideboobs and lots of feels... and a spaceship with a French Beach name obviously) because that is what defines the Mass Effect experience and make it a complete standalone to the storyline of ME3.

And by standalone I mean having utterly NOTHING to do with the continuity of the trilogy's main arc. Like someone said, the scope of the main arc was so epic and so encompassing that it makes every other story of any other protagonist irrelevant in the grand scheme of the ME trilogy timeline. Which is not what you want when you want to have player agenda.

 

How can NME have nothing to do ?

- Alternate Timeline : not before or after on the same timeline, but a completely different universe. That means writing out the Reapers and the characters and finding a while new story arc to explore.

- Alternate Reality : as evidenced by the stargazer scene post credit, the shepard story could very well be a fairy tale within another ME universe (but why a grampa would talk about human intercourse to a young minor makes no sense and is quite creepy ). Or the infamous suggestion that ME2+3 were an unconscious dream by shepard when he got rubbled in ME1 (to illustrate)

- Alternate location : in order to make any event in the Milky Way have virtually no consequence, or be of anecdotical impact to the plot of NME.

 

These 3 ways are the only ones I can see working elegantly.

[Iakus]

 

- Alternate Reality : as evidenced by the stargazer scene post credit, the shepard story could very well be a fairy tale within another ME universe (but why a grampa would talk about human intercourse to a young minor makes no sense and is quite creepy ). Or the infamous suggestion that ME2+3 were an unconscious dream by shepard when he got rubbled in  

 

Codex Entry: Commander Shepard "The First Human Spectre" is a fictional character and the subject of several interactive films published by Tethras Enterprises. These films were wildly popular due at least in part to the player being able to customize Shepard, from gender to appearance. Shepard could even have romances with several of the colorful cast of characters. The viewer was able to experience the adventures using Shepard as an avatar, making choices for Shepard and customizing the story to suit individual tastes

 

Over its five year run, numerous adventures where made available for Shepard's fans to experience. Though the central plot involved foiling the "Reapers" a mythological race of sentient AIs the films credited for the extinction of the Protheans.

 

Shepard's run ended with the so-called "Shepard Incident". The conclusion of the final film was considered so controversial that it caused an unprecedented uproar which even a rereleased ending could not quell.

 

Currently Tethras Enterprises has no plans to bring back Shepard for other stories. However, they are looking into the licensing Blasto for a new series.

 

The entire trilogy was a story in a story 

[Guanxii]

I don't want either. Just consider it the start of a new canon and call it a day.

 

If it must ever be brought up again; Shepard, his crew and story should be long dead history bordering on myth - the details of which have largely faded from collective memory. The classic races will have all survived into the new era - however only living Asari and Krogan and Geth remember the Reapers, augmentation is as commonplace as Deus Ex and the Geth are just like any other council civilization.

 

Fanbois like myself can then speculate endlessly till the cows come home about whether or not synthesis actually happened, how the Geth might have survived Destroy and whether or not the Reapers/Shep AI are actually truly gone/cycle-ended - But we really shouldn't care. Irrelevant. No point getting all flustered over minor background details related to the previous story from a different studio.

[shepskisaac]

Like I said, Ark Theory would be Bioware tacitly admitting that they screwed up so badly they can't salvage the original setting.

So is every other solution except for 'facing' the endings and incorporating their consequences directly. KaeserZen summed it up nicely

[Winterking]

Well picking a canon ending while not ideal is the best way to go forward with the franchise. Given how synthesis is the least popular of the endings I doubt bioware will go down that path. Destroy is probably the best ending to go with since it only affects the reaper's, issues such as the geth and genophage can be dealt with by making something DA: keep and have side quest based on what choices the players picked.

Low EMS Destroy, Refuse and Synthesis are problematic but I don't see Control and Destroy to be that divergent in the Next Mass Effect IMO.

 

If the next game takes place sometime after the Shepard trilogy, Control and Destroy can easily be worked through codex entries and with some references from NPCs. In Destroy there are no Reapers and in Control the Reapers have retreated into dark space to conserve energy after they helped rebuilding the Mass Relays. 

[Iakus]

So is every other solution except for 'facing' the endings and incorporating their consequences directly. KaeserZen summed it up nicely

 

Well, the endings did screw things up so badly that I don't think it can be salvaged.  But Ark Theory would be pretending otherwise.  AU without really being AU.  Me, I think it would be best to simply own up to the mistakes and start fresh.

 

 

 

Well picking a canon ending while not ideal is the best way to go forward with the franchise. Given how synthesis is the least popular of the endings I doubt bioware will go down that path. Destroy is probably the best ending to go with since it only affects the reaper's, issues such as the geth and genophage can be dealt with by making something DA: keep and have side quest based on what choices the players picked.

 

Canonizing anything will cause a fecal storm to rival that of the ending controversy.  Ever since ME2, Bioware has always toed the line of "there is no canon".  To go back on that would, imo, be worse than Ark Theory.

 

Seriously, people grumbled at autodialogue and Shepard feeling like he/she is not really their character?  Imagine finding out the entire trilogy has been "action moded" out from under you.

[Guanxii]

Well, the endings did screw things up so badly that I don't think it can be salvaged.  But Ark Theory would be pretending otherwise.  AU without really being AU.  Me, I think it would be best to simply own up to the mistakes and start fresh.

 

 

 

 

Canonizing anything will cause a fecal storm to rival that of the ending controversy.  Ever since ME2, Bioware has always toed the line of "there is no canon".  To go back on that would, imo, be worse than Ark Theory.

 

Seriously, people grumbled at autodialogue and Shepard feeling like he/she is not really their character?  Imagine finding out the entire trilogy has been "action moded" out from under you.

 

Moving the series to another galaxy would be BioWare admitting defeat to the unwashed masses of the internet. Canonizing RGB would be a slap in face, worst than unnecessary it would kill all the fun guesswork and speculation from everyone! Leave the setting ambiguous and open to interpretation and the internet will come up with a better explanation than BioWare. Not that there need be an explanation.

 

In time the importance of the previous trilogy's surrounding background details will fade away into insignificance with or without explanation. Sooner or later you just have to accept the present details as they are. Addressing the RGB issue head on would ignite old hurt and might do more harm than good. Might be better to have the good grace to honor our choices and just leave well enough alone by leaving these details up to us to fill in the blanks.

[Vazgen]

You know, I can get behind that action movie scenario Considering how the series slowly turned somewhat similar to action movies with time. It also acknowledges player decisions and has a potential to bring back "familiar faces". It's probably the easiest scenario for them

[KaeserZen]

The entire trilogy was a story in a story 

 

 

So is every other solution except for 'facing' the endings and incorporating their consequences directly. KaeserZen summed it up nicely

 

You guys summed it up ! The main difficulty is how to deal with the ME3 universe with the vastly different outcomes of the choices in ME3. An elegant solution would be to not think about them at all, but I don't really think that it is going to be that way. I think we can find direct clues from this video :

 

 

What Buzz Aldrin says to the Kid feels eerily similar to the base concept elements and leaks we have about ME4 : exploration oriented, new lifeforms to discover, etc.

 

BioWare have set themselves difficult challenges for a sequel in ME3 :

1) Having vastly different galactic scale choices. ME had the same ending for everyone - stopping sovereign through force and bravery and choosing the council was a a flavour choice. ME2 had the same ending for everyone - defeat the Collectors through force and bravery and what to do with the base is a flavour choice. On the other hand, the RGB have polar opposite consequences both in how you end the Reaper threat and how the galaxy is shaped after that.

2) The outcomes of your decisions in Act 1 & 2 are and can be galaxy changing. Are the Krogans cured or do they die out ? Are either the Quarians/Geth alive and at peace or is one species dead ?

 

The solutions to these problems will largely be :

1) Choose a color as the ending that was intended.

2) We know the Krogans will still be there based on the trailer. They can define the Krogans so their presence and the state of their existence is explained no matter what the player chose to do in ME3. Much like the Arrival DLC : If the player doesn't blow it up, some obscure Alliance Black Ops team will have, ensuring it has happened.

 

Now, for my own personal predictions about the setting of ME4 !

 

Spoiler

1) It will be set at least 150 years after ME3 in the Milky Way, but most likely a few hundred years !

 

2) The protagonist will be the little kid Buzz Aldrin talks to

 

3) The story will revolve around a lambda explorer that gets caught into something bigger than him (refering to the interview of the new lead writer on the BW blog)

 

4) High Ems Destroy will be the canon ending. Destroy is the only option available for lower ems playthroughs and high ems gives the shepard lives ending. To me that means that that was the story they wanted to deliver to everyone (Reapers were destroyed) regardless of the value o the Ems. Having Reapers around makes it also very hard for proper conflict to arise especially if controlled by shepgod. Finally, synthesis seems out of the question when looking at the maskless pictures of the protagonist. He doesn't seem to be glowy green !

 

5) Krogans will not have been extinguished, whether shep cured them or another cure was found after the sabotage doesn't really matter. Alternatively, over the course of a few hundred years, the genophage started again in the case they were cured or the sabotage worked.

 

6) Quarians and Geth will be both wiped out during that timeframe. (Geth because of destroyed or lack of peace, Quarians either because peace couldn't be brokered or slowly died out after coming back to Rannoch). While this solution will outrage most of the playthroughs who brought peace to them, having both species wiped out is the common denominator between all 4 options on the matrix (Quarians Alive/Dead + Geth Alive/Dead). Because a species that is alive can get dead, while a dead species can't get alive

Please note that this assumption is based off the idea that Red Beam kills every synthetic. I don't know what to do with "the survivors should be able to rebuild without much effort". Does it apply to AIs too ? If yes, then I can see the case for both Quarians and Geth living !

 

Like everyone on this forum, I'm probably very wrong and it will probably ****** off many fans if it happened. But if BioWare makes a sequel, they must unfortunately make choices and I hope they make simple, sensible ones ^^

[StealthGamer92]

Why is everyone so sure the green glow would be permanent? It could easily be a temporary side effect of the body adjusting to the change couldn't it?

[Mcfly616]

Why is everyone so sure the green glow would be permanent? It could easily be a temporary side effect of the body adjusting to the change couldn't it?

 it's essentially organic circuitry (a concept seen in a great deal of modern sci-fi literature). I'm not so sure the visibility of it wouldn't be permanent. Who knows about the greeness of it though....

[StealthGamer92]

I know what it is, just not how people who play a game with giant tremor-like fungi(thresher maw) are so oposed to the idea the green glow might either be invisible to the naked eye or fade over time.

[Drone223]

Canonizing anything will cause a fecal storm to rival that of the ending controversy.  Ever since ME2, Bioware has always toed the line of "there is no canon".  To go back on that would, imo, be worse than Ark Theory.

 

Seriously, people grumbled at autodialogue and Shepard feeling like he/she is not really their character?  Imagine finding out the entire trilogy has been "action moded" out from under you.

While a "non canon" policy is nice its rather unrealistic and sooner or later a small amount of choices will need to be made canon because it'll just cause problems later on. No matter what they do people will be upset so they may as well get it over with and they already made Udina the canon councilor so I won't be surprised if they do it with the endings.

[wolfhowwl]

Well, the endings did screw things up so badly that I don't think it can be salvaged.  But Ark Theory would be pretending otherwise.  AU without really being AU.  Me, I think it would be best to simply own up to the mistakes and start fresh.

 

Canonizing anything will cause a fecal storm to rival that of the ending controversy.  Ever since ME2, Bioware has always toed the line of "there is no canon".  To go back on that would, imo, be worse than Ark Theory.

 

Seriously, people grumbled at autodialogue and Shepard feeling like he/she is not really their character?  Imagine finding out the entire trilogy has been "action moded" out from under you.

 

They can be salvaged easily. Confront the problem and deal with it. You simply decide on a canon ending, destroy is the easy choice, and move forward with a sequel.

 

Make a good game that shows why people should like this setting and the ending is now the shitty thing that happened between ME3 and ME4 that only forum diehards still care about instead of a shadow hanging over the franchise that you refuse to deal with or run away from with an AU or an ark.

 

As for choices, well people can still kill the Quarians and betray the Krogans in their trilogies but keeping the involvement of key species in the setting is important, more important than coddling the feelings of any fans that would actually not buy the next game because their genocide wasn't carried forward.

[Iakus]

While a "non canon" policy is nice its rather unrealistic and sooner or later a small amount of choices will need to be made canon because it'll just cause problems later on. No matter what they do people will be upset so they may as well get it over with and they already made Udina the canon councilor so I won't be surprised if they do it with the endings.

 

Realistic or not, it is something they have championed for years.  And making Udina the canon Councilor already caused a stir (though it was swallowed up by...other concerns...)

 

ANd yes, the fact that it was unrealistic is a reason to simply abandon save imports.  But going back on the promise not to canonize things would be kicking a hornet's nest at exactly the wrong time.

They can be salvaged easily. Confront the problem and deal with it. You simply decide on a canon ending, destroy is the easy choice, and move forward with a sequel.

 

Make a good game that shows why people should like this setting and the ending is now the shitty thing that happened between ME3 and ME4 that only forum diehards still care about instead of a shadow hanging over the franchise that you refuse to deal with or run away from with an AU or an ark.

 

As for choices, well people can still kill the Quarians and betray the Krogans in their trilogies but keeping the involvement of key species in the setting is important, more important than coddling the feelings of any fans that would actually not buy the next game because their genocide wasn't carried forward.

 

The endings were such a big deal they were making mainstream news.  It is a shadow hanging over the franchise.  Believe me, "What about the endings?" is going to be at the forefront of people's minds once MENext gets a real announcement.

 

Saying "Nothing is canon except the stuff we want to be"  is not a good foundation to rebuild player trust.  If it's too cumbersome to accommodate the choices (as I believe it is)  better to clear everything and start over.

 

 After all, isn't that "more important than coddling the feelings of any fans that would actually not buy the game because their genocide wasn't carried forward"?    Keeping in mind that the Red ending, by far the most popular, does involve unavoidable genocide.

[Drone223]

Realistic or not, it is something they have championed for years.  And making Udina the canon Councilor already caused a stir (though it was swallowed up by...other concerns...)
 
ANd yes, the fact that it was unrealistic is a reason to simply abandon save imports.  But going back on the promise not to canonize things would be kicking a hornet's nest at exactly the wrong time.

What they do will make people upset regardless so it's better to get it over and done with, making one or two choices canon that results in a good story is a fair compromise and they'll have to do something about the endings eventually.

[GalacticWolf5]

Destroy is the only option available for lower ems playthroughs and high ems gives the shepard lives ending. To me that means that that was the story they wanted to deliver to everyone (Reapers were destroyed) regardless of the value of ems.

Wrong. Players who chose to keep the Collector Base in ME2 and have low EMS only get Control.

[Heimdall]

Like I said, Ark Theory would be Bioware tacitly admitting that they screwed up so badly they can't salvage the original setting.  There was so much baggage and and divergence a coherent story in the Milky Way is no longer possible.

 

Which would be a shame since as Drone223 pointed out, the vast majority of the galaxy hadn't even been explored yet.  And we as Shepard only explored a tiny portion of what was known.

They didn't "screw up" atleast not that way.  ME3's endings were meant to be wildly divergent because they didn't have an inkling they'd be making another Mass Effect game at the time.  A coherent sequel story not being possible in the Milky Way isn't a strike against the developer given that.

[EliotNesss]

In Destroy there are no Reapers. But there are Leviathan who made them. Who is so dominant without the Reapers, that they can control everything else. In Control there is still Leviathan. That may be able to control or influence Shepard and others since his encounter with it. In Synthesis there is still Leviathan that stands outside of the control of Reapers or Shepard. That could very well create a totally new Anti Synthesis reality since Shepard has closed that loop with Catalyst. IMO Leviathan (unresolved in all endings) and the Stargazer video loop are the keys to anything done as a sequel.